Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Also there is likely 1-2 VTs in this setup (the thought of it being a Role Madness one + The possibility of there being a Nea), so if there's a New they can give us an IC or two.

[Cliff Booth]

role madness means no vanillas right? or does it just mean only a small amount of vanillas?

[Cliff Booth]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

Yeah but from my perspective lets just say there are zero vanillas in the game and no one knows that as a fact. In fact, for the sake of this thought process, assume it hasn't even been talked about at all and assume the neapolitan assumes a "standard" ratio of VT to PR exists. If that neapolitan is targeting his scumreads then he is more likely to think that they are scum than PR when they come back as "not vanilla", right?

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

Like unless I am missing something there is literally NO benefit to a neapolitan in a game with no vanillas, in which case the above logic makes me believe it would be negative town utility.

[Cliff Booth]

Assuming my above logic checks out with the players in this game that are smarter than me (even if I'm one of their uncles) then that begs the question, why would a role be put into the game that has negative town utility due to their relation to the rest of the roles? Would this be to balance an underwhelming number/power of scum?

[Cliff Booth]

Also I want to make this abundantly clear. I don't want anyone to come out and claim VT as a result from this. I don't think that would be beneficial to this situation from my understanding.

[Garmr]

The only good thing about everyone declaring their role is we can figur eout who's town in all this through mechanic analysis.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

Yeah but from my perspective lets just say there are zero vanillas in the game and no one knows that as a fact. In fact, for the sake of this thought process, assume it hasn't even been talked about at all and assume the neapolitan assumes a "standard" ratio of VT to PR exists. If that neapolitan is targeting his scumreads then he is more likely to think that they are scum than PR when they come back as "not vanilla", right?

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

Like unless I am missing something there is literally NO benefit to a neapolitan in a game with no vanillas, in which case the above logic makes me believe it would be negative town utility.

Mate.. Neapolitan is never used in a -say- 50% VT game. That would be damn too powerful. You can literally confirm half of the players. Maybe a Vanilla Cop instead (gets the same result for VTs and Goons)

Neapolitan automatically means 0-2 VTs in this game.

Now consider 0. Why is it "negative". Nea becomes effectively a Visitor. Results don't matter because everyone's a PR, but still no harm done.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

If Nea doesn't expose their reason they're no different than anyone else advocating a lynch on someone they view as scummy. If they do state their reason people will tell them they are wrong and the result they got only means the target is not Vanilla Town.

[Cliff Booth]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

the term you're looking for is

USELESS

. Negative Utility HARMS the Town, and Nea -albeit useless- does NOT hurt the town. It doesn't give us false results. It doesn't prevent other TPRs from doing their job. It doesn't result in extra kills. So, no.. Nea is NOT a Negative Utility.

Yeah but from my perspective lets just say there are zero vanillas in the game and no one knows that as a fact. In fact, for the sake of this thought process, assume it hasn't even been talked about at all and assume the neapolitan assumes a "standard" ratio of VT to PR exists. If that neapolitan is targeting his scumreads then he is more likely to think that they are scum than PR when they come back as "not vanilla", right?

So if there are no vanillas in the game and the neapolitan is using his power in this way then isn't he more likely to advocate for potential mislynches, especially if he doesn't publicly disclose WHY he thinks his target is scummy?

Like unless I am missing something there is literally NO benefit to a neapolitan in a game with no vanillas, in which case the above logic makes me believe it would be negative town utility.

Mate.. Neapolitan is never used in a -say- 50% VT game. That would be damn too powerful. You can literally confirm half of the players. Maybe a Vanilla Cop instead (gets the same result for VTs and Goons)

Neapolitan automatically means 0-2 VTs in this game.

Now consider 0. Why is it "negative". Nea becomes effectively a Visitor. Results don't matter because everyone's a PR, but still no harm done.

nea is run in newbie games in setups with 5/9 players being VT

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

That's a bit different. It used to be a full Cop, and that was even more powerful in a 9-players setup. Nea can check for VTs only so basically won't confirm the other TPR (I assume that would be a Doctor?).

But imagine a setup with 17 players and like 7 of then being VTs, and then the Nea was lucky enough to confirm 3 of them in the opening 3 nights!! That is why a VC is used instead, as that would not confirm anyone's alignment.. just that they have no special powers.

Again.. in Newbie games it used to be a full Cop.. so confirms the alignment of everyone. Nea instead only confirms the alignment of VTs so no explicit guilty on scum and no confirming the other TPR.

[Rick Dalton]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

Not if there actually is a Vanilla and you find it.

Actually if somebody is a Vanilla Townie, they should claim it.

That way, Cliff can check them, and they can become conf town.

[Tchill13]

TChill, can you tell me why you're being Wagoned? No one else has volunteered to tell me.

basically because im not being active.

[Tchill13]

the fact no one will tell you tells you a lot.

[Tchill13]

nobody knows whats going on, a few active townies want to lynch me because im inactive and they want to "feel" like they're doing something good and then scum dont mind that push.

that is why im being wagoned.

[Tchill13]

VC 2.1

Tchill13 - (7):

- gobbledygook, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, Cliff Booth, Titus, Hectic, Garmr

bob4131 - (2):

- profii, Alonzo

Garmr - (1):

texcat

Hopkirk - (1):

AaronFrost

Not Voting:

Kop, Rick Dalton, Hectic, EeveeLution Army, Judge Joseph Dredd, Carcalilly, davesaz, bob3141

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-10 05:35:11)

id say theres at least on scum on me atm. maybe 2.

hop and cliff is where id look first.

more so hop.

billy is prob town thats just going with the flow. idk about the rest.

[EeveeLution Army]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

Not if there actually is a Vanilla and you find it.

Actually if somebody is a Vanilla Townie, they should claim it.

That way, Cliff can check them, and they can become conf town.

This seems somewhat pointless. There are way too many variables for you to assume this

[Tchill13]

TCHILL get your ass here with an excuse that better please the gods

tf do you want me to say?

Particularly, I want you to explain:

1. Why you seem to be putting 0 effort in solving the game
2. Why you're constantly lurking (even if you're just busy you could at least tell us all)
3. Why you don't bother to back up any of your statements

your presence in this game became a strange kind of downwards spiral

1. most of the content has been NAI, a lot of claim/ fake claim stupid stuff not worth rehashing.

2. im not constantly lurking. I've made it a point to only check on games im in once or twice a day. (I worry about mafiascum too much)

3. I dont feel the need to atm. This feels like d1 still. Any reasoning provided for anything has been pretty weak. I'm not gonna conjure up some weak BS to appease ppl.

[EeveeLution Army]

I kinda wanna push titus but i dont have any particular reason to

Has he claimed anything real yet.

[Tchill13]

@Rick Dalton

Do you not think that a neapolitan basically has negative town utility in a role madness game? Specifically in a game that no one knows is role madness?

Not if there actually is a Vanilla and you find it.

Actually if somebody is a Vanilla Townie, they should claim it.

That way, Cliff can check them, and they can become conf town.

This seems somewhat pointless. There are way too many variables for you to assume this

thats the kinda statement i expect from !scum rick

[EeveeLution Army]

VC 2.1

Tchill13 - (7):

- gobbledygook, Billy Pilgrim, Hopkirk, Cliff Booth, Titus, Hectic, Garmr

bob4131 - (2):

- profii, Alonzo

Garmr - (1):

texcat

Hopkirk - (1):

AaronFrost

Not Voting:

Kop, Rick Dalton, Hectic, EeveeLution Army, Judge Joseph Dredd, Carcalilly, davesaz, bob3141

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-10 05:35:11)

id say theres at least on scum on me atm. maybe 2.

hop and cliff is where id look first.

more so hop.

billy is prob town thats just going with the flow. idk about the rest.

What do you think of the sidewagon on bob?

[Tchill13]

its only got 2 votes. hardly exist.

I like profii for town though so im glad to see him there.

[EeveeLution Army]

Hm. I need a third person on my never lynch list. I lost gamma

[Tchill13]

profii should be there if he isnt.

[EeveeLution Army]

Make your case why he should be imo