Micro 891 - Death List (Game Over)

[Azuresky]

I went back to ISO Locke and Hectic together cause I thought there was something odd from yesterday.

While not as bad as I thought it was, I think its kinda odd that Hectic accuses me of “tunneling” after Locke brings it up first. From Hectics ISO, he does say Im basing my scumread on him way too much on his number, but doesnt call it tunneling until brought up fron Locke. Theres also some werid associations (Buddying)from Locke when talking about Hectic (its fluff, but still)

Theres also a load of Hectic AtE here, which Im not a fan of.

——————————-

I know activity is NaI, but I see Dongs replace out as a towntell, he was obviously apathetic. I feel given the gamestate, he could have stayed in as mafia and flake around, but then he was getting pointed out for is hypocracy, so idk.

—————————

I guess Dunn did do stuff. Oh. Still want some reads from him.

—————-

We need MaRia to come back, same for Nymph.

————————

I still read Pops as an innocent soul. I dont like the buddying from her, but maybe cause Im not used to people townreading me this early. The confusion over 1 vs 3 shuffles seems like a town miscue, no?

[Locke113]

Spoiler: page9

weird gambit for scum to fake confusion at something that can be so easily discredited
unless she's doing it to get town points for acting confused
leaning towards the former though
seems genuine
especially with the whole spotting it but not expanding until she gets home from work thing

I mean the spotting it and not expanding til later is a trick I have def seen scum pull before, they just never actually expand upon it later, theres always something that they have to do first.

lul but the mafia get example town PMs sent to them
hence the if you're mafia real PM sent later part (paraphrasing)
so point is moot
unlucky

I think you forgot about that yourself. I think you forgot about the fake town pm since you got another one afterwards.

You didnt know this was vanilla. You fakeclaimed dayvig, which I assumed was a joke, but you said you were shocked to see people ignore it. You thought there was prs for town, which can exists in games with 2 mafia (goons).

You are scum, you are gambiting for the top spot, you forgot the setup, hence why you were setting up crumbs for later to pile on towncred with the fact you wanted the top spot, because you know that people wont immediately skip. You would be safe for a bit, its a smart plan.

Problem is, its a plan I would do myself as scum, so I can see the motivation for this as a scumplay.

Why is forgetting the format a scummy thing to do? Silly/stupid I understand but using it as part of your reasoning for someone being scum seems questionable at best

[Locke113]

Spoiler: page 10

VOTE: SKIP

Some reasoning would be appreciated.

1) You say [HALF] splits the list bigger/smaller for odd numbers, but it seems to be split smaller/bigger in your example, am I misunderstanding?
2) In the case of an odd list, does [PAIR] ignore the middle number?
3) In the case of an odd list, does [LAYER] ignore the middle number?

1) I could've sworn I fixed it but it wasn't. Fixed.
2, 3) Yes.

Much appreciated.

Top of #18: I do see Hectic getting defensive from this, cause again, it should be common sense to everyone that town will shuffle once, right? How boring would it be to SKIP right away? Right Hectic? Do I have it right?

Hmm that does feel a tad defensive, especially considering his quirky persona. Not over the top or as bad as the worst I've seen but good catch

This is all bullshit.

You wanna say its Null for number speculation, which is fine when you have generic numbers like 4 and 6 and 12, but Hectics number is different. He WANTED the top, a number like 9x10^999 is so over the top its balatant.

Do you really believe Hectics number is NaI? Your defense of the man to call this tunneling is noted.

Yes I do believe that the number is NaI, I don't believe it is a fruitful avenue to go down to try to determine an alignment specific reasoning for someone's number in this game. The number itself might have been picked for a reason but I don't think it would be for any deep ingame strategy. Also lol I'm less defending Hectic and more attacking you, I consider your reasoning mostly shoddy and so here I am, calling it shoddy

huh
this tunnelling is weird
can barely see you in the dark in there
might have to confiscate your pickaxes
why is scum more likely to forget about the game being all vanilla?
both factions get the same town PM
and you think that kind of thing wouldn't come up in the scum PT?
about setup spec regarding the game being all vanilla?
really?

would go for the top spot regardless of alignment
that's NAI

Why would scum bother with setup speculation in an all vanilla setup? what even is there to speculate?

This feels like a weird progression, pushing a scumread more then unvoting, I can think of a town reason for it but I'm curious to hear from you, whats your reasoning for this?

I think there's more to focus on than just getting somebody lynched with the votes today and I want to figure the progression of 3 shuffles before I vote for the first one

Figured that was probably the case

how about crumbing VT?
would i not discuss with my scummate before doing that?
would my scummate not remind me the game isn't mountainous

Im guessing you're talking about your big chart? regardless, lol @crumbing vt

Idk, would you? Id guess no.

Probably? Maybe its Dong who dont give a fuck, Maybe its Dunn who doesn't know? Maybe... Its me and this is a scummy-nominated bus?

I'm going be honest if turned out this was SvS Hectic v Azure, my mind would probably implode

Yeah scum is the faction that lies. And I can tell the difference from when you're lying for memes and when you're lying to play in bad faith for strategic advantage.

VOTE: Skip

Curious since this is my first game with Hectic, how do you tell the difference? is it more of a feeling or is there a proper method to it?

Spoiler: repeatedly requested Azuresky towncase

For The record, as long as Im alive, I will try to provide everyone with what the action will lead to help with scumhunting. If you want to know how to lynch someone, I will let you know:

For Now: 3 Shuffles Remaining

REVERSE - Hectic
HALF - Popsofctown
PAIR - MariaR
LAYER - Locke113
SKIP (ENDS THE DAY) - Hectic
UNDO (COSTS ONE SHUFFLE, DOES NOT END DAY) - Hectic

(Please let me know if there are any mistakes)

I guess I'm pretty dumb for not noticing the "3 shuffle remaining" in this post, but qualifying this post with "as long as I'm alive" seems town indicative. Scum are less likely to contemplate being dead, on average they live longer. And Azuresky is not even in the top 2 slots - for her to even contemplate dying as some kind of default possibility, her memory has to slip about whether this game has a factional NK that she expects to eat a lot of the time.

Pops, quick question:

What alignment do you like more, scum or town?

Asking this question with the trick she later shows she had in mind for it seems like such genuine scumhunting. Scumhunting that does not look like you have the answer you want in mind and are working backwards to get it is the most town-indicative kind. I may have said "scum", and her read would have inverted.

Nah I dont need elements to play my game, but I admit Im not really sure what I should be doing right now for my vote at the moment.

Call it scummy, but I think Imma try to be more passive and laid-back this game. I usually get too aggressive for this site so Im going to wait and see, associate with people, and then vote.

So, just found out I'm wrong and everyone else is right, and there's just one NK per game. Passive play would work ok in a nightful mountainous, but given additional knowledge that this is closer to nightless mountainous, passive play is really dangerous, that's not how you win nightless setups as scum. Damn if I haven't experienced that the hard way. Soft join date, but she might know this intuitively, and even if she doesn't a partner in the scum PT probably laid out a gameplan. (Hinges somewhat on daytalk but daytalk is pretty site meta now)

I believe Hectic is scum.

The notion for hectic is that theres a pretty good chance hectic believes there will be atleast one shuffle, which allows him to gambit with a huge number for townpoints because “town wouldnt do that,” hectics number ENSURES hes the top, which is why I find this a gambit for townpoints.

He wants to be the top of the list, then I say we grant him his wish.

I think Hectic picked a high number because he's Hectic, but Azuresky's beef with him seems borne of genuine paranoia.

And I'm shifting towards scum on the slot now, so she's definitely not getting any mislynch credloss until Hectic flips. I think he essentially decided to draft 99^99^99 when he /inned for the queue in all likelihood, so the 99999 itself isn't anything, but he seems more concerned with justifying himself than I'd expect with him, and the revelation that the crossword puzzle is a VT claim is especially concerning. It's like, a serious thing to do, not a meme. But if VT is somewhere in the crossword puzzle he should know it's antitown and could cause mafia to shoot elsewhere, it's not a well concealed claim like 'first letter of each word in a random post'. That makes me interpret it as LAMIST.

Had weird spoiler related issues with this post so moving it here but: Thank you, shall look over this properly once I've caught up

[Locke113]

Spoiler: page11

Alright, so I'm gonna be honest. I've never been lynched on this site as any alignment, period.
That subconsciously makes me care

far

too much about being lynched, since some part of me wants that streak to continue.
Obviously, that's not very healthy, and probably makes me play a little bit worse, and makes every game where I'm being scumread as town a little more stressful when it really shouldn't be.
In some ways, it makes me play like scum as town, since I can't help but value survival far more than I should as town.

Also, I'm aware I only have 2 votes on me lol, and this may seem premature, but just wanted to get this out there since it's on my mind right now.
But in the event I do get mislynched, it would honestly come as a relief at this point.
If this makes you townread me, that's fantastic.
If not (this is an AtE after all), I'll do some scumhunting and elaborate on the number theory thing first, and no hard feelings.

Don't like this for the same reason I didn't like it when Elements did it, except this is worse as its openly an AtE. Dying is almost inevitable as town, it is possible to try to avoid death as town but members of town will always die no matter how good the town is that game. And considering as you said yourself this is very premature, and mentioning it doesn't make it less bad

Chemist1422 replaces Dongempire

Not suprised, Dong was clearly not interested in this game

Alright, so I'm gonna be honest. I've never been lynched on this site as any alignment, period.
That subconsciously makes me care far too much about being lynched, since some part of me wants that streak to continue.

Didn't get this feeling from that game where you were a mason and got run up to l-1

Hmmm

Normally in forum games you have a very obvious gimmicky presence; super angry, officer "officer" officer, complete troll. I don't see one This game.

While I don't have any experience playing with Hectic, based on this, you do have a point, he's quirky but I can't nail down a specific persona he might be going for here

[Chemist1422]

hi

oh no
since you are probably a novice
should tell you that half of newbie scum enter with "Hi" of some sort
might not be too late to ask mod to edit your post

[Nymph]

I think Dunns is town.

[Nymph]

Chemist needs to actually attempt to find scum or else we're lynching him. town!Chemist is sincere to actually trying to find scum. I generally don't trust when people replace out after playing really badly.

[Azuresky]

I think Dunns is town.

Cool.

Thoughts on Hectic

[Chemist1422]

Chemist needs to actually attempt to find scum or else we're lynching him. town!Chemist is sincere to actually trying to find scum. I generally don't trust when people replace out after playing really badly.

I'm pretty sure I've never played with you so how do you know my meta?

[MariaR]

Will get to this after DND.

[Elements]

2

[Chemist1422]

Hey Elements

What are you doing with the numbers

[Elements]

counting down

[Nymph]

I think Dunns is town.

Cool.

Thoughts on Hectic

I think 251 was pretty bad. Why panic at 2 votes? He was a light town read in the earlier part of this game but it's more null now.

Chemist needs to actually attempt to find scum or else we're lynching him. town!Chemist is sincere to actually trying to find scum. I generally don't trust when people replace out after playing really badly.

I'm pretty sure I've never played with you so how do you know my meta?

I've read the games you've been in or am familiar with them.

[Nymph]

I know activity is NaI, but I see Dongs replace out as a towntell, he was obviously apathetic. I feel given the gamestate, he could have stayed in as mafia and flake around, but then he was getting pointed out for is hypocracy, so idk.

Why can't this be done by scum exactly?

[MariaR]

@MariaR - I come from the Matsina school of being town,

Sorry you lost me after this.

I mean, if you are telling me that your #11 is a lie, we can lynch you if you like.

Trust me, when I lie you won’t figure it out so I’ll save you the trouble

VOTE: Pair

This would leave Lock out right? Then reverse killing Lock/Azure. I think I'm fine with that right now

Im Conductor, Locke is GM.

*Math Pun*

Attempting to lynch us results in your erasure.

This is fluff dont read into it

Oh no… I am so scared. Listen this is all peaches and cream but what I’m hearing is a bunch of ‘ifs’ and really just empty posts.

They can pick one and do it again and again. Like being too dumb to learn different types of magic. It's never fun when a game's too easy
@Mod: The mafia can shuffle more than once per game if they reuse the same type of shuffle method, can they not? That's my reading of "method"

You’re not serious are you? Oh god, that’s rich. Wake me up when you ask something good.

I think it seems like Nymph doesn't think hard about how the magic works. But if they were scum I think they'd think harder. Scum have to think "who's the second person, are we friends?" I think Nymph doesn't have any friends. But that's why they can be my friend

You could’ve just said you think Nypth is town because they wouldn’t be this stupid as scum and saved me the time to read ya know. You humans always gotta draw out your stuff.

I think we've become interested in pretty different games by now. In Role Call I threw many a tantrum for playing my games by my rules. That makes me worried what you really want is to beat me at hide and seek again

My old team made me play hide and seek. But the person who found me wasn’t who I suspected. Then ya know, got turned with some dark magic the whole nine yards. I think it’s my turn to be the seeker.

You quote things from her I know you should think are "wrong but town" and I think you should be able to learn more. Can you even try to think like a human?

Ouch, my feelings. I don’t know if I’m feeling like calling them town. Maybe you could explain it to me huh? Help me think like a human a bit. (Never thought I’d say that)

it's mentally exhausting


but somehow addicting

Right! It’s quite fun~ Join the party forever.

Well have fun with this then, cause im not gonna burn myself out at school just to come back to this

I didn’t know we were getting invited to a ‘woo as me’ party. Should I send my card now or after you whine?

Locks next bunch of posts are better, but I still think at the moment I want them to get cut with Azure but I prefer Azure. We’ll see how the rest of this catch up goes.

[MariaR]

Feel free to ask any questions. My students always had plenty after my regular lectures.

Listen Math teacher guy, this was all fine and dandy to learn to but to be frank it ends up to nothing in a game like this. Trying to think about who the mafia are based on numbers won’t do you any good. The environment is wrong. The way the game is played is wrong. So many factors that make it all a bunch of nonsense. So while this was cute, your whole theory is incorrect considering the factors don’t align. Get it?

will find her if she's scum later
these rp types always crumble later

Yeah, goodluck on that one. But hey, whatever floats your boat. I could ask why you think this, but really I don’t care that much.

VOTE: Pair

This would leave Lock out right? Then reverse killing Lock/Azure. I think I'm fine with that right now

Now that I know what Pair does, wouldn't a Pair -> Reverse hit Nymph? Not me or Azure? Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're doing here?

Does it? Honestly, I don’t know. Let’s ask the Rift mod guy and ask for an example for each list on what the odd person out would be for each shuffle.

@MOD ^^^^^

This feels like a weird progression, pushing a scumread more then unvoting, I can think of a town reason for it but I'm curious to hear from you, whats your reasoning for this?

I think there's more to focus on than just getting somebody lynched with the votes today and I want to figure the progression of 3 shuffles before I vote for the first one

I don't think I'm the person to pick for "guy who doesn't know the setup"

Do I even need to say anything on why these 2 quotes are here. No? Good. Although I do think this guy might be downplaying just a little. I don’t think anyone is that stupid. Maybe they’re trying to stall for time? Yeah I can see that

Yeah scum is the faction that lies. And I can tell the difference from when you're lying for memes and when you're lying to play in bad faith for strategic advantage.

VOTE: Skip

ooo Now this I find interesting.

[MariaR]

I'm done catching up again and it's a shame that I'm scumreading so much of the playerlist, but in theory, I only need a few solid townreads to win the game and I have enough at least for day 1. Maybe at least try to do better. We really need to start talking about who to get rid of because we're all playing solo right now. As much as I love going solo I can't really do that here. So guys, what do you wanna do?

[popsofctown]

I think it seems like Nymph doesn't think hard about how the magic works. But if they were scum I think they'd think harder. Scum have to think "who's the second person, are we friends?" I think Nymph doesn't have any friends. But that's why they can be my friend

You could’ve just said you think Nypth is town because they wouldn’t be this stupid as scum and saved me the time to read ya know. You humans always gotta draw out your stuff.

Nympth is smart, not dumb. If I talked too fast it might sounds like teasing. I don't want to tease my friends.

I think we've become interested in pretty different games by now. In Role Call I threw many a tantrum for playing my games by my rules. That makes me worried what you really want is to beat me at hide and seek again

My old team made me play hide and seek. But the person who found me wasn’t who I suspected. Then ya know, got turned with some dark magic the whole nine yards. I think it’s my turn to be the seeker.

Are you seeking? Or pretending to look, so your best friend can win?
So far you want to hurt someone who seems obviously good to me. Obvious enough I expect you to figure it out. But it doesn't look like you are really playing. Instead of deciding whether her recent casts onto Hectic are in courage or fear, you teased her to brag about how easily you could lie to her? And complained about a joke she LABELLED A JOKE?
So what if I decide:
Maybe you have to be a pyromancer to understand certain things, and not everybody is a pyromancer. And I should look at whether you do the things you are good at.
How have you not posted a read on Dunnstral yet? You have bragged about how well you know him before. You quoted him twice, but your stance on him is unclear even though two players, count me as three, has a townread there.
You can call yourself a seeker when you're really looking.

You quote things from her I know you should think are "wrong but town" and I think you should be able to learn more. Can you even try to think like a human?

Ouch, my feelings. I don’t know if I’m feeling like calling them town. Maybe you could explain it to me huh? Help me think like a human a bit. (Never thought I’d say that)

You had no comment on the story I wrote for everyone. You are replying when you need to tease me for using too many words in a sentence about Nymph, and not replying to the posts that smoulder with meaning about where the werewolves are. You are trying to make me think you aren't a werewolf by pretending you are scared everyone is, but you're not telling me the stories about their howls, or listening when I say someone's clothes are too tight for fur.
I know some of this is your style. You know how to count without holding up your fingers for everyone to see. Yeah yeah. But when you're lightly pocketing me then doing so much wrong with silence as to why, I have to be scared of you. And decidedly disinterested in torching down whom you ask for.

[popsofctown]

I guess Dunn did do stuff. Oh. Still want some reads from him.

This is a lot of "stuff" for Dunnstral, both in volume and in character.

I still read Pops as an innocent soul. I dont like the buddying from her, but maybe cause Im not used to people townreading me this early.

Despite some unawareness and obliviousness to the setup that has been painfully highlighted to me, I've noticed since this game was in queue that "oh, literally everyone is a doctor, that's powerful".
So finding a townread is really relevant. I'd like to have more. Wouldn't take much more quantity of the same quality from Dunnstral for him to be an exciting slot for the unkillable positions too.
Buddying you in the sense that I want to push the ballot on something that puts you unkillable, yes, but I'm not asking you to votebloc or planning to sheep any of your reads I don't agree with.

UNVOTE: btw, the skip vote was a rude gesture for Hectic of course, but I want to pick a 3 transform sequence the way Dunnstral does.
Something that kills two among MariaR, Chemist, Hectic, and Elements, and I want to play some more day 1 mafia to figure out who of those I prefer the most (er and more importantly it will come down to what I can get consensus on).

[Chemist1422]

oh god the colors

I’m in school so I have some time to catch up

[Locke113]

counting down

The suspense is killing me

VOTE: Pair

This would leave Lock out right? Then reverse killing Lock/Azure. I think I'm fine with that right now

Now that I know what Pair does, wouldn't a Pair -> Reverse hit Nymph? Not me or Azure? Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're doing here?

Does it? Honestly, I don’t know. Let’s ask the Rift mod guy and ask for an example for each list on what the odd person out would be for each shuffle.

@MOD ^^^^^

I think so anyway, if not then I'm gonna look pretty stupid

oh god the colors

I’m in school so I have some time to catch up

Ah someone who feels my pain, I genuinely struggle to read that red text on black background

[Azuresky]

I feel like there has been too much talk and not enough action at this point.

If you feel like playing the setup game and setting up shuffles to work in towns favor, go right on ahead and start voting. The people that want to do that need to start making ideas and plans to go through.

My vote still stands. Everyone should be able to look at reactions from me/hectic/elements/pops/locke. Theres stuff to work with in there. If the activity wasnt so low Id argue the hesitation on wagoning SKIP makes it town-oriented. I have no plans of messing with the list at this point.

———————

@mRaRrRiRaR: if youre scumreading half this list youre trying too hard.
@Pops: voting skip out of emotion looks bad.
@Nymph: wouldnt scum be more content to sit back than to actually play the game? Dong could have stayed in and twiddled his thumbs. Its a nulltell anyways since he was getting looked at for his hypocrisy.

[Azuresky]

Honestly manipulating the list is more something Id like to work on tomorrow when we have some flips.

[Locke113]

Finally got round to reading through 240 and I'm a man of my word so here are some thoughts,

For The record, as long as Im alive, I will try to provide everyone with what the action will lead to help with scumhunting. If you want to know how to lynch someone, I will let you know:

For Now: 3 Shuffles Remaining

REVERSE - Hectic
HALF - Popsofctown
PAIR - MariaR
LAYER - Locke113
SKIP (ENDS THE DAY) - Hectic
UNDO (COSTS ONE SHUFFLE, DOES NOT END DAY) - Hectic

(Please let me know if there are any mistakes)

I guess I'm pretty dumb for not noticing the "3 shuffle remaining" in this post, but qualifying this post with "as long as I'm alive" seems town indicative. Scum are less likely to contemplate being dead, on average they live longer. And Azuresky is not even in the top 2 slots - for her to even contemplate dying as some kind of default possibility, her memory has to slip about whether this game has a factional NK that she expects to eat a lot of the time.

Hmm, I can see the reasoning here, especially considering her join date. While scum absolutely can contemplate death and in some particularly confident moves, propose their own death as a viable option, I don't think most newbie scum would be as likely to do it. Very far from definitive but can see where the early town read came from.

Pops, quick question:

What alignment do you like more, scum or town?

Asking this question with the trick she later shows she had in mind for it seems like such genuine scumhunting. Scumhunting that does not look like you have the answer you want in mind and are working backwards to get it is the most town-indicative kind. I may have said "scum", and her read would have inverted.

Eh I suppose its consistent with her trick is consistent with her other posts where she puts too much stock into people's first posts but not really sure that is a good attempt at determining anyone's alignment

Nah I dont need elements to play my game, but I admit Im not really sure what I should be doing right now for my vote at the moment.

Call it scummy, but I think Imma try to be more passive and laid-back this game. I usually get too aggressive for this site so Im going to wait and see, associate with people, and then vote.

So, just found out I'm wrong and everyone else is right, and there's just one NK per game. Passive play would work ok in a nightful mountainous, but given additional knowledge that this is closer to nightless mountainous, passive play is really dangerous, that's not how you win nightless setups as scum. Damn if I haven't experienced that the hard way. Soft join date, but she might know this intuitively, and even if she doesn't a partner in the scum PT probably laid out a gameplan. (Hinges somewhat on daytalk but daytalk is pretty site meta now)

Okay so I've seen this phrasing a couple of times, what is mountainous? Cause it seems like an important part of the point you're making here and I don't know what it is

I believe Hectic is scum.

The notion for hectic is that theres a pretty good chance hectic believes there will be atleast one shuffle, which allows him to gambit with a huge number for townpoints because “town wouldnt do that,” hectics number ENSURES hes the top, which is why I find this a gambit for townpoints.

He wants to be the top of the list, then I say we grant him his wish.

I think Hectic picked a high number because he's Hectic, but Azuresky's beef with him seems borne of genuine paranoia.

This really comes down to what one considers genuine or not, and its at least partially something you have to feel out so I can't really counter this point except to say, I disagree