Newbie 1959 | Stuff I Found Online Xv | Over

[teacher]

@George/board: I need some help. I am getting myself in conf-bias land regarding Dong’s contradiction and overall play.

On the contradiction, Ive posted about it several times but nobody’s engaging with it (other than to tell me they don’t see it). Can someone explain to me why this either (a) isn’t a contradiction, or (b) is NAI?

Spoiler: contradiction one more time

teacher is a pretty relaxed player overall so i dont think the response is telling.

Here, there is no problem with my response (and I think the implication is my response is pretty relaxed, otherwise why say the first part).

I dont like teachers response to getting wagoned. . . . . teacher was panicking here.

Here, there is clearly a problem with my response, and I am no longer pretty relaxed)

Outside of that, in the early game Dong claimed to be a werewolf (34) and claimed not to know there was daychat (35) – both things Ive seen scum do, and both of which are, at best, simply WIFOMy that do not help a solve in any way. In the later game, he avoids the general questions (74), does not respond to a direct question asking for reasons to avoid them (133), and also does not engage on the contradiction (132). Instead he declares v/la, without doing any real sorting on most of the board.

Finally, his read on me is contradictory. He says multiple times how experienced I am – saying that as town I should have no problem keeping calm. But why, then, does he assume expert!me makes a newb!scum play of panicking?

(FWIW, I disagree that I was panicked – I think I made the exact post he would expect me to make in 37, but here I am trying to play through his mindset. I simply don’t see how Dong’s read is the product of a consistent mindset rather than a motivated push on the most active player).

[Spartan117]

Apologies for the absence, was busy this evening and will be again tomorrow evening but will try and get some content more out when I can. (I also want to investigate the teacher/dong situation in more depth tomorrow as a single entity than just brushing over it in this big ole wall)

First of all I want to address my reaction test on putting Teacher to L-1 and the ripple effects, as it has been talking about by most which is what it was intended for.

I want to clear up if it wasnt clear that when I said

Alright time to turn things up a notch in here VOTE: Teacher

L-1

If anyone has intent to hammer announce so that he has a chance to roll claim.

That was an effort to try and prevent a lolhammer at least by newbtown.

I felt Teachers reaction was fairly natural of anyone being put to L-1 on page 2, didnt feel it was too AI indicative, although It did lead to him askin questions about the wagon which to that point had kinda been glossed over, so that felt very townie to try and make sense of it rather than just rubbish why it got to that point so quickly.

Now going to go through each person one at a time.

Chibiie

2. I usually hide my role as town until I read at least one more Townie and then do my best to show myself to them only, creating a circle of trusted players to work around with... It does happen that sometimes I misread and add a scum in the circle, but 90% my Townie playstyle shines.

I'd worry if Chibiie is town that he could be impressionable and get pocketed by scum, although its very hard when you get strong feelings of someones townie behaviour, I've been pocketed in the past its very frustrating.

With all said and done, I will currently VOTE: Spartan only because of #38 where he "has no issue with hammering anyone here provided he thinks they are scum."

Can you please explain to me how having no issue hammering anyone here that I think is scum is a scummy thing to say? Sure as the game goes on and myself and I'd hope all of you get town reads of people we tend to be less likely to want to hammer/lynch them. if anything its NAI.

Saladman started strong initiating the RVS and voting against teacher, but that's RVS and he voted teacher probably due to previous encounter in a different game, that's how it looks to me. (ofc, I needed more info which was later revealed, I couldn't assume this based on Salad's first post, so thank you for getting more in-depth with your discussion).

Short about Salad: I believe he had a pretty straight and logical play there, showing that they know each other, so they do have some kind of experience reading each other, therefore I UNVOTE: Salad

Also could you explain to me your reasoning for why you unvoted salad as I cant seem to understand your reasoning here.

Merfin

#121 you basically highlight how you felt that George had put his vote on your to hide into the shadows and "park your vote" which I felt was a good read into it, telling him you have your eyes on him, then choose to put your vote on me, which is fine but not for the reasoning of

I don't like how he tried to tell people not to quickhammer someone, and then went on to almost get someone lynched so fast.

I think it would be OBVIOUS youd only hammer people you thought were scum,
and he really looks like a better person to vote than my random one
even more than the slightly scummy GeorgeBailey

As this is something that had already been explained by multiple people at this point.
Felt a bit like a finding their feet read.

GeorgeBailey

I've been following this thread for the past few days but i'm not quite sure what to gather from anything.

Spartman seems the strangest since he hammered you and almost got you lynched.

GeorgemanBaileyman here in what I can only read as a post where he starts by telling everyone hes been lurking which is a slight wiff of alarm bells there but I could also see this being down to newish town who is still learning what is good and bad hence thinking that I hammered teacher when I put him to L-1 but it seems GeorgemanBaileyman

AaronFrost

Alright, since teacher's questions didn't really spark up activity levels too much, I'll throw in a question of my own and see where it gets us.

If you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be and why?

I'd probably lynch Salad. Didn't like his quick unvote after voting Spartan and his vote on Spartan seemed very opportunistic to begin with.

in #92 I really liked Aarons push for more content following the drying up of activity after teachers questions, I felt this was quite the provocative question that has potential to catch scum out, although I could see it also catching out newbtown out dependent on their word usage. Wasn't a fan of saladmans response after this, its probably not AI but rather than taking that chance to put in some game advancing content, he used it to express a defeatist couple of posts about how he had been lynched in previous games

Yeah distancing is a pretty common scum tactic but I think it's pretty unlikely that scum would be distancing from each other on Day 1, especially in a Newbie game.

Aaron since youve mentioned this what do you think of the potential of a Dong/Teacher partnership and their continuel discussion on the reaction?
After ive gone into it in more depth tomorrow i hope to have a better understanding of the potential of a scum distancing tactic.

Yodavader

If I had to lynch someone right now, I would go after Spartan. I know that he was trying to get reactions but putting someone on the literal chopping block just for said reaction is not very townie.

I have to disagree with what Yoda says here I feel that putting pressure on to obtain a reaction and produce reads advancing game content is very townie imo.

Dongempire

I liked Dongs push on saladman, with a fairly natural reaction on anti town not meaning scum in #57.

Alright, i gotta make do with what i already have here.

I dont like teachers response to getting wagoned. He posts about an hour later he is at l-1 and immediatly lashes out onto aaron for not unvoting even though he isnt on his wagon.

Why do you want teacher to claim? Do you intend on lynching him today?

This is a terrible response to L-1 from somebody who is on my wagon.

Now i agree that this would be a bad post had he actually been on his wagon, and even though aaron wasnt i still have a bone to pick with it but the gist is this: teacher was panicking here.
Now lolhammers are a common enough occurence on newbie games, enough to keep an eye out or even panic at times. However an experienced player like teacher, had he rolled town shouldnt have problem keeping calm at l-1. I feel like town!teacher here would have tried to explain the implications of a L-1 this early and panicked later. I believe that he also would have townread this at first glance.
Of course him disappearing right after that doesnt do him any favors either i dont think. Somethings wrong with his playstyle, yet i cant quite put my finger on it right now. I guess i'll have more substantial stuff later in the game.

Besides that im not liking saladmans activity. He seems to post a lot, yet almost all of them lack substance.

This feels a bit too much of a reach for my liking of a scum read which could be scum scraping at the bottom of the barrel for some reads to put together, especially after at least I was anticipating some decent content from Dong

Plus, no one claims on page 2.

Bad post.
If you actually saw what spartan was trying to do there it wasnt to get a claim, nor to lynch. It was to put enough pressure for both teachers and the people on his wagons activity to rise. Scumreading him on such a thin basis is in itself scummy.

reiterates previous point similar to what Aaron expressed in #75 could be a search for content to jump on salads wagon not too sure yet.

teacher

I've really liked teachers activity and pursuit of his questions trying to get the game going which isnt indicative of scum but could at a push be scum trying to take charge and hide in a strong townie cloud, but thats a fair push of an accusation, so for now im seeing you as a medium to high town from my pov.

Saladman27

I understood why it can be seen as scumming to be putting someone on L-1 but I felt the way I did it was done in a way that I was looking for a reaction, something I thought salad might have seen before, so jumping on my wagon right after aaron had voted me with no real justification, looking very opportunistic.
Then 10 mins after I switch my vote from teacher onto saladman to put some pressure onto him he unvotes me in what I can assume is his realisation that he has nothing against me to make an actual push. His response to when being questioned as to why he unvoted was that he didnt want to risk a mislynch when I was at L-3.

I voted him to avoid the lolhammer of teacher and now I unvoted for some bullshit reason...

Dont know if I cant find it but I dont see an explanation for this reason to take the pressure of me?

Contents a bit light on Yoda and Teacher will try and get some more content out about them tomorrow.

Kinda how im feeling at the moment, its a tough one as the middle feels fairly fluid.

Town

Teacher
Aaronfrost
YodaVader
Merfin
GeorgeBailey
Chibiie
Saladman27
Dong

Scum

Gonna go out and call it now Salad/Chibiie scum team. Will see how this thought matures.

There is more I want to say but its 1:33am here and ive got to be up for work in 5 hours :/

If anyone has any questions for me please ask away.

[Chibiie]

Chibiie
In post 98, Chibiie wrote:
2. I usually hide my role as town until I read at least one more Townie and then do my best to show myself to them only, creating a circle of trusted players to work around with... It does happen that sometimes I misread and add a scum in the circle, but 90% my Townie playstyle shines.

I'd worry if Chibiie is town that he could be impressionable and get pocketed by scum, although its very hard when you get strong feelings of someones townie behaviour, I've been pocketed in the past its very frustrating.

In post 131, Chibiie wrote:
With all said and done, I will currently VOTE: Spartan only because of #38 where he "has no issue with hammering anyone here provided he thinks they are scum."

Can you please explain to me how having no issue hammering anyone here that I think is scum is a scummy thing to say? Sure as the game goes on and myself and I'd hope all of you get town reads of people we tend to be less likely to want to hammer/lynch them. if anything its NAI.

In post 131, Chibiie wrote:
Saladman started strong initiating the RVS and voting against teacher, but that's RVS and he voted teacher probably due to previous encounter in a different game, that's how it looks to me. (ofc, I needed more info which was later revealed, I couldn't assume this based on Salad's first post, so thank you for getting more in-depth with your discussion).

Short about Salad: I believe he had a pretty straight and logical play there, showing that they know each other, so they do have some kind of experience reading each other, therefore I UNVOTE: Salad

Also could you explain to me your reasoning for why you unvoted salad as I cant seem to understand your reasoning here.

In post #19, Spartan votes himself (RVS), however, IMO, in Mafia type games, regardless of being a Townie or a Scum, everyone plays Town... That is the basic idea where the game starts... Everyone. Is. Town.
Does Town wants Townies to die? Nope... Will a Town vote a Town if they know they're town? Nope...
For me, that's a unjustified play that can be used in order to break the ice of the game, however, will always be a bad play in my opinion, regardless of game phase...

Later on in #36, after a little chatter and ideas exchange, he turns around and votes teacher to an L-1 // "If anyone has intent to hammer announce so that he has a chance to roll claim." // legit play, not gonna lie, that's a solid play from what I see as game mechanics on this platform, 'cause being able to fluster someone, maybe even straight-up scare someone and get a reaction out of it, is a solid play and a good information-gathering tool.

However, the fact that in #38 he enforces the hammer part of his #36 makes me feel like his true intent is to have someone lynched D1, which I'm completely against.

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.


///// Regarding Salad, I' ve stated my reasoning for unvoting him pretty clear... His play shows relationship to me, I want Salad, teacher and Dong (these 3 seem to know each other) alive so they can talk and read eachother, they'll either end up in the same team or different, right? Having a group of players that already have a grasp of each other's playstyles is a strong weapon for us, who didn't played with them before, because we're new and they need time to adjust with our amounts of posts, the level of interest in conversation and strategies overall (I am more of a logical, connect-the-dots type of player, will use any little information, even the order of ideas in one's post, even yours, I take notice of player's order in your post), but they can read each other to a certain level based on previous games... I want to have that, as a new player here, I will honestly abuse this.

[Chibiie]

Also, I would like to throw a disclaimer:

"Chibiie, if you're against lynching D1, why did you vote him?"

I'm spreading the votes, keeping them unorganized and making sure that people don't actually lynch someone D1, that would be a mess and may or may not give a lead start to scums.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.05

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Spartan117

(2): Merfin, Chibiie

Dongempire

(2): teacher, AaronFrost

Saladman27

(1): Spartan117

GeorgeBailey

(1): Yodavader

teacher

(1): Dongempire

Merfin

(1): GeorgeBailey

Not Voting

(1): Saladman27

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-09 09:00:00).

Mod notes: Dongempire is V/LA until 6 October.

[/area]

[Yodavader]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

[Chibiie]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

In a 9 players situation, there's 18% chance of mislynching... It doesn't look a lot, but having no information, think about it this way: We mislynch, there's a chance of losing of a good detective role (tracker, cop, jailkeeper, yes jailer is a detective role since he can isolate players and have 1-on-1 anonymous conversation with them, he's also a big threat to scums and also a protector for Townies in special situations of high threat towards confirmed Townies, mislynching this role is the biggest Town loss).

If we're part of A3 or C3, then losing on Town Mason is bad too, because there's already a 2/9 players that already know each other's alignments and can work together in solving this puzzle. A3 / C3 Masons have the Town majority and should be treated as important roles too, we must not mislynch these.

Think about it this way: You mislynch and lose the Doctor... Cop / Tracker, depending on the setup will suffer since he will not be able to bluntly put down his info in thread as he will be targeted next instantly...

Mislynching puts pressure on Town and good scums take advantage of this... Yoda, idk what to say man, but your reasoning don't feel very well-tought to me and if I may join the Town/Scum thingy, I would say I don't trust anyone, which is normal for this point in-game, but the bottom of my list ends with Yoda.

[Chibiie]

A3 / C3 Masons have the town's majority as early game confirmed roles (not really confirmed, but I believe you understand my logic)

[Spartan117]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

I agree with yoda here. With a lynch whether it be town or scum thats lynched, you get to see the journey to it, giving you information on those who pushed it, those who didnt and stayed off, and everything in between.
With just the night kill all the information you get is the persons role and half the alignment of the convos that person had with other people which anyone can say it is just a TvT argument without the pressure, with a lynch you get the reactions of the person lynched and all those involved, so for Chibiie to go through the effort of avoiding lynching is anti town imo, not sure yet if its necessarily scummy, I want to know what everyone else thinks on this.

When you admit to everyone that you are trying not to lynch anyone the weight of your words to them and your vote lose a lot of value and pressure.

[Chibiie]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

I agree with yoda here. With a lynch whether it be town or scum thats lynched, you get to see the journey to it, giving you information on those who pushed it, those who didnt and stayed off, and everything in between.
With just the night kill all the information you get is the persons role and half the alignment of the convos that person had with other people which anyone can say it is just a TvT argument without the pressure, with a lynch you get the reactions of the person lynched and all those involved, so for Chibiie to go through the effort of avoiding lynching is anti town imo, not sure yet if its necessarily scummy, I want to know what everyone else thinks on this.

When you admit to everyone that you are trying not to lynch anyone the weight of your words to them and your vote lose a lot of value and pressure.

I completely disagree and stand by my #156 post.

[Spartan117]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

In a 9 players situation, there's 18% chance of mislynching... It doesn't look a lot, but having no information, think about it this way: We mislynch, there's a chance of losing of a good detective role (tracker, cop, jailkeeper, yes jailer is a detective role since he can isolate players and have 1-on-1 anonymous conversation with them, he's also a big threat to scums and also a protector for Townies in special situations of high threat towards confirmed Townies, mislynching this role is the biggest Town loss).

If we're part of A3 or C3, then losing on Town Mason is bad too, because there's already a 2/9 players that already know each other's alignments and can work together in solving this puzzle. A3 / C3 Masons have the Town majority and should be treated as important roles too, we must not mislynch these.

Think about it this way: You mislynch and lose the Doctor... Cop / Tracker, depending on the setup will suffer since he will not be able to bluntly put down his info in thread as he will be targeted next instantly...

Mislynching puts pressure on Town and good scums take advantage of this... Yoda, idk what to say man, but your reasoning don't feel very well-tought to me and if I may join the Town/Scum thingy, I would say I don't trust anyone, which is normal for this point in-game, but the bottom of my list ends with Yoda.

Where do you get 18% mislynch? at any town players perspective there are 6 other town and 2 mafia, would you not have a 6/8 chance for a mislynch which is 75%. Your whole argument against a lynch seems that if we get a mislynch not only do we lose a town that there is a chance we lose a power role, which is why we have people like myself say declare intent to hammer before you do so that they can claim their role so as to not lynch a power role, as if someone claims a power role they are either that role or scum so that gives us info there, obliviously I do not want the power roles to be known but I don't think avoiding a lynch just because there is a risk of lynching town is the way to go.

What is your scum read on yoda based on, can you elaborate, is it just that he doesn't agree with you?

[Spartan117]

-snip-

I'mma be straight honest here, I'd rather be killed in Night 1 and have my death help Town track down the Mafia than have a mislynch D1.

-snip-

I have always gone with lynching, even if it's a mislynch. IMO, a no lynch doesn't give as much information as a mislynch.

I agree with yoda here. With a lynch whether it be town or scum thats lynched, you get to see the journey to it, giving you information on those who pushed it, those who didnt and stayed off, and everything in between.
With just the night kill all the information you get is the persons role and half the alignment of the convos that person had with other people which anyone can say it is just a TvT argument without the pressure, with a lynch you get the reactions of the person lynched and all those involved, so for Chibiie to go through the effort of avoiding lynching is anti town imo, not sure yet if its necessarily scummy, I want to know what everyone else thinks on this.

When you admit to everyone that you are trying not to lynch anyone the weight of your words to them and your vote lose a lot of value and pressure.

I completely disagree and stand by my #156 post.

What is it that you disagree with, rather than just saying you completely disagree, tell me what of what I have said in particular you disagree with and why, i need more than just that you disagree, I need to see a well reasoned argument

[Chibiie]

Where do you get 18% mislynch? at any town players perspective there are 6 other town and 2 mafia, would you not have a 6/8 chance for a mislynch which is 75%. Your whole argument against a lynch seems that if we get a mislynch not only do we lose a town that there is a chance we lose a power role, which is why we have people like myself say declare intent to hammer before you do so that they can claim their role so as to not lynch a power role, as if someone claims a power role they are either that role or scum so that gives us info there, obliviously I do not want the power roles to be known but I don't think avoiding a lynch just because there is a risk of lynching town is the way to go.

What is your scum read on yoda based on, can you elaborate, is it just that he doesn't agree with you?

1. I did my math wrong, I'm sorry, you are correct on the percentage.
2. At one point in-game, the most standard Town playstyle is that at least one power role that can gather info will show himself to the world while protective roles stay hidden and protect them as many nights as possible while Vanilla Townies will most likely try to mislead scums into targeting them.
3. I didn't say I "scumread", but I don't see him very aware of the consequences of a mislynch...
4. You don't look very aware either...

In my experience in social deduction games, I've never considered throwing someone random under the bus for info as a valid play... My goal as townie is to win with as many Townies alive as possible.
Whenever I play Mafia, my perfect strategy is to have Mafia mess up N1. Here someone will say "but how you gather info then?"... We have POWER ROLES, this is their job... "What does Mafia mess up N1 means?" Attacking a healed target. Someone will figure out why that person is attacked, people will turn heads towards the attacked person and will know that 1. He's Townie confirmed for being targeted by Mafia and 2. People will investigate his relationships with everyone and it'll lead them to who could possibly be Mafia and throw their best shot of getting rid of one scum in D2 lynch.

Power roles are there for a reason... They're offensive, support and investigative... Make the best out of them.

[Chibiie]

I hope everyone understands my point of view... I'm against a D1 lynch. Not against pushing people to make them talk, but against actually lynching someone. I see no misplay in any of your posts, you're all having valid arguments, looking for slip-ups, but D1 isn't the perfect time.

I will stand by my word and that rather than having both D1 mislynch and N1 Mafia kill, I'd cut it down to N1 Mafia kill or hopefully to a N1 Mafia healed target. That's more info in my opinion, that's where good reactions come from. D1 mislynch will not gather very much info, just one person less to argue and possibly a lost power role.

If it's a mislynch, it could lead to pushing towards the one who first pushed the vote and if that person is also Townie, I can only think about the biggest mess ever... You guys have your own experiences and you know how to play your way, I'm very excited to see different playstyles on this platform. I'm curious on how will I enjoy this website later after this game is over.

[Spartan117]

Where do you get 18% mislynch? at any town players perspective there are 6 other town and 2 mafia, would you not have a 6/8 chance for a mislynch which is 75%. Your whole argument against a lynch seems that if we get a mislynch not only do we lose a town that there is a chance we lose a power role, which is why we have people like myself say declare intent to hammer before you do so that they can claim their role so as to not lynch a power role, as if someone claims a power role they are either that role or scum so that gives us info there, obliviously I do not want the power roles to be known but I don't think avoiding a lynch just because there is a risk of lynching town is the way to go.

What is your scum read on yoda based on, can you elaborate, is it just that he doesn't agree with you?

1. I did my math wrong, I'm sorry, you are correct on the percentage.
2. At one point in-game, the most standard Town playstyle is that at least one power role that can gather info will show himself to the world while protective roles stay hidden and protect them as many nights as possible while Vanilla Townies will most likely try to mislead scums into targeting them.
3. I didn't say I "scumread", but I don't see him very aware of the consequences of a mislynch...
4. You don't look very aware either...

In my experience in social deduction games, I've never considered throwing someone random under the bus for info as a valid play... My goal as townie is to win with as many Townies alive as possible.
Whenever I play Mafia, my perfect strategy is to have Mafia mess up N1. Here someone will say "but how you gather info then?"... We have POWER ROLES, this is their job... "What does Mafia mess up N1 means?" Attacking a healed target. Someone will figure out why that person is attacked, people will turn heads towards the attacked person and will know that 1. He's Townie confirmed for being targeted by Mafia and 2. People will investigate his relationships with everyone and it'll lead them to who could possibly be Mafia and throw their best shot of getting rid of one scum in D2 lynch.

Power roles are there for a reason... They're offensive, support and investigative... Make the best out of them.

You sound more like you wish to rely on power roles, they are a benefit ofc but not the only source of information, on here our bread and butter are are our reads of people and their play, when we choose to stop trying to press people and gather reads that only plays into the mafias hands as it allows for them to hide in that zone of pressureless play and prosper because of it. I'm starting to see the benefit for scum, to starve us of information by pushing for a no-lynch as weird as it may sound.

The numbers are as follows,
% for town to lynch a power role D1 is 25%
% for mafia to NK a power role N1 29%
and the chances of mafia not killing someone by some power role shenanigans are slim at best.

What information do we get to find scum with just 1 NK townie death when we don't know who killed them. Scum can pick and choose their NK target based upon how they think it will best help them during the day.
NKs are more than likely inevitable, what information does a NK give us that a lynch doesnt?

[Spartan117]

I hope everyone understands my point of view... I'm against a D1 lynch. Not against pushing people to make them talk, but against actually lynching someone. I see no misplay in any of your posts, you're all having valid arguments, looking for slip-ups, but D1 isn't the perfect time.

I will stand by my word and that rather than having both D1 mislynch and N1 Mafia kill, I'd cut it down to N1 Mafia kill or hopefully to a N1 Mafia healed target. That's more info in my opinion, that's where good reactions come from. D1 mislynch will not gather very much info, just one person less to argue and possibly a lost power role.

If it's a mislynch, it could lead to pushing towards the one who first pushed the vote and if that person is also Townie, I can only think about the biggest mess ever... You guys have your own experiences and you know how to play your way, I'm very excited to see different playstyles on this platform. I'm curious on how will I enjoy this website later after this game is over.

I do understand where you are coming from, I just personally dont agree with you on this, I don't think this opinion is a largely scummy one, but I think you need to understand someones push to make them talk and pressure you can put on them decrease massively when its hollow with no threat of lynching them.

[Chibiie]

I'm starting to see the benefit for scum, to starve us of information by pushing for a no-lynch as weird as it may sound.

As bad as that sounds, It has been proven before, in most games, that scums mess-up in that situation.

Also, I would like to point out that even if we kill a Vanilla Townie... That vote is important, that mind is important and his opinion, even if we don't know he's Townie... His information is important because this is a game of accusations. We accuse each other, we throw confusion, we throw facts, sometimes we make up scenes and sometimes we play prophet. (btw, off-topic, but prophet plays are king, idk if you have experienced this "prophet" play but is a bluff strategy where, usually, a townie power role manipulates Mafia targeting a player by using words only and foresees the following night actions perfectly, it is all manipulation, btw)

There are no benefits to scums to be honest... They're in the same boat as us.
We can either mislynch a townie power role, we can lynch a Mafia power role, we can mislynch a vanilla townie, we can lynch a vanilla Mafia, there's countless outcomes for this game overall.

For D1 however, I wanna keep it 9/9. This is my playstyle, if peeps are against it, there's no need for 9/9 votes to lynch anyway. I just wanna play D1 safe and have as many people help me on solving this puzzle.

[teacher]

I will hammer myself before I let a no lynch happen. I’ll walk through the reasons when I wake up. But other than mylo, I’ve never no lynched in a game and we are not starting now.

[Chibiie]

Also, I'm pretty sure that scums will always be happier with a D1 lynch... That's one target less on their list.
It is risky for both scums and townies, true, any alignment may die in this situation, but I'm pretty damn sure that in a 75% chance of mislynch situation, scums will ALWAYS be happier with D1 lynching... D1 is not about pressure, is about getting to know each and every player's playstyle as in: way of talking, logic behind decisions, thought process, etc.

[Chibiie]

I come from a different background of social deduction games.
My Mafia games were not this long, so I can understand the D1 lynching reason.

[Plotinus]

Saladman27¹ has been prodded. They have (expired on 2019-10-04 05:21:01) to post before I start looking for a replacement.

[teacher]

1. No lynching does not "add a target for scum." Whether or not we lynch today, we must catch a scum by D3. All no-lynching does is turn worst-case D3 lylo (3-2) into mylo (4-2). This actually lowers the odds of successfully lynching scum on a day where scum must be lynched or town loses (hence lylo - lynch or lose/mylo - mislynch and lose)

2. In order to catch a scum by D3, we need all the information we can get. Mislynches provide info. Who is pushing it, who gets onto it at a key time for weak reasons, who avoided the wagon like the plague. Scum is most regularly 1-on, 1-off town wagons. If they are both together, they are both on far more often than both off. Its information like this/vcas that is imperative.

3. There is minimal risk of hitting PRs (and doing so can be good). Wagons must build to L-1, then to intent (absent deadline pressure). At intent, the PR can claim. If they are the real PR, then they dont get lynched, we have chained the NK in a way scum might not have wanted and PRs might protect, and we can do the same VCA but now without even the cost of a town.

4. Literal no downside. Sure, towny could die. But see 1, it doesnt change day structure/number of targets for scum at all.

[Spartan117]

Also, I'm pretty sure that scums will always be happier with a D1 lynch... That's one target less on their list.
It is risky for both scums and townies, true, any alignment may die in this situation, but I'm pretty damn sure that in a 75% chance of mislynch situation, scums will ALWAYS be happier with D1 lynching... D1 is not about pressure, is about getting to know each and every player's playstyle as in: way of talking, logic behind decisions, thought process, etc.

Each persons flip provides information, if you try and keep as many townies alive as long as possible you are going to end up with the mafia just picking town off 1 by 1. The other thing that deaths/flips provide is content, without the flips we have less content for discussion and thus a slower game which also plays into the mafias hands.

[teacher]

If anyone has any questions for me please ask away.

I mean Im content with it but this positioning of dong doesnt seem to match the text of the read, which seems more nullish. I know youre going to react to my case today, but wanted to ping you on this.

[Spartan117]

If anyone has any questions for me please ask away.

I mean Im content with it but this positioning of dong doesnt seem to match the text of the read, which seems more nullish. I know youre going to react to my case today, but wanted to ping you on this.

my breakdown of each person was me going through the chat, 1 page at a time and picking up content that stood out to me, I didnt really feel like there was enough content from merfin, george and yoda mainly with all of them still currently at close enough to half of the posts of the mod and less. Ill only be getting home around 11/12pm tonight gmt so ill try and go through the teacher/dong conversation the best I can then, I'm hoping by that point there will be more content to go through from the others as well, as some have been fairly lackluster at best.

Which slots do you scumread other than dong?