Baton Pass [Game Over!]

[Celestial Coordinates]

As I said I'm skipping two steps ahead on a lot of my reads, assuming that some of my scumreads are correct, and generating new scumreads based on those flips.
My case on you is based on a lot of pre-flip logic that I'm reasonably comfortable in but that I would rather flip the people who are just scummy as individuals as opposed to the ones who look bad if they are in fact scum.

[Cephrir]

One of the biggest reasons that I scumread Wisdom actually is that he keeps putting rule of 3s with like Yukyukz/SS/Gameplay then he had a second one which I forget but it also had one of yukyukz/SS and he has gone to great lengths casing everyone in all the rules of 3 except the one that I actually scumread, ie gameplay.

This seems arbitrary to me. I don't feel like Wisdom has gone to great lengths for anything at all.

Have you made this case?

I have not and I actually don't want to see you lynched today regardless.

This is strange but I guess I won't argue with it.

[Cephrir]

oh. alright, sure.

[Celestial Coordinates]

Outside of pre-flip it's two things which I think have other explanations as I said

1) your reaction to people wanting to flip

wisdom

was weird, can't say it's never a culture thing either though.
2) you reacted to the scumread on you with a lot of AtE. not sure what it means either. certainly not what i expected but otoh my expectations could just as easily be the problem.

[gameplay506]

Why does shoshin get the benefit of the doubt on the wisdom read and I don't gameplay?

Because of the way you and him did it.
Your argument for wisdom was centered around RC, it being basically that Wisdom is trying to get RC to go mad and people trying to piss RC off are scum. That's just a shitty and lazy argument and last game I saw that the very same argument isn't true.
Soshin's argument was an oddly specific one, the effort for which I see more as coming from town than from scum

My problem isn't that it's hard to read - hate the format, but can follow it just fine. My problem is that you aren't really saying anything that you seem to care about/all of your observations seem like they're completely disconnected from one another.

Like, if you're town here and go through 10 pages, I'd expect 1 of 2 things. The first is that you find something that grabs you and it's something that you push and make your voice heard while the second is that you don't find anything that interesting and so you don't spend an hour or whatever creating a post saying that you didn't really find anything. The main point that your post seems to serve is demonstrating to us that you're trying to catch up which is nice and I appreciate it but also has a stronger scum motivation than a town one.

Does that make sense?

Yea I see what you mean
I guess me seeming like I don't care can be explained with how I approached the catch-up post(more in a rush, trying to get into the later pages) or its just my style of posting idk. I don't think I come off as totally disconnected from what I'm saying tho. I stand by what I say and I hope people consider my reads for once but I am also in the process of catch-up with my thoughts on the game being highly likely to change so I would rather not commit to hard onto what I am reading rn.
I guess the two main things of what I am trying to do rn is to 1. Form reads and 2. Present my thought process so that I can make myself more easy to read.

[YukzYuk]

Shoshin literally said part of her case was stuff I picked out

[Nachomamma8]

Also, yukyukz is surface level scummy but I feel very strongly that they are town in spite of that for reasons.

i can see that.
i don't really like how he seems more responsible with holding you responsible for your reads as opposed to engaging them in any way whatsoever, and I don't like how he went from "Shoshin is my townread I'm sorry RC" when Nancy was townreading Shoshin and that's where it seemed the day was going and then immediately flipped when you did, but there are town motivations for both.

[Nachomamma8]

I stand by what I say and I hope people consider my reads for once

sure. what's something from your catchup so far that you'd like for me to address?

[Cephrir]

1) your reaction to people wanting to flip wisdom was weird, can't say it's never a culture thing either though.

wisdom is among the strongest assets to town in this game

[gameplay506]

Shoshin literally said part of her case was stuff I picked out

Where?

[Celestial Coordinates]

1) your reaction to people wanting to flip wisdom was weird, can't say it's never a culture thing either though.

wisdom is among the strongest assets to town in this game

i beg to differ and i don't want to actually have the argument past that so let's leave it at that.

[YukzYuk]

Gameplay what do you think shoshins case on wisdom is?

[Celestial Coordinates]

but in this case I'm less arguing with it being wisdom specifically and more that you seemed to overreact to people having reads at a specific point in the game, which again maybe culture, maybe it's a scumbuddy thing.

[Cephrir]

i'm often suspicious of confidence, but that is a reasonable feeling to have about it

[Nachomamma8]

Gameplay what do you think shoshins case on wisdom is?

hey. i'm having trouble figuring out your interactions with RC and RC's reads this game (namely, Shoshin + Cephrir).
can you help a brother out???

[PMysterious]

Honestly, I'm just not sure where to go with this one. There's a lot going on, but, I'm gathering that Celestial is town, Cephrir is Town, Gay Dance is Town, and everyone else is null (including Nacho, yes, I know). If I'm right on these, then I'm confident that we can get a decent chain going.

Apologies for the lack of activity on my end, I was not expecting the game to be this hectic from the start.

[Nachomamma8]

pm it offended me that you said that we never played together before

[Celestial Coordinates]

weak

entrance by pm but i still don't necessarily scumread it like I do gameplay.

[Celestial Coordinates]

Gameplay was a universal townread like 10 pages into Magical Girls by the way, to give some context to why we're scumreading him here.

[Nachomamma8]

1) your reaction to people wanting to flip wisdom was weird, can't say it's never a culture thing either though.

wisdom is among the strongest assets to town in this game

should be, but i've found him underwhelming so far.

[Celestial Coordinates]

I think even 'a universal townread' doesn't do it justice, he was the single person I think everyone agreed was 100% town the entire game from super early on.

[Celestial Coordinates]

(except Titus)

[Oh]

gameplay s_s yukzuk

who opposes killing those three

I do.

S_S is town.

Why?

Sorry I was gonna respond to that Sakura but I got really distracted

Paranoia can be justified; particularly, I think if Enter himself has misread Nancy in the past he'd be right to be hesitant to townread her here.

Every game I've played with Nancy I have read her correctly for the entirety of the game.

I was scum in every game I've played with Nancy, though.

Yes, correct. The fact that I'm playing this game is a town-tell. It might not appear that way to you, because you don't know me, but that doesn't change the reality of the fact that it's very unlikely I would have confirmed my role if I was scum. I've said this before in other games where I was town, for context, so this isn't something I'm making up. This is my last game for the next two years, and I definitely wouldn't be spending it playing scum. That's just a fact, yes it might seem unethical, but I wasn't even sure I wanted to play more mafia because I was scared of getting a mafia PM. I only signed up for this game because NSG invited me and it seemed like a fun setup to play.

Do you realize that trust tells are bannable offenses and prone to modkill?

I've never used a trust tell, and like I said, this is my last game on the site for over two years. Just for context, I'm leaving in two months -- I'll be serving in the Peace Corps in a small village in Africa and I don't expect to have internet. This IS my last game on here, and if I get banned, then so be it, but I can assure you I wasn't going to play scum for my last game. I'd rather be banned than waste my time doing something I hate.

TBH every time you make an argument like this it makes me want you out of the game just that much more. This kind of argument is not one someone makes who is semmi-competent at mafia and can defend themselves via in-game play, but instead must rely on external factors to plead with people to excuse their screw-ups.

Yeah sorry RC, I changed my mind i dont think Shoshin is scum here.

Why?

GIF head is gonna step out for few days.
Forward all questions to Bitty tyvm

That's unfortunate.

GIF is the one who has been in this specific spot before twice -- RC trying to lynch town me. I'd like to think GIF might have learned from these experiences & might have some insight to contribute. Maybe not.

So have I. So has Ank (somewhat). I think Dannflor was there too.

I disagree with anyone who think angleshooty reasons are bad. They're a fine way to read other players, in my experience. And NSG sometimes uses them in her play, as far as I can tell, so why shouldn't I be able to use them in her game? If you don't like the reasons, then ignore them. But don't tell me not to offer them when I think they're a useful piece of information.

Shoshin if NSG jumped off a bridge would you do it to?

Angleshooting about whether someone is likely to break site rules is not. We should always assume people are playing the game in good faith and that means obeying site rules.

I don't think it's against site rules to not confirm a scum PM & then not play any mafia games for over two years? Like, I dunno. Something about that seems acceptable to me.

Are you actually arguing that it seems acceptable to dodge a game you signed up for because you don't want to play that role, trying to use that as an external advantage because your in game play apparently isn't even good enough for yourself? The "not play mafia games for over two years" is irrelevant unless you're referring to a ban you expect to get. Why would you not having internet access for two years excuse you from having to fall under the same standard as everyone else?

I felt nothing town from RC, Yuk. His early discussion about mechanics is how he starts games as scum when mechanics are relevant -- it's not Ai. His disagreement with me about Wisdom was bad, especially since it wasn't explored at all; he didn't make any attempts to interact with me or understand where I'm coming from, which is very unusual for town him. I don't see anything towny about his play. Do you?

yeah im lil sus on him but idk if anyone else agrees w me

hey can u answer me this

u think that town can get a scum rc lynched? or do you need to be alive for that to happen

...
I'm not sure there's anything towny about this question.

aight chill ima dip now and think about things

I also find it easier to lurk when people call me out for being scum.

{Gay Dance}
{CC, Wisdom, SS, Sakura}
{Shoshin, Nacho, gameplay(?, can't remember anything he's posted)}
{Oversoul, Goodies, Dannflor}
{PMysterious, YukzYuk}

Oh

[PMysterious]

pm it offended me that you said that we never played together before

Looking back, we probably did play before. I recognize the avatar now. I believe it was a Newbie game and you were IC before they removed that. I could be wrong, though. I didn't mean anything personal, just didn't recognize the name.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Shoshin

People scumleaning me literally have no idea to read me. Let me teach you.

Is Oversoul lurking?
If yes, scum.
If no, town.

This concludes our lesson.

Shoshin is conftown in my eyes.

Also Shoshin, congratulations on Peace Corps! That’s amazing.
I applied but I did not get in