Newbie 1959 | Stuff I Found Online Xv | Over

[Spartan117]

@teacher it is now 12:32 midnight I've been up since 6:30am and have only just got home, I will be addressing your convo with dong, but I dont want to do it in the tired state I'm in now i want to analyse it with a clear head, about to go sleep now will be up at 6:30am gmt so basically 6 hours time, I shall try and cover it while at work tomorrow as my boss is not in so I can semi-surf mafiascum then.

[teacher]

I think you're making mountains out of mole hills with post 150.

Can you walk me through WHY you think the contradiction is a molehill. Like explain the town evolution from thinking the response is NAI to AI? Thats kinda why I directed 150 @ you -- I recognize its a little conf-biased, but I need someone to talk with me about it.

@Spartman - no worries mate. Reallife/sanity comes first. ITs why I play weird hours myself.

[GeorgeBailey]

Pretty much because of This Post now. He literally confirmed he was talking about your character, then repeated his point.

On your earlier point:

Can you please tell me how

• "I dont think the
  response
  is telling" and
  
• "I don't like Teacher's
  response
  "

Are complementary? (teacher-y aside: complEment, not complIment, here). Becuase you posted this after 117, yet failed to respond to it, so this looks like more forced shade.

I think he changed his mind after post 67. He didn't think your

immediate

response was telling, but your reaction

afterwards

is.

I'm gonna stop this now lmao, I feel like Dong would have a better explanation on the use of his own words.

[GeorgeBailey]

That being said, I think Chiibie gets some town points for bringing up the idea. I can see why scum would want to push a no lynch but I think it's more likely that newbie town would think that no lynching is beneficial (heck I had the same thought process in my first game). Chiibie seemed to bring up the idea with good intentions so I don't think it's scum motivated.

But couldn't that go both ways? A newb scum could think that's a good idea to bring up.

[Chibiie]

That being said, I think Chiibie gets some town points for bringing up the idea. I can see why scum would want to push a no lynch but I think it's more likely that newbie town would think that no lynching is beneficial (heck I had the same thought process in my first game). Chiibie seemed to bring up the idea with good intentions so I don't think it's scum motivated.

But couldn't that go both ways? A newb scum could think that's a good idea to bring up.

That's just a weird question to ask and a simple, yet complex statement you're bringing.

After studying the "meta" of this forum, I understand how Mafia is played here, however, it is still Mafia and my thought process does not change based on platform I play on. D1 lynching is still a no-no for me, that's just how I play and everyone's logic works different, we find and inspect different clues for the same case.

Anyway, what's interesting to me and would like to ask you, if possible, to walk me through the logic of saying "A newb scum could think that's a good idea to bring up".

Chibii:

Although suggesting that there shouldn't be a d1 lynch seems scummy, It sounds like it was just a misinfo play, rather than a play trying to stall the game.

I mean, logically speaking, you not talking bulls, you're working some logic and everything that a player says can be interpreted as a townplay or scumplay, however, I see a little bit of contradiction here.

Sorry for quoting these in the wrong order, but I'm a messy mind myself, my thought process and logic work a little slower due to trying my best to work in-depth details.

Anyway, I don't see you playing scum at all, on my TL you were around mid-way, kind of, however, scumreading Salad, which from my point of view looks very netural (I cannot get a proper read out of his posts and actions), looks unjust to me. Salad play in his last post, in my opinion, is a scumbait and now he's waiting on people to react on his action in order to scumread someone.

I honestly have no idea if that's any relevant to Salad's true intent behind that play or he's actually just very indecisive and has legit used a website to decide on the vote lmao.

I agree, we need to lynch anyone today, rn I honestly don’t care if it’s a mislynch today, info is better none. So let’s spice things up.
Using random.org I will vote one of the top 2 wagons.
Heads = Spartan
Tails = Dong
random.org says

Tails

VOTE: Dong

I would like to know everyone's opinion on this play.
As I mentioned earlier, even if I ruined it now, I believe it is a scumbait and I consider this a townie-play.
My updated list is below. Let me know what you guys think.

Spoiler:

Town:

Salad

AaronFrost

Spartan (I'm leaving my vote on him, but it means nothing)

Teacher

Neutral:

Dongempire (I'm still studying him and his posts)

Merfin (Haven't seen him joining and move the game in a direction yet)

Yoda (Following along, taking part into arguments, however, not very big impacts on the game progression)

Scum:

GeorgeBailey

[Yodavader]

Because I think Merfin is safer choice over you.

Plus, 122 doesn't make much sense, wouldn't we know that we're on a team? Why would I vote him?

Scum1 will vote for scum2 to distance themselves, especially if they know that the other person is caught. That way, they(1) can say that they were town because they(1) were part of the vote that lynched scum2.

This could also be used to disprove a cop roleclaim if it's the last day. The cop could roleclaim and say "I investigated player X and he is scum". But if scum1 was on the bandwagon before it was proved to be a bandwagon, then they could argue that the cop roleclaim is actually scum and just trying to fake claim so that the town can vote for a "townie" and scum wins. You know what I mean?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.07

Using windmills for electricity instead of milling grain is a pretty modern thing but there was this one guy in the 19th century who had the idea a century ahead of his time and managed to build one. It worked, supplied power flawlessly for 20 years, but over that time the city's power grid got bigger and cheaper and then he didn't repair it.

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Dongempire

(3): teacher, AaronFrost, Saladman27

Spartan117

(2): Merfin, Chibiie

Saladman27

(1): Spartan117

GeorgeBailey

(1): Yodavader

Merfin

(1): GeorgeBailey

teacher

(1): Dongempire

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-09 09:00:00).

Mod notes:

Dongempire is V/LA until 6 October.

[*]

Provable randomness

- is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.

The idea behind this rule is that mafia is a psychological game where we try to guess the colour of people's role cards based on their behaviour. random.org does not give different results to people with different coloured role cards, so if everybody used random.org then we could just simulate the entire game in python without involving any humans at all.

On the other hand, if as part of your private decision making process, you roll a dice, see that it lands on Plotinus, decide that you don't want to vote Plotinus after all, and keep rolling, because it helps you clarify your opinions to yourself, then that's fine. You may privately use randomness and then make up a non-randomness reason afterwards. You may lie about the result of your eeny-meenie-miney-moe strategy, saying that it landed on Plotinus when actually it landed on PenguinPower, or to omit the detail that as a child, you memorised the number of syllables eeyn-meenie-miney-moe so that you would always know where to start counting.

The hard line here is you definitely can't do

Original Roll String: 1d2 (STATIC)

1 2-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

if it's a 1 I vote Plotinus if it's a 2 I vote PenguinPower. And you cannot post a screenshot of random.org but I would be happiest if you didn't use randomness at all.[/area]

[teacher]

As I mentioned earlier, even if I ruined it now, I believe it is a scumbait and I consider this a townie-play.

By scumbait, do you mean doing something wolfie to see who will hop onto your wagon?

If so, why do you stand by that after Salad saying it was truly indecisiveness?

[Saladman27]

As I mentioned earlier, even if I ruined it now, I believe it is a scumbait and I consider this a townie-play.

Lmao, you must be out of your gourd if you think I can do what is called a pro gamer move... I did it both because indecisiveness and get info through a flip. Town needs a lynch today, but I don’t know who to vote for. Tbh, any flip is great info and a great convo starter.

[Saladman27]

Actually, VOTE: Spartan for now, I’ll wait for dong to come back from v/la.

[teacher]

Spartans a nonoption for me.
Salads vote has somewhat soured me on dong, but he’s still in my lynchpool.
So are salad himself and merfins slot.
We need to start consolidating.
I’ll happily vote w Aaron and sparty, we need to be forming a block and those are my two strongest reads Rn.
School for the day.

[AaronFrost]

Hmm I'm having a hard time getting a read on Salad. I could see him flipping scum but I'm not all that confident that he will.
It does feel a bit like he's playing up his meta which is something I could see scum Salad doing.

I'd rather not lynch the inactive slot personally and just wait for them to come back/be replaced. Inactivity is not a reliable scum tell although I do have yet to actually go though Merfin's posts. I'll probably do that once my internet is back up since I have a guy coming to work on it today.

Dong is probably the best place for my vote right now but with it being V/LA, all we can do is wait for a response from it.

[Plotinus]

Merfin is being replaced for inactivity. If they return before I find somebody, they can stay.

[Yodavader]

What are your thoughts on a replacement player and the info from the replaced player. Do you play them as new players/clean slate or do you play them as they are both the same player? I have been lucky and have never had a game with a replaced player.

[teacher]

It’s the same slot - I use both to inform reads.

@Aaron-I actually like lynching inactices D1. Actives will eventually spew alignment, and inactives tend to be lylo liabilities if town. I have longer posts on this theory written up that I will dig up later.

[teacher]

I have longer posts on this theory written up that I will dig up later.

Here is me writing up the theory most recently. Notably, both times it resulted in scum lynches.

I’ve expressed my thoughts on similar slots before:

(im good w/ your lynch......) “for a reason that seems callous -- if red, which I think is >rand, great. IF green, still not bad. I do believe in the 1:1 on and off wagon, so a green flip would have told me to reexamine my townreads. But given that [creeper] has not contributed any scumhunting OR (and the OR is in fact important here) claimed VLA to return at a date certain, even a green flip would have also removed a liability. This a lesson I learned a little later in my time on MS, but it makes sense to me. D1 and D2, you should of course try to scum hunt. But you should also get rid of town liabilities -- nullish folk that scum wont kill. Town liabilities should not make it to lylo because (1) they are an easy mislynch for scum to push and win the game, and (2) they havent been invested enough to have game-saving reads themselves.”

[Donempire]

I agree, we need to lynch anyone today, rn I honestly don’t care if it’s a mislynch today, info is better none.

I agree with this sentiment. A scum lynch is always preferable but if your hands are tied then going for an info lynch is always a good option.

I agree, we need to lynch anyone today, rn I honestly don’t care if it’s a mislynch today, info is better none. So let’s spice things up.
Using random.org I will vote one of the top 2 wagons.
Heads = Spartan
Tails = Dong
random.org says

Tails

VOTE: Dong

I dont like this however.
You said that you wanted an info lynch, yet here you are flipping a coin to decide that. If you are supporting a lynch on a basis that says this lynch will give us info, then you should be prepared to make associations based on such lynch.
I havent interacted with anyone here enough to justify a lynch on me right now. If you are lynching me, then do it because you think im scummy, because you will not gain info from my lynch, mostly because i havent interacted but also because you clearly dont care what lynch gets through as long as one does.

[Plotinus]

Gimm1ck replaces Merfin. Please welcome them!

[Gimm1ck]

Disclaimer; English is not my first language, so pardon any inevitable grammar mistakes that’ll happen.

I’m a moderator on a chat-based real time online mafia room. This is my third game total on this site and my first in around half a year.

I’m busy for the rest of the day, but I’ll read game, give thoughts & be on tonight. Wall_post_incoming.jpeg

[Gimm1ck]

Shameless Newb question, how do you bookmark a thread

[teacher]

Shameless Newb question, how do you bookmark a thread

Top right. But I also use this sometimes when I mod.

Site Tools

For those new to BBcode forums, there are multiple tools to help you (and others) navigate. The ISO link next to each post number will allow you to see all posts made by that single player in the thread. On bottom of the thread, you can set up 2 or 3 player ISOs to see interactions; "display posts by user", "+", and "+" are the links to do so. You can also search a game for all mentions of a player by using their name (or nickname) in the search this topic box on top; * functions as a wildcard in this search. When you want to refer to a specific post, you can provide a link by using the post tags: e.g., "in [

post]0[

/post], the moderator provided the player list."

In addition, the ego search function allows you to see all threads in which you have ever posted. This can be accessed through "view your posts" on the top of the screen. Finally, clicking a player's name will take you to their profile, where you can ego search them ("view their topics"), search within their posts for similar wording ("search user's posts"), or otherwise conduct meta research - be careful not to talk about ongoing games, however.

[Gimm1ck]

Why do you want teacher to claim? Do you intend on lynching him today?

I have no desire for teacher to claim unless he needs to, but I have 0 alignment reads so far, so I have no issue with hammering anyone here provided I think they are scum.

It is even worse than this, which is illogical as heck. What does hammering me here give you? Does it create alignment reads?

I get that wagons are good for reactions, but why be ok with hammering in a game that’s on page 2 and has eight days before deadline? Like, really?

As an aside on the wagon thing, I kinda like what you did but lolhammers are a thing, especially when people haven’t checked into the threat. I usually wait for everyone to post before we get to L-1 because some people rvs without reading the thread and then you’ve bought two mislynches (the wagonee and the innocent hammered) for the price of one.

Why do you want teacher to claim? Do you intend on lynching him today?

I have no desire for teacher to claim unless he needs to, but I have 0 alignment reads so far, so I have no issue with hammering anyone here provided I think they are scum.

So you'd rather hammer someone on page 2 and somehow hope that produces reads instead of letting your reads develop as the game progresses and deciding on a better lynch that way?

Also your even though it was random, self-voting is usually seen as an anti-town move, even during RVS.

VOTE: Spartan117

So if I say "I have 0 alignment reads so far" and follow it up by saying "I have no issue with hammering anyone here provided I think they are scum", where in that did I say I wanted to hammer someone page 2, are you by chance Cathy Newman in disguise?

Additionally please tell me what is anti-town about self voting during the RVS on the first page? What does it tell you about my alignment if anything?

Where in that did I say I wanted to hammer someone page 2
Additionally please tell me what is anti-town about self voting during the RVS on the first page? What does it tell you about my alignment if anything?

1. Nowhere, but you opened up an opportunity for a lolhammer or your partner to hammer.
2. In my last game, one player self voted in RVS and everyone jumped on that vote.

So yeah, it’s a really bad and scummy idea to L-1 this early, especially in a 9p game. VOTE: Spartan117

1. I wanted to get a reaction and I got 3, you're welcome.

2. If someone votes themselves and others jump on the wagon and vote him, what does that say about their alignment? What was the alignment of this player in your last game?

I liked Aarons reaction felt townie to me

Saladmans reaction felt very much like scum trying to hope on a wagon, as an SE I expect more from you than your response in #46, I would have hoped more experienced players would understand the full motive behind that game advancing content, no comments on any of the other people who are on Teachers wagon?

VOTE: Saladman27

teacher is a pretty relaxed player overall so i dont think the response is telling.

Salads response of course views things from a very flat angle, i know that spartan wasnt trying to get a quick mislynch. Though i am happy the game gained traction, i cant townread spartan for it because either faction could do it. I think aarons reaction to the vote is also pretty bad, it reads as though hes more concerned on where he is at when/if a lynch occurs rather than getting a scum lynch through. The whole convo reads like TvS and if i had to pick a side i'd say aarons the goon here.

2. If someone votes themselves and others jump on the wagon and vote him, what does that say about their alignment? What was the alignment of this player in your last game?

Nothing, but it’s anti-town to start the wagon. The player was VT, self voted and did nothing but made him look scummy. The next day he self hammered.

Anti town doesnt mean scum, and thats what you are insuniating with your vote on spartan. Either that or you are pushing him on no premises other than self voting might be bad in rvs?
I mean, if people are jumping on a self vote and hammering in rvs you should be focusing more on them rather than the person making a joke vote.

Ahh blin formatting is hard and wall posts are inconvenient, guess we're doing this the hard way

Not a fan of Aaron's RVS not because of his flavor but his readiness to justify his flavor / reactions to people saying it was too much (post 22/24)

[Spartan117]

So from reading back through Teacher and Dongs conversation on Teachers reaction to being put to L-1, this is how I see it;
The first relevent interaction by Dong in #56 he states

teacher is a pretty relaxed player overall so i dont think the response is telling.

Which I could understand, from my pov it did look like a fairly natural reaction to being put on L-1 so early, but I personally could see it being the same reaction from both sides.
Then in #102 dong switches their stance to this;

I dont like teachers response to getting wagoned.

Which I feel is because Dong had promised content and when they got round to putting some content out it consisted primarily of this topic, no fresh reads on anyone else at that time.
Here Teacher points out the potential of the relation of the switch of mindset to the pressure teacher had put on dongs lurking.

I’ll note the reversal of position in the exact same post happens after 97, when I express some interest in Dongs lurking.

Here Dong explains their read a bit more, in that they thought it was a natural reaction for scum, this I personally dont agree with, as I could see both TownTeacher and ScumTeacher acting this way.
I found the comment saying "A panicking scum tries to get out of l1 as quickly as possible before a lolhammer" interesting, as yes obviously lolhammers are possible from town, more often than not newbtown, but in my opinion if scum is on L-1 there is less of a chance to be lolhammered as they cant be lolhammered by scum, while a townie pov, would see it as being lolhammered by newbtown and scum pretending to be newtown. but like I said I could see the reaction from both povs, I dont think its exclusive to one alignment.

Im pretty sure that teacher actually thought you were voting him. And his reaction is natural.
For scum.
Expanding on post 102 (or perhaps reiterating) an experienced town player would keep calm and explain spartan that this isnt something he should be doing and level with him. A panicking scum tries to get out of l1 as quickly as possible before a lolhammer.

Viewing just Teacher and Dongs posts on their own gave me a perspective I didnt have up until now on Dongs posts, Dong voted Teacher in RVS in their first post and since that point has only produced reads on Teacher and Salad, with either a Scum read or a Scum Lean, in 18 posts there havent been any real pushes on anyone else, which I looks as though they are trying to appear to be scum hunting but only focusing their efforts in a very limited direction.

I know there has been limited activity by a few people on here which is frustrating and it makes it difficult to make reads on them or understand their play when there is limited content produced, I know a townlynch still provides some info but I really wish we had more activity so we could hunt properly.

[Gimm1ck]

I have no idea why a dozen quotes popped out of nowhere but uh ig we continue

[Spartan117]

What are your thoughts on a replacement player and the info from the replaced player. Do you play them as new players/clean slate or do you play them as they are both the same player? I have been lucky and have never had a game with a replaced player.

I think you try and view it from the new person the best you can but always keep the activities of the previous person in mind when evaluating their slot, although their previous player didnt contribute much to evaluate :/