newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[Geyde]

Yeah. People need to discuss things today. I want to know specifically why faustiv and I have had no one talking about us pretty much all day.

I posted early in the day that I didn't want any focus to be on you two because I felt it was really easy to generate content on you both given EoD1

[Geyde]

I'm not actively trying to convince you that eth0s is scum. I never set out to do that.

What was your goal with opening up that avenue in that case?
I'm not sure what you

actually

think about the slot

@Draynth
What do you think about Ethos's slot
I'm still not sure

[eth0s]

I think I'm psyching myself out. Honestly egix might just be scum here. I look through old spangled posts like how he transitioned from being the first voter on nmsa wagon to having a seemingly organic revelation and starting the wagon on me -- why would scum do that? admittedly I dont remember and didnt reread the context of the situation from all players there but I don't see why scum would do what he did. I think his point about shading me in the case of an egix green flip is bad but there is one other explanation i can think of. Plus I really just think egix flips red in isolation.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: egix

L-1

[Geyde]

Sorry for not being as active lately, I've been studying a bit harder than normal - and that's cut into this game.

I'm pretty stoic on my opinions right now and I'm not sure where to go from here. Right now I am indifferent towards eth0s/Dyranth and scummy towards Fausitv/Egix. Here's why.

I feel like although eth0s/Dyranth have both done things that are scummy, I believe that their content can be looked at more closely as they are providing at least SOMETHING that we can analyze and use. I understand that by saying that, I am implying that activity = townieness, which isn't my feelings entirely. However, I do think just like how Geyde took a deeper dive into Egix/Dyranth this round, I feel like those who aren't adding to the conversation much and are just waiting in the background hurt us more than anything else.

Which brings me to Spangled.

I know Spangled has been a main town read for quite a while now, but I simply don't understand how someone who gave such an elaborate analysis at the beginning, really tried helping us, and then was very confident about the eth0s/aidan scum vote not being an active part of today's voting sequence. Ever since we decided that eth0s wasn't the way to go, Spangled as stayed relatively silent.

So, Spangled - I'd love to know where you are in this game at the moment, especially since you have been characterized as the "main town sided" player since pretty much the beginning.

Spoiler: Spangled

Making this post so that I don't get prodded/replaced myself! Not entirely convinced of Spangled's town-ness just yet but I (hopefully) have a better read on them than either faüstiv or Airan. So I'm choosing to put my trust in their post about newb-scum behaviour and agree with both faüstiv and Airan lynch-wagons. I am a little bit torn as to who I should vote for though. I still think something's up with faüstiv and am leaning towards lynching them based on gut instinct but in terms of utility, I think an Airan lynch would probably provide more information.

What more information would an Airan lynch provide than a faüstiv one?
And what do you think is ‘up’ about faüstiv?

Was thinking along the lines that up until recently, Airan had been more interactive with the game and providing opinions/commentary (even if it was all filler). Between the two potential lynches, I thought that the less vague defence would've come from Airan. This post is past its deadline anyway, with Airan being replaced.

"Still think something's up" meant not willing to completely abandon faüstiv as a lynch target just yet. I posted my opinion on faüstiv in 121 and at this point in the game, my opinion largely hasn't changed. What I neglected to say in 121 is that I think that kind of play is scummy because it feels like faüstiv is withholding information and I believe a townie rarely has reason to withhold information (unless they're a special townie with an identity they want to preserve).

@Veg
What kind of information do you think faüstiv is withholding; what do you mean by that?

How easily this Airan wagon has built up is slightly concerning and makes me think there's at least 1 scum on it, but given he hasn't been here to defend himself that (gut) feeling doesn't have as much merit as it would typically.

Aye.
If there had to be 1 scum on it, who do you think it would be?

@Draynth
What would you say has been better about Egix than NMSA?

Could you summarise what has stood out to you as scummy from NMSA?

I want to say DADV given that thread has been both completely warped and died since the push on Airan started. If Airan were to be scum, then why isn't there any pressure being put on CFDs?
NMSA had a particularly shitty progression in 221 completely shifting his mind despite not showing any drop in confidence in scum!Jam, but that hasn't been expanded upon beyond a token comment by Draynth. Even then, there hasn't been any movement in thread toward pushing that further.
This might be clouded by Airan's activity completely dropping off the map, but I think the wagon on Airan is entirely impure

I am starting to worry about this vote as well. I think if Airan was here we would have a more clear indication of what to do. I think Spangled's analysis was good but I actually think it revealed more about Spam/Faustiv/Egix. All 3 were more than likely on a different wagon (Spam on Me, Faustiv on Geyde, Egix up in the air), and then saw Spangled's analysis and went on that.

More specifically, we have Spam/Faustiv going from VERY strong opinions about their scumreads to going on the Airan train, and this was when they were both the lead vote getters at the time.

I agree with what others have said, I believe at least ONE scum is among those 4 voters. If you had to ask me, my gut still tells me that my main scum read is Faustiv.

@Jamelia
So you think Airan isn’t scum?
What part of my analysis do you disagree?

Catching up

Man I don’t want to play against you when you’re scum dude.
Alternatively, show yourself to be obvtown in your catchup and I can ignore those almost-scumtells from Airan.

They say that sometimes when someone reps in as town, you can almost know that they’re town almost immediately; I have felt this before and I’m (almost) feeling it now.
Which honestly conflicts with my gut-feelings on Airan, and this is a weird feeling — one gut-read with stuff backing it up vs another gut read with some stuff backing it up.

But I’m definitely erring on the side of town!eth0s, and this is, by and large, because of his read on Veg — he goes against the flow here, where there had been a narrative proposing scum!veg building prior to my Airan case, and it also agrees with my read on Veg in a way I can understand.
And I can see Airan as newbtown making those posts, and, honestly, I’ve come to realise that I’ve only seen Airan from the perspective of ‘this is newbscum and here’s why’, rather than thinking about whether or not newbtown could make those kinds of posts too. And newbtown... could, I think.
It annoys me, but I think this is probably town.
UNVOTE:

And the game thread really did slow straight down when the Airan-wagon started CFD’ing. Like maybe that’s not indicative of much because Airan wasn’t here, but I feel like scum was either on the wagon or waiting for a good excuse — further arguments for scum!Airan or a sucky defense from him, I imagine — to hop on.

I do kinda feel a bit buddied though dude. Why do I feature so much in your catchup?
And if we lynched faüstiv today and they flipped green, who would you think would be the scumteam then?

@Egix
Could you give us an updated readslist, perhaps?

like you can't even challenge my case on you, you have nothing to say about how flat out wrong you are about how nmsa's wagon formed more organically than mine did, nothing to say about your blind sheep on the wagon, nothing to say about the very person you sheeped changing stances because the 5 lines of completely NAI newb posts mean nothing compared to the things I have pointed out and provided today. You are scared scum backed into a corner and even in this fantasy land where I get lynched today you go down so fast tomorrow it's not even funny

This is town!eth0s. Disclaimer: I haven’t seen his scumgame.
But this is how he has gotten as town; some overstatement, emotion in his defense and his willingness to attack. Often overstatement and, regrettably, half-threats that can sometimes seem to undermine some of his credibility but, I think,

are

town-indicative. This, I think, is it.

I think the fault for the NMSA wagon is on me, though; I knew he played lazy D1s and I didn’t say it. I thought I had expressed some of my doubt, but I really didn’t.

ok cool. NMSA should have claimed cop.

It would have been wise.
By the way, faüstiv, why are you so confident you will determine whether or not eth0s gets lynched or not?

I found his rants town sided but him self-voting and then hammering on the cop is ridiculous.

You think self-voting is scummy?

1) Reads early on in the game are very rarely genuine and if they are, they are gut scumreads at best. Sometimes it's good to shake the tree and see what falls.

Look, I can understand ‘shaking the tree’, to an extent, but... you can’t be disingenuous with your reads. If you’re town, that’s a good way to get lynched, because scum are always disingenuous with their reads because they make them up, and so if your reads aren’t genuine, you’re behaving like scum, with the worldview of scum behind you — which people will pick up on, and, rightfully or not, get you lynched for.

Don’t do it.

1) Reads early on in the game are very rarely genuine and if they are, they are gut scumreads at best. Sometimes it's good to shake the tree and see what falls.

Look, I can understand ‘shaking the tree’, to an extent, but... you can’t be disingenuous with your reads. If you’re town, that’s a good way to get lynched, because scum are always disingenuous with their reads because they make them up, and so if your reads aren’t genuine, you’re behaving like scum, with the worldview of scum behind you — which people will pick up on, and, rightfully or not, get you lynched for.

Don’t do it.

I had a scumread on you, albeit a light one based on gut. I wanted to pursue t. That’s not being disingenuous.

Yeah, I get that. This isn’t about my specific case. Just generally: only genuine reads.

Why do you reckon Jam is an unattainable lynch for scum!Draynth, Geyde?
And what’s your read on faüstiv at the moment?

@Spangled
Where are you at in regards to gamestate
I'm not seeing a direction from your recent posts

I also have concerns about Spangled that I haven't shared yet... I really want to hear more from him so I can decide how I feel though.

I will say that I no longer feel he is the obvtown I originally took him for. With veg being gone that hurts me a lot actually.

Spangled had an active D1 but has said very little D2. Is Spangled complacent scum who is choosing not to post as much now that the player pool is smaller and each player is under more scrutiny or has he just been legitimately busy.

I want answers from Spangled too. Spangled, what your thoughts on D2 thus far?

[eth0s]

Yeah. People need to discuss things today. I want to know specifically why faustiv and I have had no one talking about us pretty much all day.

I posted early in the day that I didn't want any focus to be on you two because I felt it was really easy to generate content on you both given EoD1

I'm not actively trying to convince you that eth0s is scum. I never set out to do that.

What was your goal with opening up that avenue in that case?
I'm not sure what you

actually

think about the slot

@Draynth
What do you think about Ethos's slot
I'm still not sure

how do these two statements make sense together? specifically regarding me

[Geyde]

I hope everything is okay with the hurricane draynth.

I have some objections to the logic in your spam posts I am going to get to later

Thank you.
It seemed to lose a lot of it's power (Is this how you describe a hurricane? I've no idea) overnight so it wasn't as bad as anticipated. Just going to be a lot of rain tonight.

Which brings me to Spangled.

I know Spangled has been a main town read for quite a while now, but I simply don't understand how someone who gave such an elaborate analysis at the beginning, really tried helping us, and then was very confident about the eth0s/aidan scum vote not being an active part of today's voting sequence. Ever since we decided that eth0s wasn't the way to go, Spangled as stayed relatively silent.

So, Spangled - I'd love to know where you are in this game at the moment, especially since you have been characterized as the "main town sided" player since pretty much the beginning.

This is actually something that I had noticed but never really came to the front of my mind to share

also this

[Geyde]

Yeah. People need to discuss things today. I want to know specifically why faustiv and I have had no one talking about us pretty much all day.

I posted early in the day that I didn't want any focus to be on you two because I felt it was really easy to generate content on you both given EoD1

I'm not actively trying to convince you that eth0s is scum. I never set out to do that.

What was your goal with opening up that avenue in that case?
I'm not sure what you

actually

think about the slot

@Draynth
What do you think about Ethos's slot
I'm still not sure

how do these two statements make sense together? specifically regarding me

They do not go together
I am shit at navigating this site's layout

[Geyde]

Wait, no.
I read it wrong and thought I had them in the same post

[faüstiv]

Rereading Spangled/Egix

They've interacted with each other in a way that would draw attention to the two (mainly during d1 with Egix wagoning Spangled, the talk regarding 66).
Additionally, Egix attached himself to the case Spangled made regarding Airan's slot with 213 and 286.

I'm going off of the assumption that Airan's wagon was expected to flip scum, but didn't due to Ethos's performance after replacing in.

If anything, I think only one of them could be scum because in the case of Airan flipping d1.
If Egix is scum with scum spangled, it would make much more sense for him in scumpov to wait until later to join the wagon on Airan instead of restricting their options.
If Egix is scum with a town Spangled, attaching himself to the lynch wagon would give him the ability to deflect onto Spangled's case if Airan's slot flipped v.

Objectively, Egix's play directly disadvantages him severely were they to be scum with spangled. It's not the type of small mistake that scum might make because of scum's tendency to avoid being directly associated with each other like the plague, nor do I think it is something Egix plans in the long game for.
Ergo, I don't think that they are scum with each other.

I don't think he acted the way he did if Airan was scum since his explanation would stick out as bussing to any level of rereading. The wagon flipping onto NMSA wasn't guaranteed, and his progression would look extremely shitty were he to switch off of a wagon that flipped scum in retrospect after fully buying the case.
He basically gets outed after Airan flips and vice versa

Three BWs day one:

Spangled: Egix96, Geyde
NMSA: Geyde, Dryanth, eth0s, UrVeggieM8, Egix96, eth0s
Airan: Spangled, faustiv, NMSA, Egix96

Spangled was not voting at the time of NMSA's lynch.

Re. your analysis. I can see where you are coming from, but Airan was not on L1 for very long (Egix put him there on post 236, I took him out of it in post 238). Airan was replaced in post 247. I don't see how scum have the foresight to see that the Airan lynch goes through when:

- The player was inactive and likely to be replaced, which is something you're discounting from your analysis

- Was not on L1 for very long

- Overall paranoia that comes with voting someone in L1

eth0s joined the game from post 310 onwards. He was on L2 at the time. If this slot was to be lynched, it wouldn't be because of Airan, it would have been because of Airan and whoever replaced him. Airan wasn't active at the time of his L1 (or L2), ergo town wouldn't have let the lynch go through until a replacement had been sought.

Your post re. the NMSA wagon wasn't guaranteed - agree but it was either going to be me or him that was going to be lynched D1. Both Spangled and Egix scumread me D1. What if I ended up being the D1 lynch and not NMSA?

I still find the progression from 75 (Egix voting Spangled) to sheeping him in 236 odd. Maybe that vote on Spangled was a smokescreen to stop us from thinking that they are the team? I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into it.

[faüstiv]

Yeah. People need to discuss things today. I want to know specifically why faustiv and I have had no one talking about us pretty much all day.

I posted early in the day that I didn't want any focus to be on you two because I felt it was really easy to generate content on you both given EoD1

I'm not actively trying to convince you that eth0s is scum. I never set out to do that.

What was your goal with opening up that avenue in that case?
I'm not sure what you

actually

think about the slot

@Draynth
What do you think about Ethos's slot
I'm still not sure

how do these two statements make sense together? specifically regarding me

They do not go together
I am shit at navigating this site's layout

I've found opening two tabs easier.

[Geyde]

621 was especially weird, and both came out at different points in thread.
I brought them both back up since what I did may have influenced thread's lack of focus on you/Faustiv as you mentioned, and I was rereading and still wasn't sure of the answer to 633.

[eth0s]

I think unless egix comes in here and blows my mind I am okay with just lynching him today. It's a hard game and I can't commit to anything without seeing something that makes me not want to. Aside from egix's scummy gameplay he looks horrible on VCA. I guess that could make him a prime mislynch candidate if he's town but this line of paranoid thinking has given me two separate headaches today so I think I will settle for what looks scummiest at face value for now. And that's Egix.

I actually hate that spangled had to put me and faustiv in this weird state of being something depending on the egix flip and I still think it was somewhat scummy to do that but his prior posts just look so bloody town especially in conjunction with his meta. idk who an egix partner for sure yet but I have a couple ideas that I need to think on. I just wanna throw it out there that I think geyde/spangled have really good partner equity but if they're the team we probably lost anyway

[eth0s]

The lack of a counter wagon here really makes me uneasy. And the fact ^{citation needed} that no one is NOT okay with an egix lynch also makes me uneasy. But I'm not sure if that's AI because he is so scummy I think he would be bused today.

[eth0s]

However in line with my prior tinfoil thinking, I still can't help but wonder why someone wouldn't be deflecting onto me or faustiv because a bus doesn't seem necessary with us two in the game.

[Geyde]

Rereading Spangled/Egix

They've interacted with each other in a way that would draw attention to the two (mainly during d1 with Egix wagoning Spangled, the talk regarding 66).
Additionally, Egix attached himself to the case Spangled made regarding Airan's slot with 213 and 286.

I'm going off of the assumption that Airan's wagon was expected to flip scum, but didn't due to Ethos's performance after replacing in.

If anything, I think only one of them could be scum because in the case of Airan flipping d1.
If Egix is scum with scum spangled, it would make much more sense for him in scumpov to wait until later to join the wagon on Airan instead of restricting their options.
If Egix is scum with a town Spangled, attaching himself to the lynch wagon would give him the ability to deflect onto Spangled's case if Airan's slot flipped v.

Objectively, Egix's play directly disadvantages him severely were they to be scum with spangled. It's not the type of small mistake that scum might make because of scum's tendency to avoid being directly associated with each other like the plague, nor do I think it is something Egix plans in the long game for.
Ergo, I don't think that they are scum with each other.

I don't think he acted the way he did if Airan was scum since his explanation would stick out as bussing to any level of rereading. The wagon flipping onto NMSA wasn't guaranteed, and his progression would look extremely shitty were he to switch off of a wagon that flipped scum in retrospect after fully buying the case.
He basically gets outed after Airan flips and vice versa

Three BWs day one:

Spangled: Egix96, Geyde
NMSA: Geyde, Dryanth, eth0s, UrVeggieM8, Egix96, eth0s
Airan: Spangled, faustiv, NMSA, Egix96

Spangled was not voting at the time of NMSA's lynch.

Re. your analysis. I can see where you are coming from, but Airan was not on L1 for very long (Egix put him there on post 236, I took him out of it in post 238). Airan was replaced in post 247. I don't see how scum have the foresight to see that the Airan lynch goes through when:

- The player was inactive and likely to be replaced, which is something you're discounting from your analysis

- Was not on L1 for very long

- Overall paranoia that comes with voting someone in L1

eth0s joined the game from post 310 onwards. He was on L2 at the time. If this slot was to be lynched, it wouldn't be because of Airan, it would have been because of Airan and whoever replaced him. Airan wasn't active at the time of his L1 (or L2), ergo town wouldn't have let the lynch go through until a replacement had been sought.

Your post re. the NMSA wagon wasn't guaranteed - agree but it was either going to be me or him that was going to be lynched D1. Both Spangled and Egix scumread me D1. What if I ended up being the D1 lynch and not NMSA?

I still find the progression from 75 (Egix voting Spangled) to sheeping him in 236 odd. Maybe that vote on Spangled was a smokescreen to stop us from thinking that they are the team? I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into it.

VCA makes a lot of sense actually.
Wouldn't it be easier, if Egix is scum, for him to just vote Airan and just wait until the replacement makes a move to then make his movement of votes? The play he made makes more sense if he's town and paranoid of a quickhammer, rather than (as scum) being sussed for putting a player on L1 or potentially leading to his partner's death.
I'll need to think about the vote/unvote more

If both Spangled and Egix were scum, wouldn't it make more sense in their progression to CFD onto you?

75 could be trying to force an interaction between the two, but that's a reach imo since it got no attention in thread, which would be odd for a forced interaction since those usually completely change thread direction.

[Geyde]

I think unless egix comes in here and blows my mind I am okay with just lynching him today. It's a hard game and I can't commit to anything without seeing something that makes me not want to. Aside from egix's scummy gameplay he looks horrible on VCA. I guess that could make him a prime mislynch candidate if he's town but this line of paranoid thinking has given me two separate headaches today so I think I will settle for what looks scummiest at face value for now. And that's Egix.

I actually hate that spangled had to put me and faustiv in this weird state of being something depending on the egix flip and I still think it was somewhat scummy to do that but his prior posts just look so bloody town especially in conjunction with his meta. idk who an egix partner for sure yet but I have a couple ideas that I need to think on. I just wanna throw it out there that I think geyde/spangled have really good partner equity but if they're the team we probably lost anyway

I really think Egix partner should be resolved today before we ever try to lynch them

[faüstiv]

Rereading Spangled/Egix

They've interacted with each other in a way that would draw attention to the two (mainly during d1 with Egix wagoning Spangled, the talk regarding 66).
Additionally, Egix attached himself to the case Spangled made regarding Airan's slot with 213 and 286.

I'm going off of the assumption that Airan's wagon was expected to flip scum, but didn't due to Ethos's performance after replacing in.

If anything, I think only one of them could be scum because in the case of Airan flipping d1.
If Egix is scum with scum spangled, it would make much more sense for him in scumpov to wait until later to join the wagon on Airan instead of restricting their options.
If Egix is scum with a town Spangled, attaching himself to the lynch wagon would give him the ability to deflect onto Spangled's case if Airan's slot flipped v.

Objectively, Egix's play directly disadvantages him severely were they to be scum with spangled. It's not the type of small mistake that scum might make because of scum's tendency to avoid being directly associated with each other like the plague, nor do I think it is something Egix plans in the long game for.
Ergo, I don't think that they are scum with each other.

I don't think he acted the way he did if Airan was scum since his explanation would stick out as bussing to any level of rereading. The wagon flipping onto NMSA wasn't guaranteed, and his progression would look extremely shitty were he to switch off of a wagon that flipped scum in retrospect after fully buying the case.
He basically gets outed after Airan flips and vice versa

Three BWs day one:

Spangled: Egix96, Geyde
NMSA: Geyde, Dryanth, eth0s, UrVeggieM8, Egix96, eth0s
Airan: Spangled, faustiv, NMSA, Egix96

Spangled was not voting at the time of NMSA's lynch.

Re. your analysis. I can see where you are coming from, but Airan was not on L1 for very long (Egix put him there on post 236, I took him out of it in post 238). Airan was replaced in post 247. I don't see how scum have the foresight to see that the Airan lynch goes through when:

- The player was inactive and likely to be replaced, which is something you're discounting from your analysis

- Was not on L1 for very long

- Overall paranoia that comes with voting someone in L1

eth0s joined the game from post 310 onwards. He was on L2 at the time. If this slot was to be lynched, it wouldn't be because of Airan, it would have been because of Airan and whoever replaced him. Airan wasn't active at the time of his L1 (or L2), ergo town wouldn't have let the lynch go through until a replacement had been sought.

Your post re. the NMSA wagon wasn't guaranteed - agree but it was either going to be me or him that was going to be lynched D1. Both Spangled and Egix scumread me D1. What if I ended up being the D1 lynch and not NMSA?

I still find the progression from 75 (Egix voting Spangled) to sheeping him in 236 odd. Maybe that vote on Spangled was a smokescreen to stop us from thinking that they are the team? I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into it.

VCA makes a lot of sense actually.

Wouldn't it be easier, if Egix is scum, for him to just vote Airan and just wait until the replacement makes a move to then make his movement of votes?

The play he made makes more sense if he's town and paranoid of a quickhammer, rather than (as scum) being sussed for putting a player on L1 or potentially leading to his partner's death.
I'll need to think about the vote/unvote more

If both Spangled and Egix were scum, wouldn't it make more sense in their progression to CFD onto you?

75 could be trying to force an interaction between the two, but that's a reach imo since it got no attention in thread, which would be odd for a forced interaction since those usually completely change thread direction.

I don't know what VCA means.

Unless I'm misreading your post, he did do that (bolded bit). Egix took a while to vote from Airan/eth0s (did so in 236) to unvoting him (371). Spangled was the first to unvote and at the point of Egix unvoting, NMSA was on L1. If they're partners, then forcing through this lynch would look less scummy. If it's Spangled/Egix then perhaps Spangled simply thought that eth0s was unlynchable and pushing on NMSA - a slot which was read as null/scum by most would be a better strategy as both of them could jump on that lynch without much suspicion.

It would make no sense to switch the lynch on me when NMSA was on L1, but if NMSA's slot started 'towntelling more' (I know I townread him, but I was the only one), then it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they both jumped on my wagon. If they are the scum, they could both jump on the same wagon without much suspicion. Perhaps Spangled knew that if both he and Egix were on the eth0s wagon and that slot got lynched by a randomhammer then they would be under more scrutiny?

[Spangled]

I'm so lost

This is my feeling too. I don’t want to reconsider you, but believe me when I say I’m super paranoid about you; it’s why I asked for a scum game of yours. I think if I ‘reconsider’ you, by which I mean literally consider you again, not necessarily change my read, just read your ISO properly by itself, I’ll find that you’re town, but it’s worth saying I’m not even going to bother to do that if Egix flips scum, and that I’m paranoid about you; I reckon you can probably play a good scumgame and I want to make sure this isn’t it.

[Jamelia]

Just got off work. I’ll read all of this more in depth but holy shit this is a nightmare. LOL

[Spangled]

I really don't like that so much of spangled's reasoning hinges on a POST 75 read list. That hardly means anything at this point except for potentially outing associations and that's part of what contributed to my bad hammer on nmsa

Yeah I know it’s a bit iffy — and I am worried I’m wrong, oh so very worried — but my biggest thought is: why did he feel the need to comment on every player? Post 75 he shouldn’t have that much to say about AI things, and he really didn’t. So why bother say most of it?

The biggest thing that’s holding me back from kinda locking this scum — although that’s not correct but any other way I try to type it makes less sense — is why he decided to go at anyone at all; wouldn’t the safer move as scum be to not attack anyone?
But then again it can be explained from a scum pov; if he has a super null readslist that’s scummy in and of itself.

[Geyde]

Rereading Spangled/Egix

They've interacted with each other in a way that would draw attention to the two (mainly during d1 with Egix wagoning Spangled, the talk regarding 66).
Additionally, Egix attached himself to the case Spangled made regarding Airan's slot with 213 and 286.

I'm going off of the assumption that Airan's wagon was expected to flip scum, but didn't due to Ethos's performance after replacing in.

If anything, I think only one of them could be scum because in the case of Airan flipping d1.
If Egix is scum with scum spangled, it would make much more sense for him in scumpov to wait until later to join the wagon on Airan instead of restricting their options.
If Egix is scum with a town Spangled, attaching himself to the lynch wagon would give him the ability to deflect onto Spangled's case if Airan's slot flipped v.

Objectively, Egix's play directly disadvantages him severely were they to be scum with spangled. It's not the type of small mistake that scum might make because of scum's tendency to avoid being directly associated with each other like the plague, nor do I think it is something Egix plans in the long game for.
Ergo, I don't think that they are scum with each other.

I don't think he acted the way he did if Airan was scum since his explanation would stick out as bussing to any level of rereading. The wagon flipping onto NMSA wasn't guaranteed, and his progression would look extremely shitty were he to switch off of a wagon that flipped scum in retrospect after fully buying the case.
He basically gets outed after Airan flips and vice versa

Three BWs day one:

Spangled: Egix96, Geyde
NMSA: Geyde, Dryanth, eth0s, UrVeggieM8, Egix96, eth0s
Airan: Spangled, faustiv, NMSA, Egix96

Spangled was not voting at the time of NMSA's lynch.

Re. your analysis. I can see where you are coming from, but Airan was not on L1 for very long (Egix put him there on post 236, I took him out of it in post 238). Airan was replaced in post 247. I don't see how scum have the foresight to see that the Airan lynch goes through when:

- The player was inactive and likely to be replaced, which is something you're discounting from your analysis

- Was not on L1 for very long

- Overall paranoia that comes with voting someone in L1

eth0s joined the game from post 310 onwards. He was on L2 at the time. If this slot was to be lynched, it wouldn't be because of Airan, it would have been because of Airan and whoever replaced him. Airan wasn't active at the time of his L1 (or L2), ergo town wouldn't have let the lynch go through until a replacement had been sought.

Your post re. the NMSA wagon wasn't guaranteed - agree but it was either going to be me or him that was going to be lynched D1. Both Spangled and Egix scumread me D1. What if I ended up being the D1 lynch and not NMSA?

I still find the progression from 75 (Egix voting Spangled) to sheeping him in 236 odd. Maybe that vote on Spangled was a smokescreen to stop us from thinking that they are the team? I don't know, maybe I'm looking too much into it.

VCA makes a lot of sense actually.

Wouldn't it be easier, if Egix is scum, for him to just vote Airan and just wait until the replacement makes a move to then make his movement of votes?

The play he made makes more sense if he's town and paranoid of a quickhammer, rather than (as scum) being sussed for putting a player on L1 or potentially leading to his partner's death.
I'll need to think about the vote/unvote more

If both Spangled and Egix were scum, wouldn't it make more sense in their progression to CFD onto you?

75 could be trying to force an interaction between the two, but that's a reach imo since it got no attention in thread, which would be odd for a forced interaction since those usually completely change thread direction.

I don't know what VCA means.

Unless I'm misreading your post, he did do that (bolded bit). Egix took a while to vote from Airan/eth0s (did so in 236) to unvoting him (371). Spangled was the first to unvote and at the point of Egix unvoting, NMSA was on L1. If they're partners, then forcing through this lynch would look less scummy. If it's Spangled/Egix then perhaps Spangled simply thought that eth0s was unlynchable and pushing on NMSA - a slot which was read as null/scum by most would be a better strategy as both of them could jump on that lynch without much suspicion.

It would make no sense to switch the lynch on me when NMSA was on L1, but if NMSA's slot started 'towntelling more' (I know I townread him, but I was the only one), then it wouldn't have surprised me at all if they both jumped on my wagon. If they are the scum, they could both jump on the same wagon without much suspicion. Perhaps Spangled knew that if both he and Egix were on the eth0s wagon and that slot got lynched by a randomhammer then they would be under more scrutiny?

I misread what posts you mentioned in terms of how quick the vote/unvote happened.
I'll take a deeper look at it

[eth0s]

I'm so lost

This is my feeling too. I don’t want to reconsider you, but believe me when I say I’m super paranoid about you; it’s why I asked for a scum game of yours. I think if I ‘reconsider’ you, by which I mean literally consider you again, not necessarily change my read, just read your ISO properly by itself, I’ll find that you’re town, but it’s worth saying I’m not even going to bother to do that if Egix flips scum, and that I’m paranoid about you; I reckon you can probably play a good scumgame and I want to make sure this isn’t it.

what im wondering is why your desire to re sort me hinges on a lynch that I wasn't even a part of until after the stated intention of re sorting me.

[eth0s]

This is my only scum game since I started playing again this year.

You can dig through my old games if you want but I was very bad. I think I have 3-4 scum games so far. My first ever game on site was scum and I got lynched like d1 or d2. Then I played a normal where I was scum and I think we won but I got carried if memory serves me correctly. I think theres another one I dont remember.

I won the one I linked though. Although the most impressive thing I did was fake claim a tracker in lylo and use it to mislynch a guy who wouldnt even defend himself. I think you will see that my general thought process here is a lot more crazy and organic.

But self meta is shit. And my meta actually shifts pretty frequently. Even in this game I'm sure you see differences to Crosswords and the last game you were in with draynth and I. I like to switch it up.

[Spangled]

I'm so lost

This is my feeling too. I don’t want to reconsider you, but believe me when I say I’m super paranoid about you; it’s why I asked for a scum game of yours. I think if I ‘reconsider’ you, by which I mean literally consider you again, not necessarily change my read, just read your ISO properly by itself, I’ll find that you’re town, but it’s worth saying I’m not even going to bother to do that if Egix flips scum, and that I’m paranoid about you; I reckon you can probably play a good scumgame and I want to make sure this isn’t it.

what im wondering is why your desire to re sort me hinges on a lynch that I wasn't even a part of until after the stated intention of re sorting me.

...huh
You weren’t. Wow. Honestly I thought you were on Egix’s wagon at the time. Practically the opposite was true.
Sorry for that. Gee.

[Egix96]

I really don't like that so much of spangled's reasoning hinges on a POST 75 read list. That hardly means anything at this point except for potentially outing associations and that's part of what contributed to my bad hammer on nmsa

Yeah I know it’s a bit iffy — and I am worried I’m wrong, oh so very worried — but my biggest thought is: why did he feel the need to comment on every player? Post 75 he shouldn’t have that much to say about AI things, and he really didn’t. So why bother say most of it?

The biggest thing that’s holding me back from kinda locking this scum — although that’s not correct but any other way I try to type it makes less sense — is why he decided to go at anyone at all; wouldn’t the safer move as scum be to not attack anyone?
But then again it can be explained from a scum pov; if he has a super null readslist that’s scummy in and of itself.

Because they were still thoughts that I had, and even if they weren't necessarily alignment-relevant I figured there was no harm in stating them.

@ Second paragraph: In all honesty I really don't think that's a valid argument. You've answered your own question anyway.