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[Hopkirk]

@Billy: how are you reading Aaron now?

[Hopkirk]

So at this point we've had what 6 pr claims and 4 implicit claims? Am I missing any direct ones?

[Hopkirk]

Billy's town. His scumgame was reserved/cautious/as far as I can tell he subbed out due to pressure from it. He has a lot of natural feeling posts this game.

Oh man, hectic and hopkirk are both going to make this game fun to read and infuriating to play. I don't have a clue how to read them, but it's enjoyable at least. Can't tell if carcalilly was joking, because that was a bit LAMIST. Carca were you joking?

VOTE: Carcalilly

Hectic's survivor crumb had me dying.

bad post

vote: billy pilgrim

JEEP's guide to catching mafia told me that naked votes with little explanation like this are usually bad.
Do you dislike his post because he's LAMISTing it up and not scumhunting?

i don't know what LAMIST means, tbh.

i didn't like the post because it was a long way of saying "i have no reads" while trying to appear to be substantive. and the questioning of carca + the immediate vote makes me feel like he genuinely wasn't interested in learning carca's perspective, and did it as filler.

is hectic an alt

no

he's town then (or rather, not lying about being survivor)

How does this knowledge affect your Hectic read?
I liked your entrance.

because his tone is extremely earnest and passionate about the game. but if it was an old user doing a "haha i'm so new" gimmick then it wouldn't be as genuine

What if he was an experienced mafia player, not necessarily with the experience being from mafiascum, with a 'sordid' history of memeing, and who had a humorous discussion with me last week about the flailing statistics.

he's probably still town in that case. i'm sure some of the stuff he's saying is a meme, though.

Ok makes sense. It's early, so this was basically my way of directing a question to Carcalilly while we are still in LIVS. LAMIST means look at me I'm so town. Her comment about worrying about Hectic pointing out breadcrumbs in response to what I thought was a pretty obvious joke came across to me as her trying to score easy townpoints. That's why I asked if it was a joke. And I didn't read it as a joke initially, which is why I directed the vote there.

And as for my comments that I can't read Hectic and Hopkirk, I mean that. The jokey posts come across as though they're not game solving, but they're legit nai, so sorting them is tough. Yet for some reason I decided to torture myself by replacing into this game.

Tone is super sincere here, and in general in discussion to memeing and Hectic.

@Gamma - I agree that I'm probably having trouble working my way into this game. It's ALOT larger than I'm used to, and it's insanely active. I think games been up for 36 hours and we're on page 22 already. So I'll be along.

Pedit: I'm not playing devil's advocate. My pm jumped out at me this time, because I'm used to them being green or red. Not sure why that wasn't noticeable for others, but it seems like everyone's letting this slide, and your play felt like you were sorting. That felt like the first scummy thing I could see, so now I'm left with nothing.

UNVOTE: Carcalilly

Wait why didn't you vote me here. Carcalilly using 'green pm' to mean town makes sense, but I clearly didn't realize there wasn't colour in the pm- as you mentioned earlier.

-Hop

Couldn't tell whether yours was a test or whether it was a slip. Given that there had already been discussion I thought you may have been fishing for reasoning which I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post. I thought hers was the bigger outlier since she used it. You defending was suspect, but I figured it may have been you trying to draw out my reasoning.

This is the kind of thing newbscum latches onto and spends half the day tunneling. Billy seems to consider whether it's actually likely (see follow on in his iso). Reads aren't influenced which seems like a townie play, avoiding focusing on something he could call a policy lynch for a few days.

Judges recent posts are making me like that slot more. I think I've already said I like tchill's slot. I'm not sure why YAzg keeps voting my townreads, but it's definitely making me more skeptical of her slot.

My gut is telling me that this is simply you trying to back track on a push. While also using it to stear towards another. Makes me your scum thinking after Judges claims it would be to risky to push there. With you instead hoping to stear instead to another player that has been pushing him. All the while making a point of no longer scum reading him. So what made you like his slot more, that would of been the case before?

I just dont get why the first part was even posted. And on the later half care to tell us why YAzg pushes on those players you townread makes you as you put it skeptical of her slot. So why a scum leaning over a leaning toward town making misguided pushes. And what in the posts makes you feel its not genuine scum hunting


Your the other player that has pinged me so far. There is just this uneasy feeling im getting on your slot.

Did I really push Judge? I said there wasnt what I would consider game solvey content there, then it changed. If you don't see a difference in Judge's content then I guess this makes sense, but it started to look alot more like sorting and much less memey. And I posted that part because I had answered a question from Carcalilly about his slot earlier.

I liked the way she came in the game, and immediately started sorting. I probably read too much into the comment about the green pm. But if someone is scumreading your townreads, that is tough to square. I didn't say I'm scumreading her, I said it's making me more skeptical of the slot, which means I need to re-read it with a fresh eye.

Tone is super sincere. Easy to follow thought process.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't see this admission coming from scum. More likely to get defensive. His slot hasn't really been that bad so it sounds more like town guilt than anything.

@AaronFrost I agree that taking care of college stuff first is the right priority. Replacing in is good for the site, but it's better when you do it only when you're ready to play.

What was this in response to?

Nevermind, found it. Damn this game is unwieldy.

What he subbed out for as scum last time.

Ok, I'll be the IC or I'll get a guilty on a claimed vanilla cop. Check me I'm a VT.

No one else claim VT. Jailer can be on me to keep me alive. I'm not going anywhere. Although if there's a possibility that scum have a watcher maybe don't be on me.

Still don't think scum want to claim this. Not unless they've got a backup watcher (like town watcher/scum backup, scum tracker/town backup seems plausible). Even then it's clearly easier to just target Carcalilly.

[Hopkirk]

When you actually read the iso, Eevee is super obvscum.

[Hopkirk]

Super may be an overstatement, and we all know Dave has a problem with that kind of language.

I'd prefer a wagon to be on someone who can defend themselves. Even if he gets subbed, the sub wont know his reasoning, or why hes gone.

My defense of him is purely for altruistic reasons. Id hate to be a sub, subbed into a slot thats almost dead. Wouldn't you?

You missed my point. The sub wouldnt be able to answer those questions. They would only be able to read from a post-post perspective. So asking them anything about roster wouldnt get you anywhere

Didn't like these interactions we were having at the time. Eevee was very inconsistent logic wise in relation to the Roosterwagon. This line from Eevee specifically 'His reasoning for not being here his reasoning for having done nothing.' which does not gel at all with

someone getting force replaced for inactivity

. Disliked Eevee at the time for that since they seemed to be changing their position on the whole thing two or three times during the conversation, but fell off my radar.

besides that I have a little list, in order. town top.

gamma
hectic/

Dave

garmr
yag/profi
Bob/billy
Jjd
Dalton/Kop
Eevee/Eleme
Cliff

hopkirk

/tchill

I'm aware I haven't explained the lowest end much yet. I'll do that someday.

Fixed this for you.

That being said I don't understand why gamma is a top town read.

Could you explain your dave townread?

This is oddly out of place with Eevee's general impulsive posting style, not really asking any questions. I think it's the only request to explain a townread. Sort of implies Eevee agrees with the other townreads which we don't get a particular sense of anywhere.

im not really sure what to think of the watcher claim. its a weird fakeclaim for scum since watcher always felt better for a scum than a town. and cop/tracker would be better roles to claim here right? its easier to excuse not dying since a doctor can save them easier while i dont think a host would let a watcher doctor combo happen without super strong scum prs. all together i think we should let him be today. but if theres a vig feel free to shoot him.

Fence sitty. The last bit about a vig shot is particularly bad from someone who's 'not sure' about the claim.

Elementis if you are town always check the wiki. Thats teh first thing i would expect any player to do. Just looks liek your trying row back

im more disappointed he didnt ask the host

Don't see this comment really coming from someone who 'doesn't buy the claim' like Eevee allegedly doesn't at this point.

is me guessing and you saying yes or no allowed?

Other similar interactions with Elements around the claim like this don't fit the tone of Eevee's scumread of the claim. Eevee is going too hard on 'lay in out specifically' while not really delving into the more obvious 'how is it possible you can't claim' for someone who allegedly doesn't believe the claim.

I am not a fan of Bob. He initially voted for Elements for reasons 'setup spec'ing very early' etc

He then left the wagon, but came back when the lynch actually went through and when he put his vote on he said he didn't believe the macho/one shot claim.

My concern is that if I am casing a slot for being scummy I'd be like "woah guys I'm voting elements because he was setup speccing over in this post, plus now look at this macho claim it's gotta be BS" - i.e. case the whole ISO for a scum evidence - Bob didnt mention his initial setup spec concern when he votes due to his claim concern, which makes me believe he is looking for a reason to be on the wagon rather than actual scum hunting properly.

VOTE: Bob3141

Obviously I will hear him out but I'm just going to vote there for now.

I've looked at Tchill's ISO and someone is going to have to take me through the case here, he doesn't come across super town of the players I've looked at so far but I dont think he is the most scummy either at this point unless I've missed something of course.

That seems pretty reachy to me. Are you going to pick out everyone that voted for elements early in day one. By the time elementis made his watcher claim i was already sorting him as town. With me even calling out those who continued to push him.

Wasn't with till after his one shot macho watcher claim plus himself voting that made me reluctantly vote for him.

Straight watcher i believed. Macho watcher could be possible role but no townie should have mentioned the macho bit. Added to all that self voting. It just looked bad for town

Oneshot talk tipped me over the edge when it came to voting for him. I cant see why he mentioned that as he flipped just a macho watcher. I wonder if he was responding to once

per a night

---

I find it odd you overlook my scum hunting aswell. Did you not think kop has been scummy this game. Has he not done anything in your opinion to justify my vote on him before the wtacher saga. For you to think that doesnt even count as scum hunting.

He has yet to answer any of my points i think

I honestly think he shouldn't have said macho. He was in a really bad position as either faction. I probably shouldnt have voted him myself but i really wanted a lynch to go through and he became too much of a liability unfortunately.

Overjustifying the next day.

What do you think of Billy's VT claim?

I can see it as an opportunistic claim from mafia but it would put them in an extremely bad situation unless scum has a way to stop nea. If he is vt idt we should lynch him but its a tough call

Not taking a stance (resembling the rest of this iso). Tone reads poorly here.

Can you postpone the hammer until we get answers for the above questions

This is the first post I read since I was going backwards initially and why I said superobvscum. This is so Lamist. Eevee hasn't had a stated problem with Tchill before this. Eevee isn't concerned at all about the hammer, they're just saying 'let's wait a bit first'. Looks like they're actively avoiding the wagon. They hadn't voted ALL day to this point but are implicitly in favor of/happy with Tchill being lynched here.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

@LUV: can i prod Hectic in a way he's more likely to see?

[Hopkirk]

Not entirely sure why I disliked Tchill initially on a reread there. @Tchill: what's got you struggling to get into the game?

-Kork

[Hopkirk]

oh yeah, also the Tchill wagon collapsed without any votes going to the almost equally sized Eevee counterwagon. That feels odd when Alonzo then got wagoned for things Eevee was doing as much/more of.

[Hopkirk]

Ok I'll go through Kop like you asked yesterday Dave. Watch him handwave it with 'It was a month ago' then do a low effort catch up that results in nobody caring about his d1 play.

If cop did check the miller claim and actually gets a guilty, we're no further forward to the truth, because that claimed miller still could be scum. It would create a lot more WIFOM than anything else because we're left with a debate on either believing the claim or lynching said claim.

I also don't get why we are discussing what possible roles are out there. Rolefishing is scummy.

The last sentence is written unnaturally.

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

im not liking the fact your speculating on the set up this early.

Is it early to start speculating? I just quite like doing it.

Im hoping for a third game were my initial impressions turn out to be right

Sorry to disappoint

I find rolefishing to what roles could be out there scummy, especially on day one. Because it just feels like it could be scum looking for reactions and get a feel of where the possible PR's are.

Setup speculating should be done at least day two once we have a night out of the way to see what we are up against.

Kop focuses a lot on this minor setup/night stuff 800 posts in without really giving reads. Read like he's looking for something to focus in on.

VOTE: Roster

Naked vote quoted for comments below.

I'm guessing that there's only so much we can talk about day 1, even though for a large game 32 pages isn't much.

I expected us to lynch someone soon but either scums playing real good or the lynchbait is laying low.

Wanna predict the nightkill? Do you think scum will be cautious of jjd's whatever-the-fuck-cop-claim? Or will they realize it's a joke? Or is it?

What are we going to achieve by trying to predict the nightkill? You do realise that there is most likely going to be more than one kill.

1. Who are you, where did you come from, why is this one of the first times I'm aware of your presence?

2. If town can work together-subtly-with the prs to prevent or predict a NK it will be favorable. Town can WIFOM scum with protective roles. Giving them a hard time is worth a minimal effort. Predicting can urge scum to rethink their decisions and possibly make ones less favorable to them. It prepares us for day two. Nobody was saying anything on the thread and I wanted something-anything-to talk about.

3. How the fuck is everyone so sure about a third faction or alternative killing role?

I don't know why this is the first time that your aware of my presence, maybe I never got involved with the whole RVS stage properly, or properly announce myself.

I have never played a game where we have tried to predict the nightkill so apologies on not seeing what kind of benefits it has. If I had actually participated in a game where I've seen it done and seen the affects it has, then I could have possibly had a different view on it, but since I've never been in a game where it has been done, I had a hard time seeing the negatives and positives it has.

And as for your third point, I thought I had seen someone quote a phrase that mentioned serial killer and I thought it was from the Mod. Reading back at the mods posts in this game, there was no mention of it so my bad for misreading into it, I don't know who quoted it so I can't check back on that either. However a game of this size, I'm going to presume that there will be a alternative killing role, possibly a vigilante, or another scum faction, or possibly a lone serial killer. Otherwise it's going to be quite a big mafia team if we're going to guess the ratio is 1 mafia to 4 town.

Again, oddly focused on speculation.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

Hectic, we're trying to move onto a Cliff wagon given so many people don't want to vote roster

I see, I'll take your word for it O Great IC.

VOTE: Cliff

Don't like this vote either. No substance, but if it happened to be a lynch at some point, any questions aimed at this vote, wouldn't be justified because he can easily hide behind it was a pressure vote and I was told that this was the thing so I joined.

Guys, that’s my stunt double. I need him, or else I’d have to do my own stunts. I’m an alcoholic, how am I supposed to that drunk?

Sorry, but I think it's time to drop the gimmick and play Mafia. Prove to me that he has done some kind of scum hunting and I will let him be. I feel like his posts are mostly hollow though, so I don't see why you can't drop him and hire a double stunt that actually can do the work for you,

Can't disagree with any of this.

From above- two posts chainsaw defending Cliff without a clear townread on the slot.
The comment directly above has an odd abscence of mentioning Cliff's gimmick when Kop has a problem with Rick's gimmick - makes it look like his lack of Cliff interaction isn't just an accident. Scum equity or trying to pocket, either way not a fan.

I liked Hopkirk today. He's right that my slot's been terrible. I didn't really have much to go on today. Carca's probably right that I'm asking weird questions, I am sort of lost in this game. The only wagon that existed was roster, and I wasn't that into that one, but this one feels better, not a huge fan of Cliff's slot, and I'm liking the people on this wagon so far.

VOTE: Cliff

I don't like this vote, and also the explanation isn't up to the vote either. I just feel that it is a clean sheep vote because he likes the people that are on the wagon, I understand following your town reads, but there could be a possibility that there could be scum on the wagon that he is town reading. Or the other possibility is that Billy is scum and can have that confidence in the people on the wagon are town because he would know for sure they are town. He didn't like the Rooster wagon, but he would know that it would look bad for sheeping onto that wagon because of the manner and way the votes went.

He also states that he is not a fan of the Cliff slot, but hasn't really divulged into why he doesn't like that slot, or also interact with Cliff to debate with him to why he doesn't specifically like that slot.

VOTE: Billy

So if you dont think it was a townie thing to sheep teh rooster wagon. Why did you also sheep it?

Based on someones comment that Rooster done naked votes in a previous game and he was scum. I believed it warranted some pressure. I was also never going to be on that wagon right till the end of the day.

Yeah, really don't like this one. The Rooster vote looked like everyone else's on a low activity slot let's build a wagon. Now Kop is trying overly hard to assign reasons and I don't buy he just saw that comment and thought 'I'll pressure that'

without evenen reading enough to see that Rooster was going to be replaced from inactivity

. Feels manufactured after the fact.

VOTE: Aaron

I can't disagree with any of the votes on him, I don't think it's a good idea voting a non counter claimed PR claim. Yes he may be fake claiming, but I believe in giving him a chance to try prove his claim, rather than lynching him without that chance.

lamist again but who cares, that's probably not an actual scumtell

I want elements or Cliff atm.

A last second flash is near certain to hit town. Scum will lurk it out.

Can you put your case out to why you would vote for both of them?

Is your elements vote based on what is usually used by scum, but IMO that's not exactly a concrete reason because 'usually' isn't exactly a motivation to scum read someone. But you've never built on that or necessarily interacted with him, and seem to be going on what everyone else has been given him and making your own mind up.

I do get what your saying about a last second flash wagon is likely to hit town or possibly out another PR. I would rather not go for the watcher, and if Cliff is anything other than a PR, I'd likely like to go for the VT.

Still odd that he hasn't given any sort of read on Cliff or interacted with Cliff (or even tried to interact) when he immediately seems to discount the Cliff wagon as a possibility here. Goes for different ones.

Man I've got a lot to catch up on, I've just got back off holiday. This is going to take some time.

VOTE: tchill

Im not fully caught up, but why are you Voting for a claimed tracker? We fucked up and ended up lynching a claimed watcher which proved true.

Why are you voting for people who either vote for you or shout for your lynch?

This is all we've had d2. Honestly I feel like anyone who doesn't post for two weeks should just be force replaced.

-Hop

[Hopkirk]

Titus is a hard null with minor scum equity from voting patterns. I want other people's thoughts on the slot, how Titus usually acts, and I want to actually hear stuff from Titus.

[EeveeLution Army]

tchill is on my never lynch list hopkirk. along with gamma carcalilly. ive been looking for a third to add. someone suggested profii which i dont mind.

[Hopkirk]

Solid town from what I've reread today: Aaron Frost/Hectic/Carcalilly/Texcat/Garmr/Billy/Tchill
More may join, but I haven't got the full reread done yet.
Alonzo feels town purely from the pushes surrounding them, not from content.
Titus is null.

VOTE: Eevee
Eevee is scum. Kop is likely scum.

Still to reread:
Cliff Booth
Rick Dalton
Judge Joseph Dredd
Titus
roosterfoster/gobbledygook
davesaz
profii
bob3141

-Hop

[EeveeLution Army]

tbh i thought you and KOP were the same person for a while LMAO

[Hopkirk]

tchill is on my never lynch list hopkirk. along with gamma carcalilly. ive been looking for a third to add. someone suggested profii which i dont mind.

You don't say you scumread him directly. What you said, and what I quoted, is this:

Can you postpone the hammer until we get answers for the above questions

The reader of this can easily infer that you don't have a problem with someone hammering Tchill since you ask for the hammer to be

postponed

instead of saying you don't want the hammer or asking any questions about it. It's implicit from your actions that you wouldn't have a problem with the hammer, but you don't directly say you want it either.

[Hopkirk]

@Dave: how come you haven't wanted an explained readslist from Eevee, or Kop, or Titus, or Gobble, or Tchill who never explained his scumread on me beyond a sentence, or Rick who just says stuff (which I think is his meta though), or literally anyone else?

[EeveeLution Army]

well. someone had given context that they were planning on hammering. if i had said nothing its entirely possible he would have gotten hammered anyway.

[EeveeLution Army]

using neutral tones allows you to reach more people.

[Hopkirk]

Looking back Dave lurked as scum when I played with scum-Dave too. I remember someone else mentioning that Dave lurked as scum when they played.
Are the townreads there basically meta like a Creature read?

[EeveeLution Army]

i never mind dying. since im normally unnecessary. and i doubt its lylo. but titus dave and MAYBE dredd as mafia. carcalilly tchill profii probably town.


though who was the doctor claim again? i keep losing track of that.

[Hopkirk]

@JJD: what's your RickFD read?

[Hopkirk]

i don't remember a doctor claim that looked serious. Maybe I forgot since doctor shuldn't claim here

[EeveeLution Army]

he reasserted the claim recently psure

[Hopkirk]

how do you know it's a he. It is but how do you know

[EeveeLution Army]

i just went to the generic term. if u know who did could u tell me maybe?

[Hopkirk]

I don't think there's anything I dislike about Gobble.

-Hop