newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[eth0s]

Btw he has already shown signs of trying to slide away from his supposed top scumread to omg us me because he knows he's scum and will be caught if I live.

You

were

my top scumread, and you knew I was going to go after you.

You've already given context to the contrary, you should've taken this stance first. Now it looks really bad.

[RadiantCowbells]

You've already given context to the contrary, you should've taken this stance first. Now it looks really bad.

I've only minimally attempted to hide my true reads given that I expressed both of my hard townreads early.
You cannot assert otherwise and such an assert would be meaningless as evidence because whether or not you were my true primary scumread, you can still be scum
You're just trying to look for stuff to attack me for.

[RadiantCowbells]

You've already given context to the contrary, you should've taken this stance first. Now it looks really bad.

I've only minimally attempted to hide my true reads given that I expressed both of my hard townreads early.
You cannot assert otherwise and such an assert would be meaningless as evidence because whether or not you were my true primary scumread, you can still be scum
You're just trying to look for stuff to attack me for.

[RadiantCowbells]

By the way, town don't need to express over a dozen posts the fact that they don't know whether the scumflip is going to be a mafia roleblocker or not and its meaning for Draynth's align.
They can simply in one post state "If this is not mafia roleblocker, Draynth is not cleared." Maybe another couple posts to talk about their reads in both gamestates.
Needing to talk about it over a dozen posts is scum making a show of the fact that they 'do not actually know what kind of scum this is going to flip'.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Egix96 where's your head at in regards to the thread?
I don't see real solving from your posts

In my opinion, the game hasn't really yet progressed far enough for me to form any solid reads yet, but based on some ISO-reading:

Airan - They remind me a bit of how I was in my first-ever game (Newbie 1890), in that they seem... well, actually I'm not sure how to put it in words. Maybe it's because, like me, they started their first game with a scum rand, but I don't really feel strongly about that. I'm aware that Jamelia "love[d] that [they were] being 'paranoid'" but to me, 39 is a good example of what I'm talking about here.

Draynth - Not really seeing much in the way of alignment-indicative stuff from him yet. Most of his play so far has simply involved asking questions (also his 'quick tip' in 17) so I would consider him the de facto IC of this game (the Newbie game kind, when those were still a thing).

faustiv - I would like to see more from them first.

Geyde - I think that 62 is a +town observation, though it remains to be seen whether I will end up agreeing with it or not.

Jamelia - Probably not scum with Airan based on first sentence of 47. I can imagine the rest of that post being said from one scum to another, but not the first bit, I think that would just be way too corny
Individually though, not yet sure what to make of him.

NMSA - 56 feels a little bit reachy imo, but I guess that that can be at least partially justified by it being that early in the game. Nothing else from him pings me though.

Spangled - 61 - "...but

I don’t think I can call [Jamelia] scum over it.

I am not willing to put my vote there just yet, but

I will consider it.

" Seems non-committal and maybe self-contradictory?

Veggie - I notice that, like Jamelia, they also end a lot of their sentences with exclamation marks - how has Spam not picked up on that? But I digress.
66 I will admit is not a bad post, but I wouldn't say that it's "the best question asked so far" as Spangled put it... and Airan agreeing with that is... eh? But again I digress.

So with all that said,

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Spangled

Why does the name Airan come up in everyone elses readslist in the context of "this player is not Airans scumbuddy" this early in the game?
Answer: because Egix is thinking in terms of who would be Airan's scumbuddy if they flipped... because they know Airan is the actual scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you've been asked for this before Egix, and you still haven't done so yet. Where do you think people lean at this point?

Right now I'm thinking something like

Town:
Spangled
Geyde

?? (Need to look at when I get the chance)
Jam
Draynth
eth0s

Scum:
faust

Puts Eth0s at the bottom of his null reads pile despite the fact that Eth0s is generally townread.
If Egix is scum and Eth0s is essentially an unlynchable slot at this point in the game, why does he keep taking potshots and putting him in his nullreads?
It would be weird play given that there's so many other lynchable slots and Eth0s is playing pro-scum, but it's extremely typical scumbuddy-scumbuddy play.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

Daaamn. eth0s, if you went to all that effort after replacing into a scum slot, then knock me down.

Intent to hammer

Let's get one thing straight. This isn't about effort. In this scenario, for any sensible person replacing into the slot that I did, effort isn't a choice and it is not AI.

If I'm scum then everything I've done so far is based around a primary goal of winning the game and a secondary goal of manipulating the game and bringing as much chaos as I can into the game given fake reads and stances that are meant to confuse the town post-flip.

If I'm town then the primary goal is the same, but the secondary concerns getting as much of my perspective out there as I can in case I die.

I can tell you one thing for certain: I'm going to try my ass off in either scenario.

It's the content of and perceived motivation behind the effort that should make you want to vote/unvote me.
So if you're simply removing your vote due to my effort you might as well throw it right back on there.

This is also kinda transparently SvS. But anyway I just wanted to bring up the evidence from Egix's iso, the big thing is still to come because it's based on past meta involving the approach that scum would have taken to the game with Egix on the team and the real meaning behind the mason claim in twilight.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's really no reason for that many words here and Egix's post does spew Eth0s scum pretty hard. This post is also tonally incongruent with the rest of Eth0s's posting this game; it's very formal and mechanical as opposed to Eth0s's more generally all over the place and emotional self. You catch SvS associations by looking for who scum treat differently and who treats flipped scum differently and that fits to a T here.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, does Eth0s's urgency to have me killed make sense as town? There's no evidence in his ISO that I was a primary scumread (in fact he called me his second highest townread once and FoSed Jamelia right before EoD, based on interactions that look worse with Egix as flipped scum no less). But alternatively if he's scum, knows that I'm an incredibly threatening townie, and is scared that I'll shatter his house of cards, yeah, he wants to go after me from the jump and try to get me killed before I can convince other people in the lobby that he's scum.

It is always easier to mislynch me than it is to fool me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Anyway. My case is actually really nifty and I want to be able to do it justice because I think it's a huge learning opportunity for the newer town players if I explain it properly.
I want to be able to present the reason that fully convinced me that he's scum because it explains a fuckton of the 'weird' stuff that he's done this game, like not going after Faust when he should have day one and what was that about that weird ass mason claim in twilight.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, I allowed for the possibility that Town!Eth0s would have gone against me in this way just out of paranoia of me but otoh I don't think Eth0s really has a reason to be that paranoid.
And, as I already cited:

Then you must also disagree with my thinking that at that point in the game only an egix lynch seemed possible? If you agree with that line of thinking then you should see that an earlyish bus would absolutely make sense to buy extra towncred if he is expecting his partner to be the only possible lynch option.

Well I always said that my main scumlead was Faustiv. So, I do disagree that Egix is the only lynch that makes sense. Because it doesn't make sense to me as much as a faustiv OR a vote on you.

then why did you state intent to hammer on egix in 716...

ugh

FoS: Jamelia

geyde I am inclined to trust you second most right now. can you get some wagon/votecount analysis going to help me out here?

I would like to say that Eth0s respects me enough as a town player to be interested in my input here, and there isn't a progression to the scumread.
Conversely, I would like to say that Eth0s respects me enough as scum to try to go after me as opposed to trying to dodge a scumread by me.

It's tremendously anti-town to go after a replacement in this manner. I don't think this is an actual thing that would happen from town them.
Atp, I'd be fine to be lynched tomorrow if I'm wrong because I think that if Eth0s is town that this play really needs to be punished.

[RadiantCowbells]

Btw he has already shown signs of trying to slide away from his supposed top scumread to omg us me because he knows he's scum and will be caught if I live.

Eth0s has never been a party to town winning against me. Eth0s has been party to towns losing versus me. Eth0s has no reason to believe I am even slightly scared of him as scum.
If they're saying this, they're saying this not because it's true but because they think it's a useful way to frame the discussion for the other players in the game.

What you have to think about is, why exactly are they trying to frame my push on them as scum motivated in a dishonest way if they're town?
Furthermore, I am extremely well known for omgusing people as town. Eth0s knows me enough to know this. Why suggest that it's scummy to omgus them, knowing that?

Everything that Eth0s has posted since I replaced in has been clearly dishonest and I think that they just panicked because of my replace in and went all in.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also and this is in preparation for my big case which is still a lot of effort and I'm lazy, but if Eth0s thinks this highly of themself, why would they be trying to bait a nightkill d1

[RadiantCowbells]

I just ate a salad. It was good. I'll make my case now!

[RadiantCowbells]

So, let's step back for a moment from the mundanities of mafia and talk about what scum are actually trying to do.
Egix has been party to two of my scum games and I know for a fact that he read the scum topics and took them to heart.

this game

Is the most important one. Essentially, I spell out that as soon as you roll scum with a roleblocker two things are true.
1) The non-roleblocker exists to protect the roleblocker. If the roleblocker goes down, you're fucked. Conversely, the roleblocker has no problems winning the game solo.
2) It's not just about getting any old mislynches. Your goal in the early game is to out the scum POWER ROLE without the roleblocker being outed.

Why does this matter so much? Let's look at a few things in the game.
1) Egix was perpetually shading Airan203. He voted them with serious intent to lynch. This is exactly the approach Egix would have taken towards his scumbuddy as the roleblocker.
2) Now, the mason claim was argued as a "I want to be nightkilled." But does that make sense? Has Eth0s played this game like the kind of player who would be okay with getting themselves nightkilled as town so someone else can survive and solve the game? I don't think they have at all. But now we can look at this from another point of view: they were deliberately baiting the PRs to target them so that the cop (who would know they can't be masons) didn't target the roleblocker, which is a very correct play as scum and something that I have even successfully employed as scum, baiting BOTH investigative roles in an extremely townsided setup to target me and thus giving them no innos and a single result that puts them no closer to catching my scumbuddy. You get the cop outed with one guilty, they can be roleblocked the rest of the game. Egix has seen this in action. Remember,

NMSA had not claimed Cop at this point

.
3) Despite constantly calling Faustiv scum, they kept looking for other people to go after. Why? It's simple: Faustiv was transparently not a power role. They were as a scumteam trying to get as many claims as possible and there's no use going after a slot that was going to flip town. That's ignoring the scumminess of not going after your primary scumread, it makes complete sense as scum.

Now, this all stops applying when the cop is dead so then you have D2.
Eth0s shaded Egix but when it came to brass tacks he jumped off the wagon and started a counterwagon on Faustiv.
And he did stay there for a while, but when it became abundantly obvious that Egix was going to be the lynch and counterwagons weren't going to happen, well, he jumps back.
He even made that weird FOS post towards Jamelia where he couldn't call her scum yet because Egix didn't flip and he was effectively calling out an unflipped association.

[RadiantCowbells]

I do have one

big

reluctance to go after Eth0s, and that's that this play is tonally completely different than his sole past scum game.
Technically, it's tonally different from pretty much any of his past games so it's not a reason to townread him per se it's just ???
That fact is the reason despite being my top scumread I've been sifting through other people as well and trying to deal with everything else but like

I really can't see this whole shebang today coming from town him. It makes complete sense coming from scum.
I was hoping to interact with his slot moreso than any other player in the game because I thought I'd get the most out of it but he completely shut that down and I think that's a scum ploy.

I'm fine losing if that wasn't a scum ploy.

[eth0s]

You cannot assert otherwise and such an assert would be meaningless as evidence because whether or not you were my true primary scumread, you can still be scum
You're just trying to look for stuff to attack me for.

Btw he has already shown signs of trying to slide away from his supposed top scumread to omg us me because he knows he's scum and will be caught if I live.

You

were

my top scumread, and you knew I was going to go after you.

huh

[RadiantCowbells]

huh.

[RadiantCowbells]

huh.

[eth0s]

By the way, town don't need to express over a dozen posts the fact that they don't know whether the scumflip is going to be a mafia roleblocker or not and its meaning for Draynth's align.
They can simply in one post state "If this is not mafia roleblocker, Draynth is not cleared." Maybe another couple posts to talk about their reads in both gamestates.
Needing to talk about it over a dozen posts is scum making a show of the fact that they 'do not actually know what kind of scum this is going to flip'.

um. No. Being worried that my thoughts would be lost in the abyss if I were to get nightkilled is a totally valid reason to bring it up multiple times. Especially in newbie games when people aren't always going to be aware of how scum can manipulate info. I can link you multiple of my town games here in newbie queue where I do the exact same thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

um. No. Being worried that my thoughts would be lost in the abyss if I were to get nightkilled is a totally valid reason to bring it up multiple times. Especially in newbie games when people aren't always going to be aware of how scum can manipulate info. I can link you multiple of my town games here in newbie queue where I do the exact same thing.

What you repeat is not that you think that Draynth might be scum still, what you repeat is a bunch of expressions of your uncertainty on the matter.
You repeatedly talk about the mechanics of the uncertain situation as opposed to just saying "HEY I THINK DRAYNTH IS LIKELY SCUM IF THIS IS GOON".

I've done it myself as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also funny that you talk about thoughts being lost to the void yet you know that I'm a highly competent townie and tried to silence me before I had the chance to post.

[eth0s]

RC is too good at gamesolves to be this wrong and tunnel me this hard as town. I'm honestly willing to go first if it comes to it and means that he will be lynched after me. This is actual blatant scum from RC and I didn't expect it to be this easy

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is too good at gamesolves to be this wrong and tunnel me this hard as town. I'm honestly willing to go first if it comes to it and means that he will be lynched after me. This is actual blatant scum from RC and I didn't expect it to be this easy

Too good at gamesolves to be wrong and tunnel you this hard as town and yet you didn't even wait for my scumread, you just went after me and tried to shut me up.

[eth0s]

Also funny that you talk about thoughts being lost to the void yet you know that I'm a highly competent townie and tried to silence me before I had the chance to post.

how in the fuck did I try to silence you? if anything voting you and calling you scum should be encouraging you to post more. You actually aren't making sense