Newbie 1959 | Stuff I Found Online Xv | Over

[AaronFrost]

Think scum may have accidentally done us a favor though since I was going to push him today.

[AaronFrost]

Hey look I got us off page 15 finally

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.02

Baby cuban crocodiles make laser gun noises as an affiliative social call.

One of those animal sounds that preschool education doesn't teach us I guess. pew pew pew

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Saladman27

(2): AaronFrost, Gimm1ck

Gimm1ck

(1): Saladman27

Not Voting

(4): Chibiie, Spartan117, teacher, Yodavader

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-17 19:00:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[AaronFrost]

I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.

I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.

[Saladman27]

What changed your read on Salad between days?

@Chii, I’m wondering what made my posts chill!town to chill!scum.

[Spartan117]

Just got in from a long day, going to sleep now will go through all d2 posts tomorrow and evaluate my standings on everyone then

[Yodavader]

I think the George NK was more of a throw off kill. I mean they're always going to looking for PR but I didn't see anything in his posts that would indicate PR. Again, I would have thought that they would go after the more influential townies, like teacher, which again, makes me think why would they not go after him?

I do agree with Aaron about them doing us a favor with George. I was still reading him as scum though I still rated him higher than Salad. My intent is still on Salad though.

[Yodavader]

Also, here is my current list:

Town:
Yoda (obv)
Chibiie
Aaron
Spartan

Null:
teacher - was super town to me until N1, but if I had to choose, I would still say town-ish
G1mmick - need to actually take a closer look

Scum:
Salad - already stated reasons and nothing has changed my mind about this yet

[Saladman27]

@Yoda, who do you think is “my partner”?

[Yodavader]

@Yoda, who do you think is “my partner”?

I'm still working on that. I have this gut feeling that it's someone on my town list that's really good at hiding. I just don't know which one. And no, it's not me....

[Chibiie]

What changed your read on Salad between days?

So, I'm not sure how to answer this question since I've pretty much explained everything so far, but I'll reinforce my reasoning then... At the end of the post so I answer both you and Salad at the same time.
In the meantime I'll address the followings:

I think the likely explanation for GeorgeBailey's death was that scum thought he was a PR.

If that's the case, I truly believe that none of the SE or experienced with Mafia overall is actually scum. In an earlier post you said that all I did feels like newb!town to you, I would like you to define "newb". Is it platform-wise or general Mafia game-wise?

I'm actually curious because you're also the one who said that this NK was something an SE would do to throw Town off, yet now you say that it is likely that George was read as PR.

Any experienced Mafia player should be able to see that (and this is my point of view only, as always) George had no PR-hints in his posts, besides the possible Masons (Dong / George), otherwise, I, personally couldn't see any other PR-hints.

I call this a contradiction, which makes me wanna lower you down on my TL, there are so many games where obvtown is actually scum and plays a perfect Town.

It is still possible, I'll still count it.
Is this

probability

or

possibility

?

I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.

I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.

I would like more info on this. You've already posted your list and then came up with a contradiction, I mean, at the end of my post I've posted what everyone can read in the Mod posts, so don't take my request as FoS. I'm genuinely curious of how you associate me to Salad. What puts me in this light to you?

What changed your read on Salad between days?

@Chii, I’m wondering what made my posts chill!town to chill!scum.

I've put you on my first list as Town, however, I've never respected the order. This is something I usually reveal later in-game, but seems like I do have a FoS on me (Aaron), so I should start explaining my game-flow.

First list I've never intended to put real thoughts on it, since D1 is a info-gathering day without any other tools but talking, however, people can argue between them and you start seeing how humans interact with each others. Humans are animals of habit and therefore if someone argues with you or becomes a little more aggro, people are most likely to either trust or target that person. There's no in-between.

Aaron is an example, he's been talkative, shared thoughts and his effect on people was positive, so people trust him, however, I can also say Salad-Gimm1ck is an example. Gimm1ck became pretty pushy against Salad and so Salad voted against him. These are humans habits.

Anyway, I get way too much into details.

TL;DL

- You were never on my Town list as highly trusted, I even called you "my most neutral read" in #280:

[...]

IMO,

Salad is the most neutral read I have

, therefore I gave him towncred. His plays are literally just... I haven't seen him getting too involved and that either because he doesn't want much attention on him (assuming he is PR, anyone can be at this point, we still haven't pushed someone to claim), or he's taking part of this game out of respect (assuming he's just a Vanilla Town with no other power, but to help us solve the puzzle).

I could've also assumed he's scum

, however, I trust that a scum will select a target to try and push for a lynch. A specific target, someone that can be read as a big influence for Town...

[...]

Now you've pushed Gimm1ck, which is somehow strange to me. It was sudden, but you did mention about his own contradiction on Dong's mislynch, however, instead of questioning and pushing him to explain stuff, you voted on sight. That's off to me, IMO Town should always try and push their scumreads to say something wrong and then vote. Once you push someone and they say something wrong, that's when you can support your arguments and start a conflict, I would say, or what is it called here, a wagon.

As I said earlier, you were never highly trusted, Salad. I've also stated during D1 that I want people that know each other in-game because I can abuse that and such a coincidence that I've put you on the list of people that looks like they've played together before (Dong, Salad, Teacher which I've stated in #152) and so of course that I've put all three of you as not-scums. I wanted you to show me how much can you read each other and make my job easier here.

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and

don't be afraid to change your mind

.

Technically, I've never actually changed my mind. This reasoning started since #131 and has developed as time passed and conversations were taking place. I just gathered more info during this time to back-up my actions.

Now that I've explained my game-flow and reasoning behind my plays, I would like y'all to share feedback, especially you, Aaron. Let me know why am I associated to Salad.

[Chibiie]

I hope my posts are aesthetically pleasing to y'all. I am enjoying doing this a lot.

[Saladman27]

.
Aaron is an example, he's been talkative, shared thoughts and his effect on people was positive, so people trust him, however, I can also say Salad-Gimm1ck is an example.

Gimm1ck became pretty pushy against Salad and so Salad voted against him

. These are humans habits.

Gimm1ck wasn’t really pushy. While yes I should’ve prob didn’t vote him right off the bat, I voted him because his argument against me was just a regurgitated version of other people’s case on me.

Salad:

I think Salad is Scum simply because of his newest post.
Using a Random number generator to choose a wagon, seems really scummy, I get that it was to "spice things up" but I feel like scum would hide "Randomness" into their votes.

Just as an excuse to vote someone without an actual reason.

I used randomness because of my indecisiveness. May I ask why you’re keeping your vote on Merfin?

Actually, VOTE: Spartan for now, I’ll wait for dong to come back from v/la.

Again, I don't see any real thought as to why.

It looks like he is just trying to jump on whatever wagon is there.

Plus, I know that my post count is the lowest but if you look at the actual content, I think Salad has had the least to add. I only mention this because people keep talking about my post count. I honestly think that Merfin added more to the game than Salad. At least Merfin had a post explaining why they voted for someone and had examples.

VOTE: Salad

-snipping my quote so that it's not adding to the wall of text-

First, I said for some bullshit reason because I actually forgot why. I put dong on there because they were one of the top 2 wagons. I voted spartan because I wanted to wait for dong, but I should’ve unvoted instead.

So, you are basically saying that you will just +1 whatever the biggest wagon is currently?

Not necessarily now, but yeah, basically.

I honestly do not like this. While yes, having a flip day one is beneficial to town,

you should not be mindlessly hopping on to a wagon for the sheer sake of having a wagon

- this is personally a scummy mindset.
I generally feel that town would have a wagon going on a scumread/lean and be pressuring that slot at that current moment - having a filler post of 'I'm going to +1 the biggest wagon' without making significant attempts to wagon onto another person you personally feel is scummy (or providing a reason to +1 the wagon), I classify that as scummy.

[Chibiie]

[...]

1) To confuse us. Pretty much everyone expressed some concerns against him during the last day phase, so keeping him alive and having the town pressure and possibly mislynch him would be the optimal choice, but sometimes scum will make sub-optimal choices for the purpose of throwing us off. This seems unlikely to happen, especially in a Newbie game.

2) Scum thought he was PR. PR's tend to play a little bit scummy/low-profile so that scum won't kill them, but not too scummy that they'll get mislynched. This seems the more likely scenario to me since it's important for scum to PR hunt and get rid of any advantage that the town has.

This is the kind of kill I see coming from someone who's experienced with mafia and/or someone who's being coached by an experienced player. I think at least one of our remaining SE (Salad/teacher) players is scum.

[...]

I will leave both of these here.

I think the likely explanation for GeorgeBailey's death was that scum thought he was a PR.

It is not FoS. It is info that I use to back-up my analyses.

I'm actually curious because you're also the one who said that this NK was something an SE would do to throw Town off, yet now you say that it is likely that George was read as PR.

To continue this assumption, I would like to say that the contradiction was in one post only actually.
Re-reading these two posts I can see that the contradiction took place in #351 only. I really doubt and SE would have read George as PR, however coming up with this analysis (and I don't wanna be looked at like the black sheep of this game) really lowers you down on my list.

Will I sound like trash? I might be, but I do have a feeling that this might've been your NK and was planned since D1 once George started defending Dong. That was the perfect setup for a scum 200 IQ blackmail NK.

Can I be wrong? Of course. Is this actually an FoS if I think about it? Could be, actually.

Anyway

, will count you as neutral for now, Aaron.

Any obvtown can flip scum by the end of a game.

[teacher]

Im loving that everyone motivated (or pretend motivated) to do NKA. And I agree with a lot of it - I do think this was a PR snipe attempt, or an attempt to avoid the obvious protection candidates (Aaron>me).

Im most suspect of those that didnt find a PR hint. On rereading, I thought the repeating word could be a role claim.

1. What is your experience at Mafia
This is my first game. But I've a lot of the variants of Mafia.



2. How do you play as town
I'm guessing you gotta just be

friendly

and deduce suspicious actions
3. How do you play as scum
I'm guessing I have to be secretive and get innocents lynched
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

Scum:

Eagerness to Vote, defending player for no reason.

Town:

Friendly?

Skeptical of baseless lynches.
5. Time zone/standard posting times
EDT

To be clear, it wasnt a claim, and I didnt think it was. In fact, I thought George claimed VT in his first post.

Teacher Lynch

Bottom Text

VOTE: Teacher

With VT being the initials of the bottom text.



The r

[teacher]

EBWOP: The reasoning -- avoid protective candidates, and seeing friendly neighbor possible claims -- suggests to me that we are in Row B.

[teacher]

I hope my posts are aesthetically pleasing to y'all. I am enjoying doing this a lot.

Im concerned that the level of your involvement, and level of skill, has changed so much across days. Why did you hold this back D1?

[teacher]

I havent been able to be much involved this week, but should have more time this weekend/first couple of days next week. The biggest thing I am regretting is not picking up the number of people pushing/SRing Dong but pushing against his wagon, like they didnt want the blame. I was wrong in my reads, and need to start again, but some of that felt like TMI. This is mostly to Spartan/Gimm1ck - can you speak on this?

[Saladman27]

@Teach, who do you think is “my partner”?

[Saladman27]

@yoda, if you had to choose one person from your town list to be “my partner” who would it be?

[teacher]

@Teach, who do you think is “my partner”?

In case you didnt catch it, I intentionally didnt share reads because I want to start over from scratch and reread the game. I was clearly fairly off base yesterday.

I saw Aaron posting on who could and couldnt be your partner. That's the sort of thing I want to think about on a reread.

[Yodavader]

@yoda, if you had to choose one person from your town list to be “my partner” who would it be?

The only person I could choose from my list that is town/town-leaning would probably be teacher. Again, IMO, he was the clear cut NK choice and it didn't happen. I tried to come up with reasons on the others but couldn't find anything that gave an inkling of nontown.

[AaronFrost]

I think the likely explanation for GeorgeBailey's death was that scum thought he was a PR.

If that's the case, I truly believe that none of the SE or experienced with Mafia overall is actually scum. In an earlier post you said that all I did feels like newb!town to you, I would like you to define "newb". Is it platform-wise or general Mafia game-wise?

Mostly platform-wise. You mentioned you had played social deduction games elsewhere but this was your first time on MS. The reason I say this is because of your idea of no lynching yesterday, which is not the norm on this site.

I'm actually curious because you're also the one who said that this NK was something an SE would do to throw Town off, yet now you say that it is likely that George was read as PR.

Solid misrep. I said it was possible, but unlikely. In the very same post I mention that it's more likely that scum thought he was a PR.

Any experienced Mafia player should be able to see that (and this is my point of view only, as always) George had no PR-hints in his posts, besides the possible Masons (Dong / George), otherwise, I, personally couldn't see any other PR-hints.

That's from your point of view though. Like teacher pointed out, there were some potential indications that George could've been the FN, and that's something that people are likely to miss. Even I'm usually pretty bad at noticing crumbs until they're pointed out to me.

I call this a contradiction, which makes me wanna lower you down on my TL, there are so many games where obvtown is actually scum and plays a perfect Town.

So what is the contradiction? I do agree that I've seen "obvtown" players turn out to be scum pretty often.

[AaronFrost]

I think Salad/Chiibie could be the team. Salad/Yoda is also possible.

I don't think Salad/Gimm1ck are ever a team.

I would like more info on this. You've already posted your list and then came up with a contradiction, I mean, at the end of my post I've posted what everyone can read in the Mod posts, so don't take my request as FoS. I'm genuinely curious of how you associate me to Salad. What puts me in this light to you?

Yeah I can expand.

Basically it's the sudden shift in your read on Salad. I read 280 as you were townreading Salad, and even if the read was neutral at that point, the sudden shift just feels unnatural to me. Seems like you were trying to distance from him on Day 1 and now you have an opportunity on Day 2 to go with the crowd that's scumreading him. Not 100% sure if Chiibie would bus him that quickly into the day though, so for now Chiibie/Salad team is just a theory.

[AaronFrost]

If that's the case, I truly believe that none of the SE or experienced with Mafia overall is actually scum. In an earlier post you said that all I did feels like newb!town to you, I would like you to define "newb". Is it platform-wise or general Mafia game-wise?

But yet you're scumreading Salad now?