newbie 1956 - car seat headrest [we gotta go back]

[eth0s]

OOOOH pagetop. Vote me to L-1 please and thanks

[RadiantCowbells]

That AtE isn't going to change anything.

I don't believe that you honestly want to be lynched. I don't believe that anyone else is gonna believe that.

If you want to have a serious argument about who else might be scum, unvote and explain why you think that it's Spangled.

[eth0s]

I'm not unvoting and I asked you first

[eth0s]

I don't want to be lynched. I want to be at L-1 to test for a certain reaction. So yeah. About your second scumread

[RadiantCowbells]

Still here, still thinking about the question.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Jamelia is town regardless of how pro-scum his play is because he feels town. I don't think that read is subject to revision at this point. Jamelia has actually eaten the vast majority of my reread time today as the primary vector for a loss and I no longer think that they're realistically a vector for a loss.
I can still, on your behalf Jamelia explain why I think your play has been pro-scum for most of the game even though I think you're town if you want to understand where I'm coming from.

So, if you are not in fact scum I would say that the partner is Spangled and I think that there's some evidence to support this,
1) A ridiculous amount of Spangled posts that asked Egix questions in the early game. Ctrl-f @ in Spangled's ISO, it's always towards Egix. So many questions early, no follow up.
2) Egix96 calls Spangled his top townread despite virtually no actual interactions with him nor build-up to that read.
3) The case from Spangled onto Egix was pretty terrible.
4) Calling the person who quickhammered the doc dumb!town instead of scum.
5) Weird waffle townread on you after your entrance that he then discredits and starts calling you out for buddying him.

OTOH, there's reasons I'm skeptical that it's him, such as
1) Not unvoting when the rest of the gang all unvoted Egix
2) A few posts that felt towny and that I'm not sure are in his scum range, mostly this one.

[RadiantCowbells]

Did I hallucinate the @thing? I think I did. deifnitely more random questions in that direction whereas most of hte ones to other people are less questions and more statements idk.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I didn't, I just hallucinated the @ thing specifically. There's still a way disproportionate number of random, empty questions.

[RadiantCowbells]

I should really read Faustiv again, I haven't done that since like before I had the slot.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh, hmm.

[RadiantCowbells]

This is very nice.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that I never really considered Faust scum because I was quick to write his correct Egix read off and make him town.
His calling Egix scum (but lynch Eth0s and learn his alignment from that flip) at the end of Day 1 and the mutual scumreads from Faust and Egix could easily be scum.
He himself says that scum are motivated to bus there. I dunno. The gamestate's weird and hard to parse. I don't feel like he tried hard enough to sort you on D2.

[RadiantCowbells]

For almost the entirety of the game, Faustiv does a shit ton of

declaring

reads but spends very little time explaining them.
There's really only two exceptions, two points in the game where Faustiv actually gives an explanation for why his read on a player is what they are

1) NMSA, and that still felt overblown and potentially TMI and the dragging Egix into it feels kinda bad.
2) Egix on the massive wallpost about why they're scum that also feels really... certain that Egix is scum in a bad way.

I don't get why he dropped his townread on Eth0s for the terrible self meta to vote Egix. It ended up being pro-town because Egix was scum but I feel like it might have been TMI.
The part in the game where both of them are at L-1 is somewhat hard to make sense of but I think I could buy both scum being at L-1 at the same time.

I dunno. Maybe. I'm worried that even bringing this up is gonna ensure that I get lynched today but hey I'm done refraining from saying things.

[RadiantCowbells]

With this day having gone on for 4.5 days now I think the fact that there's 4 people not voting is very odd. And I am somewhat inclined to believe the scumteam may both be apart of those 4...

I agree with this and think the discussion has gotten quite stale.

No one townreads Egix right? Let’s get him to L1 and see what he has to say.

also this is a kinda weird post after the quickhammer D1 and it feels like he knew that Egix intended to claim doctor.

[Spangled]

ugggggh far bloody out you guys have posted more in the last hours than I have the entire game — which is pretty sad to be honest on my part but anyway

The thing with RC is, at this point if he’s scum it’s autoloss for him. In fact the actions, the path, he took when he repped in made it autoloss for him if he’s scum; there’s no way he’s not getting lynched in this gamestate, either before or after eth0s. If we lynched eth0s and he flipped green, then we would lynch RC. No way he gets out of that here. No sir. And RC is not a bad player as scum, aye? So it’s practically ludicrous that he would take this path as scum, unless he has no other options... and he didn’t have no options; he had tons. He could have pushed anyone as scum; anyone. Possibly even faüstiv if he had a mind to. The idea that he would do this as scum is crazy; it’s a Hail Mary with no real benefits. And the idea that he’s counting on someone thinking of this is equally stupidly ridiculous.
Pedit:
Although now that he’s thinking of reasons for scum!me or scum!faüstiv makes this reasoning a little worse but I still think that’s a crazy way to enter the game as scum.

And some of eth0s’ posts have been really really bad these past few pages. Tone is not nice, especially considering that if he’s scum he’s been cruising so far with a win in his sight, and RC has come in swinging and upset the whole game for him, and eth0s has to discredit and destroy RC as fast as he can to practically have any hope of winning. But I can also see that coming from town!eth0s; his tone as town... is often not great. Maybe I’m misremembering but I’m pretty sure there were times in Crosswords where I looked at some posts, thought that they were ew, but discarded them against the balance of his ISO — and he was town. But those posts have been

bad

.

@RC
By the way, I called Draynth dumb town because I could not envision a world where scum would be so blatantly obvious as that. If Egix had flipped doc we would have powerlynched Draynth; no way around it. No claim at L-1 and a hammer is one thing, but a claim and a hammer in response is really quite another.
I also don’t see where I discredit my own townread on eth0s just after making it; you’ll have to point out to me where I do that.

[RadiantCowbells]

They say that sometimes when someone reps in as town, you can almost know that they’re town almost immediately; I have felt this before and I’m (almost) feeling it now.
Which honestly conflicts with my gut-feelings on Airan, and this is a weird feeling — one gut-read with stuff backing it up vs another gut read with some stuff backing it up.

But I’m definitely erring on the side of town!eth0s, and this is, by and large, because of his read on Veg — he goes against the flow here, where there had been a narrative proposing scum!veg building prior to my Airan case, and it also agrees with my read on Veg in a way I can understand.
And I can see Airan as newbtown making those posts, and, honestly, I’ve come to realise that I’ve only seen Airan from the perspective of ‘this is newbscum and here’s why’, rather than thinking about whether or not newbtown could make those kinds of posts too. And newbtown... could, I think.
It annoys me, but I think this is probably town.
UNVOTE:

And the game thread really did slow straight down when the Airan-wagon started CFD’ing. Like maybe that’s not indicative of much because Airan wasn’t here, but I feel like scum was either on the wagon or waiting for a good excuse — further arguments for scum!Airan or a sucky defense from him, I imagine — to hop on.

I do kinda feel a bit buddied though dude. Why do I feature so much in your catchup?
And if we lynched faüstiv today and they flipped green, who would you think would be the scumteam then?

This was the post in question. I never thought you were scummy, fwiw, the "posts outside of his scumrange" always outweighed everything else as it does for everyone.

[RadiantCowbells]

And some of eth0s’ posts have been really really bad these past few pages. Tone is not nice

I think that the most valuable thing you can do for town right now is to force Eth0s to hear from someone who isn't me that his current push on me is terrible.
He won't hear it from me, maybe you can get through to him and then at least he has to engage this thread from a different angle which will help me either be sure he's scum or

maybe

figure out that he's not.

[RadiantCowbells]

And some of eth0s’ posts have been really really bad these past few pages. Tone is not nice

I think that the most valuable thing you can do for town right now is to force Eth0s to hear from someone who isn't me that his current push on me is terrible.
He won't hear it from me, maybe you can get through to him and then at least he has to engage this thread from a different angle which will help me either be sure he's scum or

maybe

figure out that he's not.

[Jamelia]

I just got off work and holy hell.

[Spangled]

I am confused by your positions at this point though RC. I think you’ve said — or at the very least implied — a few times that you’re pretty sure that eth0s is scum. Why are you taking a step or two away from it?

But eth0s, yeah. If you’re town please try and step back from this and think about it. I think it’s pretty likely that RC is town here considering his behaviour coming into the game, and I can sympathise with repping in to a slot you think is town

because

you think it’s town.

I’m entertaining the idea that this is t/t currently; eth0s was quite good early game — I made a list at some point as to why eth0s was probably town but I lost it and never posted it. The idea that it’s t/t is difficult for me though; yes I can see faüstiv scum or Jam scum but RC and eth0s both going at each other is... blurgh. It’s hard to get a really, really good solid read on anyone at this point. Might reread later.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am confused by your positions at this point though RC. I think you’ve said — or at the very least implied — a few times that you’re pretty sure that eth0s is scum. Why are you taking a step or two away from it?

There's no point just saying Ethos is scum Ethos is scum Ethos is scum ad infinitum.
It's the same reason I wanted to be slow to out reads: I want to be able to critically engage every single slot in the game before I lynch anyone.
I'm comfortable enough with I think everyone besides Faustiv but I would like to talk to Faustiv before we lynch Eth0s.

Like... I'm not sure what your expectations of me here are. I'm doing my due diligence, and it's not scummy for me to do my due diligence.
It would be scummy if I never considered alternatives.

[Jamelia]

Spoiler:

I think if you're town you're grudge lynching me or glory seeking and can go to hell, honestly.
I don't think there is a universe where you're town and actually believe the stuff you're claiming to believe.

I have zero reason to pursue anything besides our two lynches before endgame from this point because I wouldn't want to give you an unearned win if you're town, so.

Why even continue this discussion? We're both locked in, let's go. You know that I'm better at arguing, continuing this fight will only hurt your chances.
Everyone else just vote one of us.

I think that is a really bold case to make for someone who was scumleaning me at first and is now full in on eth0s.

Hey Jamelia, how do you feel about the fact that Eth0s is trying to argue that you're my "primary scumread" while simultaneously calling me scum, and talking up my town game, and therefore setting him up to use the logic tomorrow that "WELL RCS PRIMARY SCUMREAD WAS JAMELIA AND HE ONLY OMGUSSED ME BECAUSE SALT SO THATS THE REAL SCUM WHO WE SHOULD LYNCH"

"How do I feel about the fact that eth0s is trying to argue...": This situation is under the assumption that Faustiv/Spangled also think I am their main scumlead. So I don't really know what scum!eth0s plan would be here. If eth0s knows 100% you're green, why push so hard just to set himself up for a lynch at F3? The only way I can see this being true is if what happened with the fake mason thing WAS a fuck up by eth0s, and he got away with it. So he thinks he can do it again.

Does it suck if Jamelia (who is the only other scum contender) gets an undeserved win? Sure, maybe. But I want scum to win more games in this setup so I look better
So I win no matter what happens, it's great. I just have to continue pressing the buttons and ripping apart your case on me and I am a winner
The only way I lose this game in my head is if you don't end up dead for your play.

This is not town-sided at all whether or not you are scum

I think Jamelia is town regardless of how pro-scum his play is because he feels town. I don't think that read is subject to revision at this point. Jamelia has actually eaten the vast majority of my reread time today as the primary vector for a loss and I no longer think that they're realistically a vector for a loss.
I can still, on your behalf Jamelia explain why I think your play has been pro-scum for most of the game even though I think you're town if you want to understand where I'm coming from.

So, if you are not in fact scum I would say that the partner is Spangled and I think that there's some evidence to support this,
1) A ridiculous amount of Spangled posts that asked Egix questions in the early game. Ctrl-f @ in Spangled's ISO, it's always towards Egix. So many questions early, no follow up.
2) Egix96 calls Spangled his top townread despite virtually no actual interactions with him nor build-up to that read.
3) The case from Spangled onto Egix was pretty terrible.
4) Calling the person who quickhammered the doc dumb!town instead of scum.
5) Weird waffle townread on you after your entrance that he then discredits and starts calling you out for buddying him.

OTOH, there's reasons I'm skeptical that it's him, such as
1) Not unvoting when the rest of the gang all unvoted Egix
2) A few posts that felt towny and that I'm not sure are in his scum range, mostly this one.

I cannot tell if you are buddying me and then setting me up

For almost the entirety of the game, Faustiv does a shit ton of

declaring

reads but spends very little time explaining them.
There's really only two exceptions, two points in the game where Faustiv actually gives an explanation for why his read on a player is what they are

1) NMSA, and that still felt overblown and potentially TMI and the dragging Egix into it feels kinda bad.
2) Egix on the massive wallpost about why they're scum that also feels really... certain that Egix is scum in a bad way.

I don't get why he dropped his townread on Eth0s for the terrible self meta to vote Egix. It ended up being pro-town because Egix was scum but I feel like it might have been TMI.
The part in the game where both of them are at L-1 is somewhat hard to make sense of but I think I could buy both scum being at L-1 at the same time.

I dunno. Maybe. I'm worried that even bringing this up is gonna ensure that I get lynched today but hey I'm done refraining from saying things.

I've said from the beginning that faustiv is my main scumlead and this still hasn't changed. He has been overlooked for countless things just because they have been the most vocal about people NOT being scum

ugggggh far bloody out you guys have posted more in the last hours than I have the entire game — which is pretty sad to be honest on my part but anyway

The thing with RC is, at this point if he’s scum it’s autoloss for him. In fact the actions, the path, he took when he repped in made it autoloss for him if he’s scum; there’s no way he’s not getting lynched in this gamestate, either before or after eth0s. If we lynched eth0s and he flipped green, then we would lynch RC. No way he gets out of that here. No sir. And RC is not a bad player as scum, aye? So it’s practically ludicrous that he would take this path as scum, unless he has no other options... and he didn’t have no options; he had tons. He could have pushed anyone as scum; anyone. Possibly even faüstiv if he had a mind to. The idea that he would do this as scum is crazy; it’s a Hail Mary with no real benefits. And the idea that he’s counting on someone thinking of this is equally stupidly ridiculous.
Pedit:
Although now that he’s thinking of reasons for scum!me or scum!faüstiv makes this reasoning a little worse but I still think that’s a crazy way to enter the game as scum.

And some of eth0s’ posts have been really really bad these past few pages. Tone is not nice, especially considering that if he’s scum he’s been cruising so far with a win in his sight, and RC has come in swinging and upset the whole game for him, and eth0s has to discredit and destroy RC as fast as he can to practically have any hope of winning. But I can also see that coming from town!eth0s; his tone as town... is often not great. Maybe I’m misremembering but I’m pretty sure there were times in Crosswords where I looked at some posts, thought that they were ew, but discarded them against the balance of his ISO — and he was town. But those posts have been

bad

.

@RC
By the way, I called Draynth dumb town because I could not envision a world where scum would be so blatantly obvious as that. If Egix had flipped doc we would have powerlynched Draynth; no way around it. No claim at L-1 and a hammer is one thing, but a claim and a hammer in response is really quite another.
I also don’t see where I discredit my own townread on eth0s just after making it; you’ll have to point out to me where I do that.

I think I agree that this could be a T/T case because these two were not my main scumreads. but im honestly really confused and do not trust own reads after last round.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey Jamelia

Forget about me for a moment and look purely at Eth0s's case against me

Do you think that it's valid and do you think that my seeing it as a case made in bad faith is a valid reading of it?

[RadiantCowbells]

That's 2 questions

1) Do you think that what Eth0s has said regarding him not being my scumread is proven correct by what I've said and do you think anything else that's part of his case I didn't rebut appropriately.
2) Do you think that it's reasonable for me to take his scumread on me as being "in bad faith", ie not an honest attempt to read me? Whether you agree that my response to it is valid or not.

[Jamelia]

That's 2 questions

1) Do you think that what Eth0s has said regarding him not being my scumread is proven correct by what I've said and do you think anything else that's part of his case I didn't rebut appropriately.

I think you both are using reasons from outside metas that I don't understand. You both are combining self-meta and previous games in order to make your point stronger, and I don't really understand the meta because I am still new.

I think you stated from the top that I was your main scumlead and you were confident in that, but because of eth0s' attempt to quick lynch you (which is scummy) you changed your mind.

I think you both have shared what you think is correct/incorrect about his game and Geyde's game. So, honestly IDK. I didn't scum-read either of you (Geyde) before this all went down. So now I am just confused.

2) Do you think that it's reasonable for me to take his scumread on me as being "in bad faith", ie not an honest attempt to read me? Whether you agree that my response to it is valid or not.

I think that it's reasonable for eth0s to have a scumread on you because he was scumreading Geyde before this day. But I think the self-meta reasoning is unreasonable.