[REVIEW] Open Setup Reviews

[chennisden]

Numbers chosen at a whim, let me ev this

[chennisden]

Yes EV is fine, 8v4 also works.

[chennisden]

lets see how this goes

9p, two town prs and an rb

prs are cop, doc, jk, neap

each night prs choose someone to give their night action to. for example cop gives person A ability. then person A may invest someone that night

action fails if pr or person given night action is killed or blocked, for doc/jk night actions resolve first.

[Dunnstral]

Ugokanaide!

3 Mafia

9 Town Motion Detectors

1 Town Compulsive Fruit Vendor

Setup information:

When performing a kill, instead of sending out one member, all mafia members visit
At the beginning of each day, mafia is privately given a list of everybody who acted, but not who they visited

Does this setup work in theory/ is the setup breakable/ should it be 15 players

[BNL]

This feels like it can be broken by massclaim and directing actions

FV is negative utility here so there’s no reason for them not to claim

[callforjudgement]

I think it's broken via leashing most players to not act. Having, say, 3 or 4 players publicly assigned to motion-detection every day would give you a huge amount of investigative information, with no counterplay available to the scum (if the fruit vendor claims, false positives are impossible, so every "motion" result creates a 1v1 and every "no motion" result sets up a "detector is scum and/or target is town" relationship).

[popsofctown]

A confirmed inno is more useful on a latter day than on day 1, better PoEing, gaining information that players shaded a slot that has been revealed to be IC, so to me it seems like an open question whether FV should claim day 1. I'd lean towards that you probably should I just don't think it's truly a forgone conclusion. After it claims it does nothing but be D1 IC because it can always target one player who said they were going to act anyway.

This setup is kinda similar to my Matsuda Mafia, and some of my drafts for that involved giving mafia members the same investigative role so that the mafia can disobey the procedures of the breaking strategy. That solution is an uglier fit here since using additional motion detectors creates implicative motion but there's maybe ways to do it, like saying the mafia who performed the kill can multiact a motion detect or saying one of the mafias is an Ascetic Motion Detector.

The leashing strategy doesn't investigate the entire town so you can probably tweak the numbers to get the desired 40ish percent town EV on a leashed playthrough of the setup but most players on site don't seem to want to play setups that should be leashed.

The "list of who acted" thing is pretty cool but gets excised by the leashing, the town should have an agreed upon list of who will act from the previous day.

[popsofctown]

Matsuda Mafia

[Enter]

Perfectionist Mafia

1 Perfectionist Cop
1 Perfectionist Doctor
2 Mafia Goons
5 Perfectionist Townies

Perfectionist Cop - When submitting a night action, submits both who they are targeting and their alignment. The next morning, if they don't die, they were correct.
Perfectionist Doctor - If the doctor does not block the night kill, the doctor kills both themselves and their target. Cannot target themselves
Perfectionist Townie - Every night perfectionist townies will be allowed to submit their thoughts on who the current mafia team is. If they are correct, they are invulnerable to the mafia night kill.

[Enter]

Children of Cupid

At the beginning of the game, roles and alignments are randomly, separately distributed.
3 Mafia Aligned players
10 Town aligned players

3 Sons of Cupid
3 Daughters of Cupid

Sons of Cupid - Every night, each son of cupid submits a pair of players. If all submissions are identical, those two players become lovers, become informed that they are now lovers, get a private topic, and share the additional wincon "You may also win if you are the last two players in the game."
Daughters of Cupid - Every night, each daughter of cupid submits a pair of players. If all submissions are identical, those two players become lovers, but are not informed of it. They now share the additional wincon "You may also win if you are the last two players in the game."

[Enter]

Color wheel mafia (also known as "modding hell")

3 mafia aligned players
12 town aligned players

Make 7 threads. 1 is the game thread, which will exclusively have votes and vote-counts in it.
6 of the threads are PTs, labeled, red, blue, green, yellow, and orange
each player has access to exactly two PTs as follows

red-blue
red-yellow
red-green
red-orange
red-purple
blue-yellow
blue-green
blue-orange
blue-purple
yellow-green
yellow-orange
yellow-purple
green-orange
green-purple
orange-purple

Make 1 mafia thread for the mafia to discuss.
Mafia get a night-kill

[Enter]

Seeing Double

2 Mafia
8 Town

2 Main PTs each with half of the player base
Every player has a partner in the other Main PT that they share a PT with. They do not know the alignment of the person that is their partner
1 Mafia PT

[popsofctown]

Really douses the informed minority-uninformed majority feel when the mafia never appear as less than 33% of any particular discourse.

pedit: Seeing Double is probably more playable for that reason.

[Enter]

"Where is the poison?"

2 Mafia Poisoners
5 Vanilla Townies

Each mafia poisoner submits a target, and whether that target has wine or poison in front of them (as well as a message, if they'd like). The target receives the message, who targeted them, and that they have been targeted. The target must then choose to swap the glasses, or keep them. If the target had poison in front of them, and they choose to keep, they die; if they choose to swap, the mafia poisoner who targeted them dies. Opposite results occur if the target had wine in front of them.
Every day, two players are sequentially voted to majority (once a single player is voted up, they are removed from the list of players available to be voted for). When the second player is voted up, the first submits whether the wine is in front of the first or second player (the other one has poison in front of them). All players in the game may continue posting until the second player chooses to swap or keep the cups. Whichever player has poison in front of them after the second player's choice is carried out, dies.

[TemporalLich]

A simple setup featuring the Moonlight Dancer role:

Moonlight Dancer

13 players

1 Werewolf Moonlight Dancer

2 Werewolves

2 Town Moonlight Dancers

8 Vanilla Townies

Moonlight Dancers may PM the moderator at any time saying "Dance in the Moonlight" once per phase.

The moderator will then post "{playername} dances and howls in the moonlight." immediately when a Moonlight Dancer dances in the moonlight.

Days and Nights happen as normal, Werewolves have a factional kill and daytalk.

not sure how original this idea is though...

[northsidegal]

moonlight dancer is basically a named role that can mod-confirm as named, right?

if so i can't really see much utility for the werewolf moonlight dancer outside of fringe lylo counterclaiming scenarios. that basically turns the 2 town MD's into innocent children except worse given that they're forced to out themselves if the werewolf MD claims town MD when run up. 3:10 with 2 innocent children is already unbalanced (in favor of scum), so i would expect that setup to be fairly scumsided.

(interestingly, there was discussion in the NRG of whitelisting a modifier that does essentially what a moonlight dancer does — mod-confirms a role rather than mod-confirming an alignment, as with an innocent child.)

[TemporalLich]

Yeah moonlight dancer is pretty much a named role that can mod-confirm their named role at any time. (unlike what I'd call a "Superstar", a moonlight dancer can repeatedly confirm themselves)

Since it pretty much just leads to a 2:1 "associative group", it mostly is useful for finding the scum dancer, though scum dancer has no incentive to dance early.

I could turn a VT into a third town dancer, but that makes you less likely to find scum in the dancer group than the non-dancer group.

[TemporalLich]

Nobility and The Dark Angel

12 players

1 Dark Angel

2 Mafia Goons

9 Vanilla Townies

In addition to voting for lynches, the Town may also vote to elect a noble for the next day. Noble election is by plurality vote and is decided when the lynch is decided.

An elected noble is announced to have an extra lynch vote, and counts as two people for lynch majority. If the Dark Angel is ever an elected noble, the game instantly ends in a Town win, with the Mafia and Dark Angel losing.

A Noble election vote can either use bold e.g.

ELECT: TemporalLich

or or heal tags e.g. HEAL: TemporalLich

You can't vote to lynch and elect the same player. Voting No Noble is allowed.

There is no Noble vote during LYLO. (2 townies and 1 mafioso are alive, or 3 townies and 2 mafiosi are alive. This is regardless of whether the Dark Angel is alive or not.)

In addition to the factional nightkill, the Mafia may attempt to appoint a hidden noble. The mafia may multitask.

A hidden noble has an extra lynch vote. They count as one person for lynch majority. A hidden noble knows they are a hidden noble, but hidden nobility is not public.

The Mafia may not kill the noble that has been elected the previous day.

If the Mafia appoints the Dark Angel as a hidden noble, the Dark Angel exits the game in a loss and the Mafia gets a 1-shot daykill to be used in the Mafia PT.

The Dark Angel instantly loses if they become a noble. The Dark Angel wins if the game ends before this happens or the Dark Angel dies.

Mafia win when they outnumber Town or equal Town.

Town win when the Mafia are dead or the Dark Angel becomes an elected noble.

Mafia may privately communicate at any time.

I forgot to push this to review x_x

[popsofctown]

You have an unsavory situation when the first three lynches are mislynches and the Dark Angel was not found. That gamestate is 2 Mafia, 1 Dark Angel, 3 VT. Pro-town players don't control enough votes to actually push a lynch. Correct play for the antitown parties should be, both mafia claim mafia, Dark Angel claims, then the mafia and the dark angel vote either mafia member to be elected noble + a no lynch. The following night, the mafia get to decide whether to shoot a VT and immediately win alongside the dark angel, or be jerkwads and secret elect the Dark Angel so that the Dark Angel loses but the mafia still wins.
That's a pretty undesirable flavor of kingmaker.

[Jingle]

3v2v1 should endgame, actually. Dark Angel Claims, no lynch other than Dark Angel becomes possible, town can't win.

[Jingle]

My only issue with it is that mafia can get screwed by 3p playing poorly, but that's kind of the central conceit. Without working out EV I can't be sure it's balanced, but it's probably close enough that it's reasonable to run, and the players know what they're getting into.

[popsofctown]

If the town are also jerks they might refuse to vote the Dark Angel for the lynch. It's not like voting the dark angel for the lynch furthers the town wincon. Town and mafia could both say, "obviously scum won this game, but we are all annoyed by the dark angel, so let's no lynch then you scumzors make the Dark Angel lose before beating us".

3v2v1 should definitely be mod-resolved "Mafia and Dark Angel win, it is over", but I'm wondering if there's an elegant way to rewrite the mechanics so that outcome is inherent and natural.

[TemporalLich]

3:2:1 is considered to be LYLO by the game, so the Dark Angel should have already secured the win at that point

[popsofctown]

Ah.

I think I misread "there is no Noble vote during LyLo" to mean, "the noble does not control an additional vote during LyLo". But what you meant was, "players do not vote to elect a Noble during LyLo".

[popsofctown]

That raises the question of whether there are additional vote in LyLo, are you going to let mafia force wins in gamestates that would otherwise be LyLo using the noble vote and hidden noble vote?