Large Normal 223 | New Beginnings | GAME OVER

[Kop]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

[profii]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

[Garmr]

Next two properties after the scumslip are Titus and Eevee. Everyone

remember.

While Titus is a liability to town because she voted me. I am leaning to her being more town.

This makes her a liability how?

Well if your town anyone who votes you is technically a liability because they can cause your mislynch in mylo. The best position as any alignment to win games is if your left alive in lylo and your more townie than the other players. Therefore you have to manage between hunting scum and nipping liability's.

There's multiple ways of handling a liability debunking their case and lynching scum before Lylyo if they are stubborn, convincing them your town by hunting scum or debunking their arguments, hoping they get night killed or just lynching them as a last resort if your scum reads not are not going to get lynched and you have compromise and they are a option.

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

[Kop]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

We can't rule it out, but in this situation, it's hard to see considering scum have almost full numbers baring the traitor so they are kind of in a good position, but on the other side of the argument, they could have set this plan up during the night phase to try cement Cliff into a stronger town read for later on in the game when the numbers have dwindled, and left in the unknowns.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

I left that as a possibility, but it's something we can sort out later.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I was wondering if JJD was going to claim that he gave Billy the fruit on N2 and did so because Billy claimed VT, ergo, establishing the existance of a fruit and giving some credence to the simple claim.
However, as Billy rightly points out, JJD totally missed the crumb and it was a homing beacon of a crumb, so that is ruled out.

On the Cliff side of things, he was expecting JJD to say he received a fruit and he did not, I think Cliff gave JJD a lot of leeway for essentially having a guilty, but given that Cliff told us his role was a negative utility, which it isn't really either means he didnt understand the power his role posseses or he was scared of claiming a hard guilty for fear of being killed.

I'm inclined to side with Cliff here but I want to check the VC before I re-vote.

I think it would be the latter part for Cliffs thinking.

Fruit vendor is not a strong role as such but can demonstrate the truth in your role, but the only hold back is the fact that there is a mafia version of it, so it wouldn't necessarily mean he's 100% town confirmed in my eyes.

do you think JJD might be getting bussed by cliff?

We can't rule it out, but in this situation, it's hard to see considering scum have almost full numbers baring the traitor so they are kind of in a good position, but on the other side of the argument, they could have set this plan up during the night phase to try cement Cliff into a stronger town read for later on in the game when the numbers have dwindled, and left in the unknowns.

How probable do you think this is given that he would have set this up over 2 days when I dont think anyone was scumreading JJD D1.

Also, can we just kill JJD with fire already and worry about post-flip after the flip. Honestly this site drives me crazy with pre-flip analysis of what that means post-flip.

[Garmr]

@billy

Can I ask why you voted me over JJD. Because I think I was pretty much on point catching Goob trying to tell JJD about his pt.

[Cliff Booth]

I don't think I'm comfortable answering the questions directed at me until I see what a few others think about this situation

[Cliff Booth]

I don't like how hop has been on my case hard and seemingly tried to pussyfoot around it other than implying I'm town that just hindered my own power role

[Billy Pilgrim]

I don't like how hop has been on my case hard and seemingly tried to pussyfoot around it other than implying I'm town that just hindered my own power role

Considering he was scumreading you and based on the context, I think he was calling you the obvscum. I may be wrong here.

[davesaz]

I got around to reading Cliff v JJD right before going to bed last night.
Billy did the research I would have wanted to do, thanks!

I think JJD is scum here. Cliff bussing isn't completely out of the question, but I think it's unlikely. A scum flip definitely doesn't conf Cliff -- that term gets way too overused IMO.

[Hectic]

If anyone ever has a problem with hectic later then think about how they don't have one right now. Last chance for scumreads there.

That's very kind of you, Hop.
I have a confession to make: I had an accident recently.
Life came along and suckerpunched me, before choke slamming me through a steel chair.
As a result, I am still recovering from the decrease of time I have available.
However, I always aspire to reach above and beyond what I should be capable of.
Therefore, I will be making a GRAND return to the game TONIGHT. Please remain excited and eagerly anticipate my return.

@Hopkirk, Aaron, Carca:
I trust the three of you more than anyone else in the world. I really don't know what I'd do without you, and I would love to hear one (or all) of you briefly summarise what's hapenned the last couple of game-days.
I feel this would give me a better understanding for when I do start catching up, and would allow me to fill in the blanks with incredible efficiency and precision.

Love you,
Hectic

[Carcalilly]

Oh my God thats awful. Fuck life.
So excited for your return, Hectic!! <3 and I'm working on it! Sorta!

[Garmr]

If anyone ever has a problem with hectic later then think about how they don't have one right now. Last chance for scumreads there.

That's very kind of you, Hop.
I have a confession to make: I had an accident recently.
Life came along and suckerpunched me, before choke slamming me through a steel chair.
As a result, I am still recovering from the decrease of time I have available.
However, I always aspire to reach above and beyond what I should be capable of.
Therefore, I will be making a GRAND return to the game TONIGHT. Please remain excited and eagerly anticipate my return.

@Hopkirk, Aaron, Carca:
I trust the three of you more than anyone else in the world. I really don't know what I'd do without you, and I would love to hear one (or all) of you briefly summarise what's hapenned the last couple of game-days.
I feel this would give me a better understanding for when I do start catching up, and would allow me to fill in the blanks with incredible efficiency and precision.

Love you,
Hectic

Wish you a speedy recovery.

[Hopkirk]

I don't like how hop has been on my case hard and seemingly tried to pussyfoot around it other than implying I'm town that just hindered my own power role

Considering he was scumreading you and based on the context, I think he was calling you the obvscum. I may be wrong here.

No, JJD is/was the obvscum. I had a scumread there since the end of D2 and JJD flips scum whether cliff is legit town or bussing scum.

Cliff I've got concerns about. In one of the most recent games I played (modded) I saw a scum reveal a guilty (received through a medium) when they realized their partner was getting lynched. I'm not discounting cliff being a scum fruit vendor (no modifiers), but I'm also consider that cliff could be legit. That's why I'm saying we lynch JJD/Eevee/Titus as top priorities, not lynch cliff now.

How was that Carca?

[Hopkirk]

@hectic who was in that game- can you confirm Prometheus/samthony happened like I described there.

[profii]

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

au contraire mon ami

Your issue lies on your belief that I should have claimed Mason on day 1 to inform the town that the roleblocker(or whatever it was) claim was unlikely

So look at this game- I took your point and revealed I'm the backup tracker after tchill claimed tracker which killed a wagon. It remains to be seen if this stopped a lynch or a mislynch but I assume tchill is town for now so in this example it's all good and we assume something positive has come out of the whole situation

So I can easily point to an example of where I reflected and changed my behaviour based on your feedback despite how stupid I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

So why dont you go ahead and get the last word in...

[Garmr]

Unlike Profii who thinks it's narcissistic

because he always assumes the worse in people and can't self reflect

. It's just another way to view the game and aim for victory.

au contraire mon ami

Your issue lies on your belief that I should have claimed Mason on day 1 to inform the town that the roleblocker(or whatever it was) claim was unlikely

So look at this game- I took your point and revealed I'm the backup tracker after tchill claimed tracker which killed a wagon. It remains to be seen if this stopped a lynch or a mislynch but I assume tchill is town for now so in this example it's all good and we assume something positive has come out of the whole situation

So I can easily point to an example of where I reflected and changed my behaviour based on your feedback despite how stupid I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

So why dont you go ahead and get the last word in...

Nah not claim just hammer like you said you would. He was l-1 and both mason were off him...... Don't know where you got the idea I wanted you to claim masons.

I think you look by continuing to try and get say digs in

Kinda like your narcissistic comment. Like I was even talking to you and dropped it

. But you need self awareness to figure that out.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@billy

Can I ask why you voted me over JJD. Because I think I was pretty much on point catching Goob trying to tell JJD about his pt.

It shouldn't surprise you honestly, and I'm a bit confused by your reaction. I scumread you the last game you were town when I was town. Theres something about your confidence level that throws me off. Now, maybe you did pick that up. It's also possible that that's not what you think it is.

Hey @Profii was that comment from Gobble around the time that you told JJD you had a pt?

Pedit: Feel better Hectic. Sorry to hear about the chokeslam though a steel chair. Hopefully you can recover and give your problem a stunner.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD... are you SURE nothing weird happened last night... like... really sure

So there is this in day 2. I'm happy Cliff did something to JJD n1, or at least that is the narrative he is going with let's say

Are you daft? Like, I know you;re not, but most of the GOOD players are getting paranoid of me of late.

HE IS SCUM. SCUM HAVE A TRACKER/WATCHER who SAW ME TARGET HIM. (You KNOW I'm a HIGH PRIORITY check for the scum team regardless. Either that or they shoot me). He asks to know why I targeted him. I do not give out a guilty, so they assume I'm not a Cop (and I'm not by name, but effectively by role).

So, he asks WHY I TARGETED HIM. He/they may have assumed I'm a JK/RB/Motion Detector (I highly doubt they thought I was a Doctor because I wouldn't have protected Cliff).

Like, if I'm getting paranoid myself I should be sus of you because you asked me whom I would Vig, which is fishing for the JK/RB target.

But I seriously lost all hope in the majority of players nowadays I am going to play all my games as a 3P. I will keep all results/info to myself and will not even claim when put to L-1 (I will most likely self-hammer). That way my blood pressure won't rise much higher anymore, because I will be just chilling and I won't care about game outcome.

That said, and in a fional attempt to make you see the light.. IF YOU ARE TOWN.. I am a SIMPLE (Reflexively RB'd if my target is a PR) DISLOYAL (reflexively RB's if my target is my own alignment) Fruit Vendor.

In effect, I can only give fruit for MAFIA GOONS.

If Cliff did get Fruit, he is a Mafia Goon (but he will know he is no TPR so would NOT have fallen for my gambit, because he DID receive fruit so will know I was lying). So Cliff DID NOT receive fruit from me.

So, why does he lie about it? Because I said it would go through if he was a TPR, and since he did NOT get fruit he couldn't have known I was lying, so he fell into the trap and falsely claimed fruit. Notice how long it took him to respond with the nature of the gift. He was thinking and consulting with his teammates on whether it was a "message" or a "gift".

Like, let's assume he did send me a message.. why would he wait all this time to out? He didn't ask me about it until I asked him about my fruit basket, and then not until I outed him as Scum. ONLY THEN does he mention a message from him directed at me. WTF are you all smoking?

LYNCH CLIFF (caught Scum) and look for the Scum Tracker/Watcher if you want to win this bloody game.

Note: Why would I be trying to lynch CLIFF of all players if I was Scum, you idiots? We have Titus and we have RD in this game for starters, so if I was to sacrifice myself in exchange of a TPR it would have been one of the two!!!

I also am know to be cautious as scum (everyone who knows scum!me can confirm) so I would have just shot Cliff if that was the bloody case.

OH, WAIT! "Maybe" not a Tracker/Watcher! If Cliff is the EXACT SAME ROLE I am, then he deduced I was a TPR myself, but didn't know what it was, so that's why he wanted me to claim first.

Either way, I'm "burnt out card" now. I won't be catching the Goon since I'm already outed. So if you want to lynch me first that's cool (at least I can logout from JJD and concentrate on A50). If I see myself @L-1 by the time I finish my catch up I will self-hammer. Promise.

[bob3141]

JJD (8) garmr, hopkirk, bob, carc, cliff, billy, aaron, texcat

looked threw the thread and jjd is on l-1

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

On a serious note, from what I have gathered, I think I essentially have negative town utility

I need to know why cliff said this when it's obvious a loyal fruit is really useful

I second that

[bob3141]

JJd can you confirm that you are visitor and that you visited cliff n1


Cliff can you confirm whether you were visited or not

[bob3141]

Cliff claims loyal fruit vendor and claims to have visited jjd n1. Cliff is that right

And jjd you cliam to ahev received nothing is that right

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

JJD - without saying who just yet, did you send any fruit n2 ?

I did. OF COURSE I did.