Open 767: Nomination Mafia [Day 7]

[Awoo]

VOTE: Sujimuchi

[Sujimichi]

Seems awfully agreeful

Would you prefer that I lie? Pointing out one thing and saying “pretty agreeful” seems disingenuous and reaching for a reason.

That’s just called bad town. Seems to me that your trying to form a misslynch

It’s bad town if you are town. Otherwise it’s scum. I haven’t formed enough of an opinion and am not making a push on your slot, so this is again reaching for a reason.

Providing reasons is Null as personality isn’t Alignment Indicative. Are you saying he’s projecting himself to look bad?

Providing reasons and rationale is what let’s us move beyond personality/meta arguments. I don’t understand this or the following quote.

Didn’t like responses?
What’s you with Responses and Reasoning being alignment indicative?

See above. Your entire “evaluation” of me and Joey seems to be disingenuous posting that you posit supports your vote on me (the counterwagon the PMysterious). You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Seems awfully agreeful

Would you prefer that I lie? Pointing out one thing and saying “pretty agreeful” seems disingenuous and reaching for a reason.

That’s just called bad town. Seems to me that your trying to form a misslynch

It’s bad town if you are town. Otherwise it’s scum. I haven’t formed enough of an opinion and am not making a push on your slot, so this is again reaching for a reason.

Providing reasons is Null as personality isn’t Alignment Indicative. Are you saying he’s projecting himself to look bad?

Providing reasons and rationale is what let’s us move beyond personality/meta arguments. I don’t understand this or the following quote.

Didn’t like responses?
What’s you with Responses and Reasoning being alignment indicative?

See above. Your entire “evaluation” of me and Joey seems to be disingenuous posting that you posit supports your vote on me (the counterwagon the PMysterious). You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point.

I didn’t even check to see who the top wagon were TBH.
I just voted you based off of the confirmed scum’s ISO.
What makes you scum read PM?

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Like full detail.
No simple response.

[Sujimichi]

I've already answered that, and then provided a follow up with further information. If you don't want to read the game, I can't help you.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

@awoo & suji; can you explain your PM read?

From my initial stance on PM, the below spoilered posts have reinforced my scum read. In post 819 and 823, PM's response to me is throwing shade at me trying to paint the Titus wagon as a bad wagon, and highlight the Norwegianboy wagon (same amount of votes, don't force people) as a viable alternative. Post 895 is basically PM saying they are okay with whatever and don't really have a stance (I'm fine with Titus if the majority want it), despite them asserting I am scum if Titus flips town.

Spoiler:

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

I get you were on Titus' wagon, but are you sure they should directly ignore NorwegianboyEE in this case? He's also near the majority number, so saying this makes it seem like you're tunneling onto Titus, despite (at the time until Kop's vote) NorwegianboyEE having the same amount of votes as Titus.

I'm still here, but nothing much has changed so I don't have much to say. GuiltyLion or pisskop should vote Titus so we can proceed.

I get you were on Titus' wagon, but are you sure they should directly ignore NorwegianboyEE in this case? He's also near the majority number, so saying this makes it seem like you're tunneling onto Titus, despite (at the time until Kop's vote) NorwegianboyEE having the same amount of votes as Titus.

I don't understand the intent of this post. I very obviously have Titus as a scum read and NoregianboyEE as a null read. Why would I ask to have my null read lynched over my scum read?

The idea is that you're not giving them a choice. If they scum read Norwegian, let them scum read Norwegian. Saying to vote Titus gives them that lack of choice, crucial in allowing a Town to be that, a town. Maybe they have something that you weren't aware of, and you're tunneling them into a particular lynch.

If they want to vote for Titus, then I'm fine with it, but my heart is saying NorwegianboyEE is scum, so that's where I'll stick.

I'm willing to ask a similar thing. If Titus flips town, then Suji is a likely suspect. If he flips Mafia, then, I don't know what I'll do. I don't think he'll flip Mafia given the circumstances of this day, but if he does, then I'll try to keep an open mind.

I still think Norwegian was the better lynch of the three, but again, I'm fine with a Titus lynch if that's what the majority wants to do.

Ah here it is.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Also to confirm.
You saying that my slot voting you means me and PM are buddies?

[Sujimichi]

Also to confirm.
You saying that my slot voting you means me and PM are buddies?

Absolutely not. I did not think that with Creature's initial vote. See my post above. I think that now because "You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point."

I find it doubtful you didn't know the leading wagons at the time as well as that you only chose me (counterwagon to leading wagon at the time) and one other player to ISO based on one post from Titus. It feels engineered with a purpose.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

BTW I’ve played so many mafia games I know how Mafia can play and cannot play.
For your PM is scum. I’ll have to argue that Town can easily believe others are scum/town.
I don’t believe his post was alignment indicative, maybe the part where he was saying that “I don’t think he’ll flip Mafia but if he dose” sometimes comes from scum but not always.
This could be a miss Lynch.
Are you voting him because of him no wanting to vote Scum?
Sometimes people don’t Lynch the right person and sometimes they do.
They don’t know who Scum is.
Also as mafia I tend to buss, which makes me think that you believe that bussing him meant you could get a couple of miss lynchs off. But not on my watch kiddo.
I believe you to flip Mafia, and if my assumptions are accurate. Chances are the last scum didn’t vote for Titus.
Meaning we can confirm Town everyone on that wagon.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Also to confirm.
You saying that my slot voting you means me and PM are buddies?

Absolutely not. I did not think that with Creature's initial vote. See my post above. I think that now because "You did not come to a conclusion based on the information, rather you looked for information and reasoning to support a pre-determined conclusion. There is a high likelihood that you and PM are partners at this point."

I find it doubtful you didn't know the leading wagons at the time as well as that you only chose me (counterwagon to leading wagon at the time) and one other player to ISO based on one post from Titus. It feels engineered with a purpose.

I decided to ISO him then look at the wagon after I narrowed down Mafia and noticed that the one I suspected was on the wagon.
So because someone changes their vote to you they are auto suspect for Mafia team with PM? Despite us not even knowing if PM will actually flip Mafia or not.
Chances are at this point Mafia has a high chance to buss themselves to actually win the game.

[Sujimichi]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

Not a post.
But the fact you believe he did something that appeared scummy but with my experience is actually just Null.

[Sujimichi]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

Not a post.
But the fact you believe he did something that appeared scummy but with my experience is actually just Null.

Then you haven't actually read my reasoning. I'm not going to engage with you futher until others have had a chance to as I don't believe you are engaging to understand my alignment.

[Awoo]

Sometimes the best way to deal with the devil is just to laugh him off.

[TrueSoulEnergy]

Quick question before I engage further: Do you really think that I am scum reading PM for one post?

Not a post.
But the fact you believe he did something that appeared scummy but with my experience is actually just Null.

Then you haven't actually read my reasoning. I'm not going to engage with you futher until others have had a chance to as I don't believe you are engaging to understand my alignment.

I said previously:
I decided to ISO him then look at the wagon after I narrowed down Mafia and noticed that the one I suspected was on the wagon.

So because someone changes their vote to you they are auto suspect for Mafia team with PM? Despite us not even knowing if PM will actually flip Mafia or not.
Chances are at this point Mafia has a high chance to buss themselves to actually win the game.

I feel as if you are frozen and can’t respond the words I highlighted.

[Sujimichi]

So because someone changes their vote to you they are auto suspect for Mafia team with PM? Despite us not even knowing if PM will actually flip Mafia or not.

I've already answered this. Not knowing PMysterious' alignment as a certainty is why I am not pressing it.

Chances are at this point Mafia has a high chance to buss themselves to actually win the game.

You need to read how Day 1 and the Nomination 1 phases actually went. I will specifically note the parties chosen.

Note that neither of the above actually address my reasoning as to why I have a scum read on PMysterious or address the point that you are not actually trying to understand my alignment.

Ancillary point: You keep appealing to your experience, but as far as I can tell you have none.

[Sujimichi]

Sorry. I said I wasn't engaging further, but those points were not within the bounds of what I intended. I am done now.

[Joey_]

VOTE: Awoo

Your whole game is basically posturizing

[Joey_]

Creature’s replace-in is making wild leaps of logic with the dichotomy joey/suji. While I disagree with the premise,
the way he’s presenting it seems genuine-looking enough.

Suji’s answers has been okay, I need to reread the game

[Joey_]

36 is a joke vote, still in rvs. People that seem to be wagoning him based on that dont should reconsider.

Yeah no.

I think you're town but you give scum far too much credit. 36 is pretty scummy. I'd be pretty fucking surprised if mutant flipped town.

Suji’s slot looks obvious town with this classic distance-half-shade, classic TvsS

[Joey_]

Like the purpose of that Titus post is to;

Discredit Dong’s take on mutant
Call Dong town so she probably be more receptive to the wagon Titus is pushing and maybe vote mutant with her
Increase the likelihood of the mutant lynch

You don’t really need to convince your scumbuddies - while buying their good sides with a tr

[Joey_]

The exact point of RVS is to use exaggerated cases to push and use the content generated to make real cases. So why isnt that happening right here? Is it because youre too busy trying to defend mutant? is it because you stepped up to the plate to stifle conversation and take away that from everyone else?

What are you talking about? I dont scumread mutant over it, so im asking you to clarify. Since you are so stubbornly not doing that, i am defending him, yes.
I'll listen to your point of view if you explain it, right now all i can gather from this is that you scumread mutant over a rvs vote, if you want me to take your side i will, provided you actually convince me on that.

I'm not sure whether dong is trying to portray himself as reasonable here or if he really is uncertain. It's not about being correct, even though I think we are. It's about using pressure to sort people and get wagons going.

Right now, there's too much emphasis on who is wrong rather than. Let's try this.

Dong’s answer + Titus is also pretty TvsS; Titus decides to talk in 3rd person because she don’t want to escalade the confrontation, but she does so while shading Dong & giving herself an out if she eventually ends up needing to push/scumread Dong

Its pretty blatant when you know Titus alignement

[Joey_]

I posted 83 in an attempt to pressure mutant from a position i felt comfortable in, because i realized that the position pk is taking is so ludicrous that i figured he was pressuring for pressures sake, yet i didnt want to jump in just because. Thats why i dont understand he is opposing me so much here.

That's because mutant's acts are scummy. It's not just pressure for pressure's sake. Even if I am reading it wrong, standing and attacking before any wagon gets three votes stops town from coalescing.

Unless you got a mod guilty, you shouldn't do that but RVS elsewhere instead.

Titus tries to convince Dong w/ “what should a good townie should do” which is pretty non confrontational and scum would only think about using this angle to convince mind you.

She also used the same angle when she both discrediting my read “mutants read is too abysmal to come from scum”, discrediting my slot “is joey derp town or scum? I am on med so its foggy” while no going against me head on. She also, again, gives herself an out to call me scum down the road

[Joey_]

Page 7; I am less certain on creature being town
Awoo uncertain,
Suji pretty evidently town,
nEE/pk looks town

PM/creature/correspondance slot ??

[Joey_]

VOTE: creature slot