Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[Vorkuta]

@Vork A vote claiming to be for pressure actually carries very little to no pressure. Specially when compared to a serious vote on a wagon.

I disagree because now January has the knowledge that I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a tiny screw up, and it's quite implicit that a wrong step might turn my vote into a proper "I think you're scum" vote

[ceejayvinoya]

@CeeJay, can you elaborate on your reasons for your Zenith vote for posterity?

Sure.

Zenith's rvs vote earlier was very sketchy and the way he defended it didn't ring true to me.

Plus his apparent failure of comprehending suspicious' posts, which he misread.

Though probably unintentionally, since he is consistently still going against suspicious here apparently, and no one seems to be against voting Zenith.

I think I'm going to back off of him for now. Am having doubts that he is scum.

UNVOTE:

[january]

-your point being?
A vote on you is still pressure, regardless of the pretext under which I justify it
if others join then others join. If not then....
-I can't be bothered to comb through your ISO, find a quote which pings you as vulnerable for me, and proceed to have a back-and-forth. Suffice to say your opening (hi, I'm new, please be nice) and the next few afterwards left that impression on me and that's it.

well it just seemed to me like it was a vote with no real purpose to me

sad you don’t want to have a back and forth, that’s usually the easiest way for me to develop reads on other people by forcing them to interact with me until i townread them or decide i can’t townread them

[january]

@GeorgeBailey i think my wording was a little unclear but I meant to ask why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

also can u answer this part too

Also, you must have seen Fancy’s post before yours since it seems like you get notified before submitting if there’s any new messages. Why not change your message or your approach after Fancy had unvoted?
-Knowing that Fancy unvoted, why not at least edit the explanation a little bit, because it’s not like we were at L-1 anymore when you posted

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.07

---

Lynching

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Zenith

(3): Jamelia, tictac, Suspicious

Suspicious

(1): Zenith

january

(1): Vorkuta

Jamelia

(1): FancyPants

Not Voting

(3): january, ceejayvinoya, GeorgeBailey

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-26 08:30:00).

Mod notes:

FancyPants is V/LA until Monday[/area]

[GeorgeBailey]

why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question. I don't want people being held at L-1 without people noticing. I don't want an early mislynch, and I don't want people to be voted out early even if they're a power role. Did I insinuate that in some of my earlier posts?

Also, you must have seen Fancy’s post before yours since it seems like you get notified before submitting if there’s any new messages. Why not change your message or your approach after Fancy had unvoted?
-Knowing that Fancy unvoted, why not at least edit the explanation a little bit, because it’s not like we were at L-1 anymore when you posted

I was rushing to get the post out and I didn't really read it. I didn't think a follow up was required either. It was a simple move to prevent something that I don't think anyone wanted. Again lmao, 1 minute apart.

[tictac]

Subject: Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

So I read through everything and tried analyzing as much as possible. My brain actually hurts from trying to form opinion's of scuminess so, yeah. LOL

I agree with the opinion that Leucostictie is pretty neutral, but I wouldn't agree that he is auto-town or whatever. I appreciate the indepth analysis but I found at times the wording of how townspeople should act to be almost a: "I think this is the way Town in this game should play!" versus "I am town, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Town played this way".

I personally don't blame anyone for voting for someone based on inactivity, including Dyrenz' back on Page 2. He hasn't been on since I've started talking and stuff. I think that voting for someone based on inactivity when I personally haven't seen any overt scuminess makes sense?

That's all I really have right now. This is fun! LOL

^This person here is town!Jamelia. That was post #69
He has opinions and he shares them freely.
He says 'LOL' alot because he is having fun analyzing a game with friends.
He is big into the communal aspect of problemsolving, and correcting each others mistakes. That's why I tried to direct him towards january, because I saw that same attitude in jan. Figured there would be common ground and an easy townread there, but no.
And yeah, this person did have a town quickhammer another town in his first game. He would be very wary of L-1. I believe this person would have unvoted Zen before CJ did, regardless of what his read on Zen was, since there was still time left until deadline.

I strongly believe that the person posting in this thread is not town!Jamelia.
There is not a single 'LOL' in his ISO.

@Jamelia: If I am wrong about something here, please tell me why.
@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

VOTE: Jamelia

[tictac]

why would you want to leave it at L-1 if people didn’t notice? if that is the question that you’re answering... why would you want an early mislynch on someone who hasn’t even spoken yet... what if they were a power role

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question. I don't want people being held at L-1 without people noticing. I don't want an early mislynch, and I don't want people to be voted out early even if they're a power role. Did I insinuate that in some of my earlier posts?

Anyways,

the reason I didn't do an immediate unvot

e, is because I

don't think the others realized

we were putting

Suspicious

at L-1/L-2.

@GeorgeBailey I was pretty sure from everything else you said that you had unvoted because it was too close to lynch. I’m curious what you expected from leaving it at L-1 if you believed nobody noticed

A mislynch simply. Could have been the guy you replaced, could have been another newbie (would most likely be another newbie).

tbh this is bizarre as both align.

[tictac]

Why the townlean on Vork?

Votes likes 46. There's obviously no intent to lynch, and it's purely to wake up stagnant players. I feel like scum would want the opposite.

another ping on informed POW. (assuming benign intent without reason)
What Vork actually said was basically: "go back to sleep ya lurker. ya posting too much."
If ya read that post in context it comes right after CJ posted, so the lurker being already awake, no reason to be trying to wake him up.

[tictac]

Not intended recipient but I'm about to hit 5000 shitposts worth of mafia

*ahem*
They could be offsite gods and it would be suboptimal for them to share such info so don't get your hopes up.

I'll answer this too, since Zen not gonna answer my question.
It's only suboptimal if they scum, so claiming offsite exp in yer first game is +town
Bailey is a special case since not a first-timer onsite, so has checkable meta. I would not have bought him claiming no offsite exp. I don't think a totally new player makes a roleplay account. I tried to get him to commit to a lie, but it didn't work.
I might have bought Zens play from a vet making a gambit. As newb it's very scummy.
Since he didn't answer I'll assume the worst possible answer.
I do think his activity while on L-1 is mildly town indic, if it's not exactly [zen,sus] tho.

In the future if comments on my questions could wait until after I have received answers, that would be great. I don't think it caused any damage this time tho.
Also when I specifically address questions to specific players(@someone) I have reasons to want answers specifically from those players.
good on ya about yer exp. u can safely assume that if something is knowable by clicking a link it's not news tho.

[tictac]

I think I'm at

{Sus, GB, FP}
{January, CJ}
{Zenith. Jam}
{tictac}

Also guys- this "he put the guy to L-1" discussion has been spanning on for 10 pages so....

why is GB town?
is the scumread on me something other than u disagree w me on what info is relevant?

[Suspicious]

@Zenith since you insist on being difficult, start here:

1. w/r/t #41, what is your opinion on the early vote composition? You seem to imply the vote was stacked.
2. w/r/t #128, what are your reads?
3. #127 and #131 directly refute the claims you made earlier against me and demonstrate how you misrepresented my words. You then lean on making stronger language/baseless claims to fit your chosen narrative.
4. w/r/t #138, you had opening scum reads on Bailey and Fancy. You have never explained this or returned to them in any manner. Do these reads still hold, and why make them in the first place?
5. #177 clarified my stance on you again and your shifting re: the L-1 vote. There has been enough talk about that already and it's not worth harping on anymore; as it stands, you went from L-1 = okay to L-1 only okay if warned, to L-1 is better than L-2 but L-2 was the intent, etc. It's like revisionist history.

[GeorgeBailey]

another ping on informed POW. (assuming benign intent without reason)
What Vork actually said was basically: "go back to sleep ya lurker. ya posting too much."

I read this

The more pages that pass without him making a first post, the townie he is.

More as "The more pages that pass by, the

less

townie he is". Which might be a misread, but I assume that's what he meant.

As for this

@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

I'm reading this more as newbie enthusiasm. That was Jam's first game on the board

ever

. Idk how much I can talk about the other games he's in (I think all of them are still ongoing) but I don't think this is indicative of his role.

Still Eyeing

Zenith

, I'll vote based off the answer of Suspicious's recent post. I think L-2 is a good position for him now.

[tictac]

I think L-2 is a good position for him now.

He's at L-3 atm.

[tictac]

More as "The more pages that pass by, the less townie he is". Which might be a misread, but I assume that's what he meant.

It's not.

[Jamelia]

Subject: Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

So I read through everything and tried analyzing as much as possible. My brain actually hurts from trying to form opinion's of scuminess so, yeah. LOL

I agree with the opinion that Leucostictie is pretty neutral, but I wouldn't agree that he is auto-town or whatever. I appreciate the indepth analysis but I found at times the wording of how townspeople should act to be almost a: "I think this is the way Town in this game should play!" versus "I am town, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Town played this way".

I personally don't blame anyone for voting for someone based on inactivity, including Dyrenz' back on Page 2. He hasn't been on since I've started talking and stuff. I think that voting for someone based on inactivity when I personally haven't seen any overt scuminess makes sense?

That's all I really have right now. This is fun! LOL

^This person here is town!Jamelia. That was post #69
He has opinions and he shares them freely.
He says 'LOL' alot because he is having fun analyzing a game with friends.
He is big into the communal aspect of problemsolving, and correcting each others mistakes. That's why I tried to direct him towards january, because I saw that same attitude in jan. Figured there would be common ground and an easy townread there, but no.
And yeah, this person did have a town quickhammer another town in his first game. He would be very wary of L-1. I believe this person would have unvoted Zen before CJ did, regardless of what his read on Zen was, since there was still time left until deadline.

I strongly believe that the person posting in this thread is not town!Jamelia.
There is not a single 'LOL' in his ISO.

@Jamelia: If I am wrong about something here, please tell me why.
@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

VOTE: Jamelia

I don’t think you’re wrong in analyzing that the way that I’m posting is different in this game than that game. That game was my first game EVER. I didn’t realize how serious the analysis was, and how far people go to figure out who is / isn’t scum.

If you think I’m scum because I haven’t said “LOL” yet then I probably should just give up now! My cover has been blown! Because I haven’t said LOL yet!

Listen to yourself. I’m not trying to be “communal” because I generally do not have a major opinion of who / who isn’t scum at the moment. I’ve been working and haven’t had much time to definitely sit down and be like “oh yes, this is scummy/ not scummy”.

By all means I encourage anyone who thinks that tictac’s logic on this makes sense to vote for me. Because of a meta read from my first game on the website.

[Jamelia]

As for not seeing something is on L-1.

I didn’t. I worked all last night and I didn’t realize we were on a L-1 on Zenith. That’s my bad.

UNVOTE: until I actually sit down and read everything analytically.

[Zenith]

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

[Zenith]

@Zenith since you insist on being difficult, start here:

1. w/r/t #41, what is your opinion on the early vote composition? You seem to imply the vote was stacked.
2. w/r/t #128, what are your reads?
3. #127 and #131 directly refute the claims you made earlier against me and demonstrate how you misrepresented my words. You then lean on making stronger language/baseless claims to fit your chosen narrative.
4. w/r/t #138, you had opening scum reads on Bailey and Fancy. You have never explained this or returned to them in any manner. Do these reads still hold, and why make them in the first place?
5. #177 clarified my stance on you again and your shifting re: the L-1 vote. There has been enough talk about that already and it's not worth harping on anymore; as it stands, you went from L-1 = okay to L-1 only okay if warned, to L-1 is better than L-2 but L-2 was the intent, etc. It's like revisionist history.

1. Maybe it means something and maybe it doesn't, but I don't plan to put anymore thought into it because I don't know. Maybe it will be worth coming back to after a flip, but for now I'm moving on.

2. I give my reads as I play. Don't expect a neat itemized list from me because I'm not a fan.

3. They don't refute my claim and I didn't misrepresent you. You said what you said:

Spoiler: #41

woah woah woah, I believe that takes him to

L-1.

Scary place to be.

I'm gonna unvote to prevent a hammer.

UNVOTE: Suspicious

I believe he's at

L-2

now

What's wrong with an early L-1?
If scum were on the wagon, would they be more likely to stay there? Or would they be more likely to unvote for potential town points?

FOS

@ Fancy and GeorgeBailey.

In the heat of an early game, if no one is paying close attention, a careless vote/vote for fun can suddenly turn into a majority vote and an immediate mislynch. Not very likely, but not something that should be a threat on the first page of a game. Scum can either sit here or back off; are you implying the vote was scum stacked here?

I voted because that's literally the only way to make progress @D1.

Jokes aside, Sus's reaction to said wagon and the follow up interrogation gets him townpoints from me.
But like... come on guys, show a tiny bit of common sense with these questions

What specifically about his reaction makes you give him town points?

If suspicious is scum, I could see him as an easy early bus for easy distance. But the wagon moved pretty fast, so perhaps his partner got scared and backed off?

Bussing this early makes no sense; a flip wouldn't give any credibility or implicate anyone. There's no benefit for that play, and realistically a lynch on page 1 is highly unlikely; I don't think a strategy would hinge on that.

And I already responded with #129:

In the first quote you say that the quicklynch is "not very likely" while also expressing concern over the possibility. In the second quote the language changes to "highly unlikely" with reasoning for why it wouldn't happen.

4. I dunno. Still keeping an eye on them, but I'm tired of thinking about the RVS.

5. Again: L-1 is ok, ppl should notify when placing someone at L-1, L-1 is better than L-2 if pressure is the goal, and I did intend to put you at L-2. All of this is true and there is no revision involved.

I'm moving on now. You can keep repeating yourself if you want, but I'll probably ignore it if you do. This back and forth isn't productive. It's a bunch of repetitive crud clogging the thread that I doubt anyone wants to keep reading through, and is likely anti-town at best.

[Jamelia]

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Literally LOL at this.

[Zenith]

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Literally LOL at this.

Too much WIFOM here..

@tictac What do you think? Which glass would you drink from here?

[Suspicious]

And @Zenith, what was the purpose of #140?

[Zenith]

And @Zenith, what was the purpose of #140?

Lol, this coming from the guy who kept telling me to re-read his ISO.
Guess you haven't been paying attention, because I already answered this in #161.

[Jamelia]

If you would quit being dodgy by hiding behind your ISO, maybe we could get somewhere.

I could turn it around on you and tell you to read my ISO for your answers. I won't, but maybe this will help you see how ridiculous you are being?

These two quotes are ridiculously transparent and unnerving compared to the context of what people were asking of Zenith. I compare this to myself, where I was answering the same questions and people wanting to dig for more information, Zenith is just refusing to answer questions and using personal attacks. I still have yet to figure out exactly why if they are town, that they would be this defensive over this especially when they "didn't mean to put Suspicious on L-1" (I'll come back to that below).

Subject: Newbie 1953 | Zooborns IV | Game Over

So I read through everything and tried analyzing as much as possible. My brain actually hurts from trying to form opinion's of scuminess so, yeah. LOL

I agree with the opinion that Leucostictie is pretty neutral, but I wouldn't agree that he is auto-town or whatever. I appreciate the indepth analysis but I found at times the wording of how townspeople should act to be almost a: "I think this is the way Town in this game should play!" versus "I am town, but I wouldn't be surprised if other Town played this way".

I personally don't blame anyone for voting for someone based on inactivity, including Dyrenz' back on Page 2. He hasn't been on since I've started talking and stuff. I think that voting for someone based on inactivity when I personally haven't seen any overt scuminess makes sense?

That's all I really have right now. This is fun! LOL

^This person here is town!Jamelia. That was post #69
He has opinions and he shares them freely.
He says 'LOL' alot because he is having fun analyzing a game with friends.
He is big into the communal aspect of problemsolving, and correcting each others mistakes. That's why I tried to direct him towards january, because I saw that same attitude in jan. Figured there would be common ground and an easy townread there, but no.
And yeah, this person did have a town quickhammer another town in his first game. He would be very wary of L-1. I believe this person would have unvoted Zen before CJ did, regardless of what his read on Zen was, since there was still time left until deadline.

I strongly believe that the person posting in this thread is not town!Jamelia.
There is not a single 'LOL' in his ISO.

@Jamelia: If I am wrong about something here, please tell me why.
@Others: I think this is the first time Jam randed scum. I'd like to lynch him gently if we can. I recognize that this is a meta-read and as such might not be convincing for all. I encourage everyone to take a peek at Jam-iso in that game, and then tell me if ya think that this is the same person at all.

VOTE: Jamelia

Now that I'm on my computer I can properly dissect and defend myself here. From my experience I believe scum-reading someone based on a meta from 1 game (can't talk about the current one) is very dangerous. I think scum-reading anyone based on their meta from this website is also dangerous. I take into consideration what is happening in this game, and not the history of others. If you're going to lynch me because my behavior on this website is different than from when I first joined, then I probably shouldn't have tried playing another game at all.

Am liking the recent content from tictac. Think I'll sheep for now and see where this goes.

VOTE: Jamelia
L-2

Liking someone's content doesn't mean you have to align your vote with them. After battling Suspicion for a good 5-6 pages now, I am pretty shocked you're voting for me here. In your words, can I ask why you think I am your current scumlead?

According to Plotinus on page 1: "Mafia are able to communicate in their Private Topic at all times"

Uh what was this for?

Nothing in Zeniths posts even hinted at L-1 possibly being a mistake.
You jumping to that conclusion looks like ya assumed benign intent because of informed POW or unreasoned defence because he is your buddy.

However

in his next post zen changes his stance and didn't intend to put sus at L-1 but at L-2 (which ya said would be reasonable),like ya gave him an out he didn't think of himself. I think this is a mild point against you guys having

daytalk

.

I didn't change my stance btw. I meant to put him at L-2. If he had already been at L-2 before I had started writing my post then I would have meant to put him at L-1, though I would have clearly marked him as L-1 with the warning to declare intent and give a chance for dialog before actually hammering. Unlike some people, I'm not afraid to put an RVS at L-1 if done properly. (With the disclaimer.) I actually think L-1 is mostly better than L-2.

You would have known you were putting Suspicion on L-1 because you would have gotten a notification showing the previous vote for Suspicion, before you were able to post. So you either ignored that and posted, or you did know you were putting Suspicion into L-1.

[Jamelia]

Also: VOTE: Zenith

L-2.