Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Something_Smart]

This isn't an accurate statement given you don't know the goals of all of the players when picking their numbers.

All else being equal it's better to be higher because you put a known alignment over a bunch of unknown alignments. The only time you'd want to be low is if you thought you were significantly worse than average at playing as a PR, so by necessity, only a few players can be justified in believing this.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

[Sujimichi]

This isn't an accurate statement given you don't know the goals of all of the players when picking their numbers.

All else being equal it's better to be higher because you put a known alignment over a bunch of unknown alignments. The only time you'd want to be low is if you thought you were significantly worse than average at playing as a PR, so by necessity, only a few players can be justified in believing this.

I'm glad that you understand that there are alternatives.

[skitter30]

I think Kerset is town for a really dumb reason.

do tell

100

yeah i saw that later
i've had one of those really ~exhausting~ days and i'm not sure i've actually processed what youv'e said there so this is a note for me to come back and look at it later

Unless you were trying to reaction test him in some way, i'm not sure what you were going for there

It was actually to see how the wagon built as he was the largest (though not by a large amount, which was part of the draw) at the time. That ultimately did not work out, so I don't mind disclosing at this point.

yeah this is kinda why i read it as oppurtunistic, and why it kinda fit that scumtell i was talking about early
not sure if scum are so forthright about admitting their reasoning like this tho ^

I'm not sure why this would be a scumtell.

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

[Sujimichi]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

[skitter30]

really? i feel like it's ridiculously suboptimal as scum

The advantage from WIFOM is almost tautologically proportional to the harm it causes them.

i think this depends on the scumteam/player and that most people wouldn't do this

the game has started to move out of rvs

Can you clarify how you define this?

when people stop just making greetings and random votes based on things like username, and when discussion starts happening

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

ehhhhhh this is maybe a fair point
you can be town for now

[Sujimichi]

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

Voting on the leading wagon in order to make it larger is an "empty vote that doesn't make waves?"

[skitter30]

I think you are projecting your observation of the gamestate to others rather than understanding their own. If someone comes into a game with content that they were not a part of, nor they have made themselves, why are they assumed to have to delve straight into said content rather than participate in a manner that allows them to acclimate to the game.

I mean she said it was due to experience, not deduction, so I don't really see how her opinion of the gamestate affects that.

????

[Something_Smart]

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

I think it's pretty objective? The game's out of RVS when people start making votes that aren't jokes and giving actual reads.

[skitter30]

scum dont' like to make waves, it's easier for them to make a empty vote on an already-existing wagon than to contribute

Voting on the leading wagon in order to make it larger is an "empty vote that doesn't make waves?"

it depends what stage the wagon is, but yeah sliding in the ~third or fourth vote doesn't tend to seem conspicuous (it's just an rvs wagon!) but they've gotten their feet wet, and it has the added bonus of building a wagon (that if they're lucky might get dangerously close to lynch)

but i don't think that scum admit 'hi i deliberately voted the largest wagon to make it larger' which is why i gave you townpoints for it

[Sujimichi]

I'm not sure I understand. Her definition of RVS is based on her own experiences, true. She is projecting that to others when she states that "we are out of RVS" when that may not be true to others.

I think it's pretty objective? The game's out of RVS when people start making votes that aren't jokes and giving actual reads.

Admittedly, I don't speak with authority here, but I disagree. RVS may be over for the people who made the votes that aren't jokes or gave actual reads, but that is not true for the rest of the players who are still trying to come to their own understanding of the gamestate and may take their own actions to do so.

[Sujimichi]

it depends what stage the wagon is, but yeah sliding in the ~third or fourth vote doesn't tend to seem conspicuous (it's just an rvs wagon!) but they've gotten their feet wet, and it has the added bonus of building a wagon (that if they're lucky might get dangerously close to lynch)

This is a fair point.

[nomnomnom]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

[nomnomnom]

I would lie if his 9|1 choice wasn't in the equation though.

[Something_Smart]

the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly"

Nice to meet you, I'm Something_Smart and this is how I operate.

[Something_Smart]

I would lie if his 9|1 choice wasn't in the equation though.

I picked 9/1 for the simple reason of looking at the most recent PYP games and seeing 9 as the lowest number frequently not picked. As for the 1, well, I've already explained that.

[nomnomnom]

Also to note that S_S tends to be very game spec oriented in a lot of his scum games, and that's my observation. In a marathon game I played with him he used setup spec to justify a completely insane event in order to clear himself and his partner from suspicion by claiming they were both doctors protecting each other. In Guns and Roses 2 his game contribution boiled down to extreme pessimism regarding the game because setup spec and making the worst town move which would be voting me.

In fact the only game he hasn't done that in was the Undertale large theme I played with him, and in there he was really "hey guys take it easy I know I will " and did not contribute one iota to discussions, only showed up once or twice to say hi. So there's that to consider, but that's obviously my limited experience with him.

[skitter30]

Skit reads fairly town here, in my opinion.

To answer both Aaron and Skit, no I don't think S_S was obvious scum, but I had a bad feeling regarding his posts concerning setup spec. I'm not sure "the posts were negative and shooting down theories constantly" makes sense but that's probably how I'd put into words. As scum I do that fairly often, I tend to get angry really fast, try to shut down setup theories or at least approach them with a very negative mind ("It's that's true then why did you do this? You must be scum!"). That's what I did in Cats with Nero Cain regarding his night actions and his viability as a town!rolecop if you remember Skitter. I get the same vibe from S_S, so I feel pressure is deserved there.

I feel buddied

[Something_Smart]

Also to note that S_S tends to be very game spec oriented in a lot of his scum games, and that's my observation. In a marathon game I played with him he used setup spec to justify a completely insane event in order to clear himself and his partner from suspicion by claiming they were both doctors protecting each other. In Guns and Roses 2 his game contribution boiled down to extreme pessimism regarding the game because setup spec and making the worst town move which would be voting me.

In fact the only game he hasn't done that in was the Undertale large theme I played with him, and in there he was really "hey guys take it easy I know I will " and did not contribute one iota to discussions, only showed up once or twice to say hi. So there's that to consider, but that's obviously my limited experience with him.

That is much more setup dependent than alignment dependent. I talk about the setup way more in open games than closed ones.

[nomnomnom]

I guess that's fair.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Flubber
Going back on my previous read.

[Flubbernugget]

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

And this is a convenient read for right this moment.

Added to scum list.

What's wrong with light reads atm?

[Flubbernugget]

Hence my unvote

What's the problem here?

Noting that i dont find your thought process particularly believable

You feel ~pricklier~ than normal

No points for guessing why

[Flubbernugget]

Don't really understand the scumreads on SS honestly. I agree that there are better things we could be doing right now than setup spec, but I don't think SS had any malicious intent in doing that.

My big concern is that in the absence of setup spec, something smart has a lot less commentary. Hopefully that's just an irl thing