Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[nomnomnom]

Kerset has really bad arguments but the approach they bring to the game feels towny.

Could you please explain that?

[Luca Blight]

The only thing that seemed townie about Kerset was their very first post. Everything regarding actual gameplay has been underwhelming, but there’s so many dubious slots in this game that I’m reluctant to throw my hat into that ring right now.

It’s good to see Nom getting more involved but I’m still not feeling those townie vibes, I can’t quite put my finger on it.

[Luca Blight]

I agree with what Skitter has to say about rb and his questions struck me as manipulative also, but I also agree with Nom that Kerset comes off worse in that exchange.

[Luca Blight]

I wanted to townread Xayah after their decent looking opening posts, but i can see that slot being scum as well. Their activity level of popping up every now and then and then dropping back into background for a considerable time pings me. Their comments about SS seem disingenuous as well, as if she was testing the water for the wagon and then absolving herself of any blame/responsibility for it by claiming she over-blew her read and is surprised others hard SR SS, which didn’t even happen. I don’t get her current stance of maintaining her Frost ‘push’. It feels like an easy way to not take a hard stance on current issues by sitting on an easy wagon.

[Sirfetchd]

Can we please get some serious wagons going. I want tipping points and momentum shifts to analyse. The past few pages have been nothing but drivel.

I would appreciate everyone making votes, INCLUDING SS because fuck not voting until you have a concrete read.

[Something_Smart]

Sure thing!

VOTE: Something_Smart

[Sirfetchd]

I'll have something more substantial when there's actually something I can bite in to.

PEDIT: not funny, you're lucky I'm not one of those people that immediately equates anti-town as scum.

[nomnomnom]

I would appreciate everyone making votes, INCLUDING SS because fuck not voting until you have a concrete read.

I don't see why that bothers you this much, care to elaborate?

[Luca Blight]

Fetchd, why have you stopped pushing me since I convinced you I’m scum?

[Something_Smart]

But you do equate different as anti-town, and that's almost as bad.

[Sirfetchd]

It may be because I'm an older gen player, but the crux of a lot of my scum reading is looking at wagon compositions and how people react to pressure and people's reluctance or eagerness to join specific wagons. It results in a lot of wealth of information later down the track.

Normally I'm fine to just let it happen naturally but there's no-one I can day 1 tunnel at the moment so my usual early game is out the window.

@nom

[Sirfetchd]

Fetchd, why have you stopped pushing me since I convinced you I’m scum?

Half the game is convincing others. Don't have any nails for a coffin at the moment.

[Sirfetchd]

But you do equate different as anti-town, and that's almost as bad.

Different and anti-town are not the same.

You are both. I've also played with you before and I am fairly sure we've butted heads then too. I would appreciate that if you are a member of the town, that you do what you can to help your other townsfolk. Because this is a team game and as much I would love to win the game myself, I kinda need help from everyone else, for my own reading sake.

Not helping your townmates is anti-town. Having a different approach is, well, different, but acceptable.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, I've been playing here for close to four years. Do you not think that I'm doing what I am because I believe it helps the town?

[Something_Smart]

Voting is not objectively pro-town. It may help people like you form STRONGER reads, but they are not necessarily BETTER reads. Given that my play heavily de-emphasizes finding scum early, I'd either be voting on bullshit gut feelings or picking names out of a hat of my nullreads. I don't really see how doing either of those helps you read anyone better.

[Sirfetchd]

I mean, I've been playing here for close to four years. Do you not think that I'm doing what I am because I believe it helps the town?

The point I am trying to make is that, you work with the team you have. I, presumably, have you as a teammate. So we need to work together. I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me. You are welcome to ask me for things too. That is how this works.

It may help some towns, but it doesn't help THIS game's town.

[Sujimichi]

It may be because I'm an older gen player, but the crux of a lot of my scum reading is looking at wagon compositions and how people react to pressure and people's reluctance or eagerness to join specific wagons. It results in a lot of wealth of information later down the track.

Are you experienced on this site?

[Sirfetchd]

Voting is not objectively pro-town. It may help people like you form STRONGER reads, but they are not necessarily BETTER reads. Given that my play heavily de-emphasizes finding scum early, I'd either be voting on bullshit gut feelings or picking names out of a hat of my nullreads. I don't really see how doing either of those helps you read anyone better.

It's not entirely about your reads either. Everyone revolves around everyone else. Your actions may help me get better reads on someone else based on their actions in response.

You obviously get the concept, so I don't see the harm in you taking part. You also aren't the only person not voting, I only called you out because you already said you wouldn't.

[Luca Blight]

Fetchd, thoughts on rb v Kerset?

[Something_Smart]

I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me.

Okay, that's reasonable. What method would you like me to use for determining who I vote?

[Sujimichi]

I have a townread on Luca Blight, Something_Smart, and rb. Xayah, Wooper, and Billy are in my scum pool. Townlean on skitter30. I am now caught up.

VOTE: Billy

[Sirfetchd]

I am asking for you to make some sort of vote or scum call to help me.

Okay, that's reasonable. What method would you like me to use for determining who I vote?

Look at your null reads with votes on them. Pick one that has some amount of potential scum lean, and vote them.

[Sirfetchd]

Fetchd, thoughts on rb v Kerset?

Not really. Rb felt fine on entrance. Kerset has felt like mostly noise.

[Xayah]

Sure nom here:

I don't like this VC. It seems that we are clueless.

On a bit of reflection, why does scum make a statement like this? They'd want us to stay clueless and have votes like this. The way Kerset presents there game seems like they'd want this as well and wouldn't talk about this for simple town points.

Wooper you can do better then that.

The cocky attitude and fowardness is shown in most posting

Glancing through the thread I don’t feel great about Skitter either. I think frost is Town atm. Flubber seems Town as well. Null on everyone else atm.

I am suprised that someone as active as skitter skipped 144.

The only real bad post/bad argument factor I am talking about is small posts like this that don't help the overall thread. It's just useless shade. The mindset Kerset is trying to read the game in is bad. Towny, but bad.

i don't feel any need to defend myself. the fact that you focus solely on the first part of my content where i simply say i'm backreading the game that took 4 days to finally open, which i forgot about in that time is much more relevant to me than any concern for your accusation.

you know why? because you didn't even attach a vote or even apply a scumread. you just said, "sure, you forgot" and left it at that

and now the only content you're providing is to _defend yourself_ where previously all you did was talk mechanics, and complain about the state of the town's game - with no effort to improve the state of the town.

Why did you assume that i disagree with anything else? You state that i provide no content. Were would you read that there was anything else that was bothering me?
Even if you somehow guessed that i disliked one of your opinions, why would i comment a statement, which is one sentence long? It was obvious that you only glanced on topic so far, because you gave no arguments to discuss about.

I won't vote people every single time i ask them a question.

you're more concerned about how you appear than in solving the game, it's obvious.

You beg Aaron and wooper to backup you with votes - you are the one concerned about your appearance. For what other reason would you need votes on me right now? Especially the one, which came out of sympathy. I am not on L-2, so all you can get here is good look.

VOTE: rb

This is very clear in this post with rb. They haven't played with him before so they don't know how rb acts. It's bold to just step up and try this if you're scum with rb town. I think this reaction was towny, but still once again in a bad direction

I agree with what Skitter has to say about rb and his questions struck me as manipulative also, but I also agree with Nom that Kerset comes off worse in that exchange.

Why? I think Kerset comes off much better than rb in this. You’re agreeing with a lot of stances but not giving much information yourself. Anyone can call x town or y scum. Give some reasoning so we can dig our teeth into it.

I wanted to townread Xayah after their decent looking opening posts, but i can see that slot being scum as well. Their activity level of popping up every now and then and then dropping back into background for a considerable time pings me. Their comments about SS seem disingenuous as well, as if she was testing the water for the wagon and then absolving herself of any blame/responsibility for it by claiming she over-blew her read and is surprised others hard SR SS, which didn’t even happen. I don’t get her current stance of maintaining her Frost ‘push’. It feels like an easy way to not take a hard stance on current issues by sitting on an easy wagon.

See, stuff like this is better. I suppose I’ll defend myself a bit while I’m here. A) My activity level has and never will be a tell in any game of mafia. When I post and when I don’t post is just based on the playerlist my mood and if I’m tired. I’m not gonna scumread you for it cause you obviously don’t know this.
B) I thought I already told you my read on SS was overblown. That means I never thought he was obvious scum in the first place. Yes, I thought his posts were somewhat scummy but not to the extent that I posted or tried to show. I wanted to force that on a player I’ve played with before so we could get off the mech talk. I wanted to move the game along and I damn sure did that.
C) Easy? So just because I have a more confident scumread I’m playing easy? I threw my 2 cents in on the issue at hand. What do you expect town me to have here? A 4 page paragraph on why I think rb is x or kerset is y? I don’t get your viewpoint because ‘easy’ doesn’t exist in a game of mafia.

Voting is not objectively pro-town. It may help people like you form STRONGER reads, but they are not necessarily BETTER reads. Given that my play heavily de-emphasizes finding scum early, I'd either be voting on bullshit gut feelings or picking names out of a hat of my nullreads. I don't really see how doing either of those helps you read anyone better.

Ugh this is so LAMIST I don’t know what to do with it.

I have a townread on Luca Blight, Something_Smart, and rb. Xayah, Wooper, and Billy are in my scum pool. Townlean on skitter30. I am now caught up.

VOTE: Billy

Reasons people. They are wonderful things that I shouldn’t have to ask for.

[Sujimichi]

I've already said that I was busy this weekend. My catchup was earlier than stated. I will provide my full stance within the stated timeframe.