Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

Sure thing!

VOTE: Something_Smart

meh this is townie, i think

[nomnomnom]

apparently nom isn't reading it that way

I think she meant she didn't think it was scummy, and if she did mean that, she'd be correct.

Yeah I think that about sums it up. You see malice and manipulation, but I don't.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think it's manipulative? Like he's not trying to trick Aaron into weakening his Luca townread. He's straight up trying to break down the read. It's not as though Aaron might change his read without realizing why he had changed it or that rb was trying to get him to change it.

[Luca Blight]

I’m starting to feel a bit better about Nom after her recent posts. I’m really torn about rb v Kerset, both of them seem dodgy for different reasons. I don’t see their interactions being s v s but I think t v s is quite likely. As I said before about Kerset, his opening post felt really townie when he voted Frost with early conviction, but since then there has been nothing good. Rb’s entrance felt contrived and I agree that he’s been manipulative. His push on Kerset has certainly been his best work and I can see his angle. I think I’m leaning slightly towards Kerset being the more likely scum, everything considered.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Kerset

On a side note, I’m feeling more wary of Flubs now he’s taken a backseat since he was suspected. Hopefully he can get himself more involved again.

[nomnomnom]

I will now perform a magic trick.

Wooper wooper wooper

[Sirfetchd]

SIIIIIR-fetch'd!

[Luca Blight]

Fetchd, has your read on Frost changed at all after his recent posts?

You’re calling for meaningful wagons, but are not making any meaningful contributions yourself.

[Sirfetchd]

Short answer: no

Long answer: I never really had a read on Aaron but it was null enough to do a bit of a vote, but true momentum moved since then, so I am actively looking for somewhere to shove my vote.

And yeah I'll pay that as true. But as I mentioned I'm in a bit of a not getting much from face value reading of the thread so that's why I am trying to fix it.

[Luca Blight]

I’m still confused about your read progression on me. You went from being convinced I was scum to seemingly brushing your read under the carpet and forgetting about it. Do you still scumread me, or are you no longer voting me because there isn’t enough interest in my wagon?

And what happened to you Skitter SR?

[Sirfetchd]

Still scum reading both of you. But willing to pursue other things. Real talk, I cbf doing the legwork to push for lynches atm, so I'd rather spur people to action than try and brute force day 1 on stuff that has mattered to me as opposed to others.

I really hate realists but you are refs top scum read and skitter is second. But that doesn't mean I need to force a Lynch on either of you today because 1. I could be wrong, and 2. There's another scum out there even if I'm right and I only have two reads I believe in, in any capacity.

[rb]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

[rb]

oh hi fetched hi hi

wanna talk to me? i like that you scumread luca when he seems really townread because all the reasons he's been townread don't add up to me

i just finished a 10 hour shift and i feel too tired to analyse things but pls cliffnote your reasons for thinking Luca is scum?

also do you think it's likely skitter would be scum with luca?

[rb]

@Aaron: how likely do you think it is that Luca is buddying you?

Why do you ask? Do you think that just because he's townreading me that means he buddying me? It's feels more like you're trying to buddy me right now which is weird given that one of the first things you did was join my wagon.

i voted the equal leading wagon i believed was most likely to flip scum upon entering the game

problem?

[rb]

id be willing to lynch SS just for that, but i think you're a better lynch (=

forgot to say: vote kerset with me then? =]

Yeah actually looking back I don't see how this is town motivated. How do we get from "Aaron is a good lynch right now" to "Aaron come vote Kerset with me?" It just feels disingenuous and like it's manipulating me into doing something that others might perceive as scummy.

VOTE: rb

why would others perceive you as scummy?

in fact, why so concerned about what others think of your alignment?

it's quite simple: i voted the wagon i believed most likely to flip scum, but then my kerset scumread outweighed this. as a result, i wanted to see if you'd vote my best scumread in the game

the real question is why you think it's weird that i would want more people to vote my strongest scumread

it's a thing i always am baffled by when people decide my play is 'scummy' because i like to have other people voting my best scumreads. your vote is the most important tool in the game, no?

[rb]

Both rb and Kerset are arguing in super bad faith here which is really throwing me for a loop.

how is my argument in bad faith?

kerset talked mechanics, then did nothing but make vague complaints about town sucking, with zero effort to do anything about it, and is now just OMGUS voting me

does that seem like a town-aligned progression of play to you?

[rb]

i'll reread it later

i think rb is being manipulative / buddying-y tho and would prefer that for now since i really don't have thoughts on kerset

can you please outline how you can simultaneously insist that you have not paid much attention to our interaction, but also be so resistant to any idea from other slots that have apparently paid attention to it: that kerset is not scum and yet i am likely to be?

nomnom brings up similar points to what i did?

are they also scummy?

line of thinking does not compute

[Luca Blight]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

How about you state your points against me instead of attempting to elicit reasons from others?

[rb]

rb does feel verbose but I need to think about that.

I think Kerset's end of the interaction was very odd for sure. I'll even go ahead and VOTE: Kerset. That iso is textbook pessimistic scum having a very low vote/fos ratio. I think the key to decoding rb is actually residing in Kerset's wall.

ok

i reread:

a) rb is verbose, sure, but that's not what i'm particularly taking issue with, it's that his posts are manipulative and seemed designed to 1. get aaron to doubt his townread of luca 2. buddy aaron

b) this is why i found rb to be scummy

c) i still don't particularly have thoguhts on kerset. i read their convo a few times and it just kinda ~is~

if you read my posts you'll see that i think luca is also a scumread of mine

So i questioned why aaron townreads him, because aaron said he has prior experience. that means i have two thoughts: how much experience, how relevant it is, and whether or not aaron realises that scum!luca would be aware of this and is likely to play in a way that would get a townread from aaron

these are the things i would expect town!aaron to consider, so when i ask aaron to outline these things, what im searching for is not to make aaron doubt his read: but for information that shows me that aaron himself is going through these processes.

questioning aaron's read is about me finding out aaron's alignment, not about me 'throwing shade' at luca

i have only one vote however, and it makes no real sense for me to simultaneously split my pressure across two slots. i can't realistically push for a kerset wagon as well as a luca wagon - but that doesn't mean i won't try to find out other people's alignments in the process

[rb]

hot take: luca is scum and kerset and I are both town

or more collaboratively: suppose i was wrong about kerset, and we were both town. how would the rest of you feel about Luca's angle on our slots?

How about you state your points against me instead of attempting to elicit reasons from others?

i think your play lacks direction, despite knowing that you're usually a capable and matter of fact player as town who states what they think and pushes in the direction they believe will hit scum.

it's possible that i'm overestimating your townplay, or that you just aren't really pinging heavily on a scumread yet and so aren't the town player i'm used to. nothing you've said really pings me as you being either alignment, which is why i said earlier "i hope Luca's scum because then this game would make a lot more sense"

it also confused me to see you, a player who's relatively familiar with my game to be ambivalent about my entrance. it's like you don't want to acknowledge anything about my play either way, which is not the kind of player i'm used to. all that said, there's feasible reasons you might not be playing the same way i remember your town game, and kerset is like a beacon of obvscum

[rb]

@Mod can we get a vote-count?

[rb]

all that said: i like that you still bring attention to flubber's play. it's something i noticed when i first started reading that i was curious about.

if you think flubber is more likely to flip scum than kerset, then i think you should vote and pressure there. i don't believe that it makes sense to have a binary choice of me/kerset. i don't want the game to revolve around me, but i've made my case for kerset. Wooper+nomnomnom are on board not just with the idea that kerset is scum, but also that i'm town.

[rb]

I don't think it's manipulative? Like he's not trying to trick Aaron into weakening his Luca townread. He's straight up trying to break down the read. It's not as though Aaron might change his read without realizing why he had changed it or that rb was trying to get him to change it.

how does outright asking Aaron to clarify the reasons for their townread of Luca equate to manipulative?

[rb]

i think it's funny that kerset complains about the town lacking direction and then votes the player giving it the most direction that it's had all game, purely because the direction is towards them

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Wooper]

I will now perform a magic trick.

Wooper wooper wooper

SIIIIIR-fetch'd!

summoning rituals are p dubious when I'm at work dear noms

[Luca Blight]

Rb, I’m not sure if you’re confusing me with someone else but I can only remember playing with you once before (where you were scum) and that was ages ago.

I feel like my play has had more direction that most so far this game. The fact of the matter is I’m really struggling for townreads and have a lot of minor scumreads, which explains why I’m not pushing heavily in any one direction as I’m still in the sorting stage. I don’t think today’s Lynch necessarily has to be you or Kerset, I just wanted to put my vote someone where is would be useful for the time being at least.

Regarding Flubs, once again he isn’t a massive scumread, hence why I’m not voting him. I liked his start and want him to remain involved in the game so I can read him better.