Newbie 1962 | (Game Over)

[eth0s]

Official Vote Count 1.14

Lynching

With 9 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Geyde

(1): Yodavader

Formerfish

(1): Chibiie

Radja

(1): Geyde

Chibiie

(1): Formerfish

Not Voting

(5): EspeciallyTheLies, Farren, TheGildedSun, faüstiv, Radja,

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-03 12:50:00).

Mod notes:

Deadline extended by 48 hours due to extremely high volume of replacements. This is the only extension Day 1 will receive.[/area]

[faüstiv]

nice to play with you again Geyde.

hope you're town.

[eth0s]

Deadline extended by 48 hours due to extremely high volume of replacements. This is the only extension Day 1 will receive.

[Formerfish]

Lets get a wagon going, choo choo mofos.

[Geyde]

Spoiler: Farren

It's called read progression, I commented organically as I read through the posts in order, thus my perspective changed, and I think uncertainty is fairly obvious for someone who has no idea what anyones roles are. It's not like we have had tons of content to get alignment reads from yet

First time I've ever seen timewarping compacted into a single post rather than spread out as individual responses.

I think I need to take a look at your past history, see if this is normal for you.

As far as the uncertainty goes - I expect uncertainty at this point. That's normal. What I'm wondering about is the shift.

18: "This is a

very scummy

response, town

wouldn't

be so worried of being voted as a townie being lynched gives reads of who was on their wagon and why, while scum are

much more

nervous about being lynched and this is

hyper

shown here."

(formatting added)

The underlines posts show a great deal of confidence in your statement. Overall tone feels like you're trying to convey this as a fact rather than as an opinion.

71 shows none of that - not even about TheGildedSun, despite post 18.

Uncertainty is to be expected at this point. What I'm trying to figure out is if I'm reading too much into what sounds like a tonal shift from confidence to uncertainty. I wouldn't think too much of it normally, but you did specifically call out nervousness about lynching as a scumtell - which tells me I need to be watching you for signs of nervousness, especially when people are voting for you.

That's something else that may get cleared up through some meta-research, though, so I'll tackle that later today.

I know its not going to be believed now as factually its after your post, but I wasnt sheeping in the slightest, I read #14 and was about to comment on it, but got distracted irl. I can see how my delayed irl response can look like sheeping but its not whether you want to believe that, its up to you im not bothered either way. I'm happy where my vote is atm, sure I can see how it may be newbtown, but it could also be newbscum being over defensive, having a inexperienced response does not mean that a person is instantly town. I have seen several times where people have been let off the hook for things they have said with it being put down to them being new to forum mafia, and therefore they are automatically newbtown.

With Gildedsun being voted No. 4 out of 5 votes before their #14 post, with all 5 being random to say "the random votes will only raise my suspicions of the offender" makes me think sure thats an inexperienced thing to say with minimal understanding of RVS but that doesnt mean that person is town in my eyes.

I felt like ETLs vote was a natural reaction in #16, not sure if too AI yet, will know more as i read through their 23 posts (over double the next player) could be LAMIST could just be eager to get the game going, ill find out as I read through.

#20 & #21 makes me think there is a big learning curve for Gilded in terms of how pressure works in order to obtain reads.

not too keen on ETLs #24 felt like a weak vote remove, could see them being a scum team (will note this for future reference).

In response to Farrens #29, I felt hyper was the best choice of word considering I had not seen someone react in such dismay over being voted before they had even posted.
I like you asking questions, but haven't seen any presentation of what you think of anyone. hmm..

Not sure what I think of the ETL v Fish interactions yet, could be TvT wish to evaluate better with more content.

Like Faustivs input so far, reads pretty townie so far.

I like #53 and agree with their spot, could be a good tell, hmm I'd say that my vote may be better placed here instead in that case.

VOTE: Formerfish

I'm confused.

You have: "I'm happy where my vote is atm", "not too keen on ETLs #24 felt like a weak vote remove, could see them being a scum team (will note this for future reference)."
You have "Not sure what I think of the ETL v Fish interactions yet, could be TvT wish to evaluate better with more content."
You just voted for Formerfish.

So you think ETL + GildedSun could both be scum; you think ETL + Fish could both be Town; and presumably you think Fish could be scum if you're voting for him.

Two 'could' statements and a vote with "may be better placed" so there's some uncertainty involved, but post 18 was a lot more confident. This post is all over the place. Why?

Is retracting a bad argument scummy, Town, or both? And why?

For me, it depends on how the retraction goes. A gradual progression after a discussion is more townie than an abrupt 180 turn in a very short time.

I'm going to have to go back through the ETL/Fish section to see how I really feel about that.

I think this is a good way to judge read progression - gradual progression is more Town than abrupt 180s here.

For bad arguments, though - it shouldn't take that long to clear up genuine mistakes of fact, semantic confusion, or missed possibilities. Semantic confusion is probably the toughest of the three, as sometimes it isn't obvious that's what's happening - but once it is obvious, it's as easy to fix as the others.

And yes, definitely an interesting start. Should mean a fun game coming up.

You shouldn't state that you want to answer something, but wait for someone else's answer before-hand... I mean... I wanna place a bet on this team, but will wait until they win.

Makes sense?

Disagree. The question was specifically about why Spartan unvoted. If Spartan's scum, me commenting in detail could make him change the answer he gives to sound better. If Spartan's Town and his answer happens to address the issue I'm thinking of *after* I comment, I'll suspect that he changed his answer based on my comments, which will devalue the answer.

By stating publicly that I want to comment, it helps maintain accountability on multiple levels. On my end, I want to make sure I don't forget about it, and commenting in the thread increases the likelihood that someone else will notice and inquire if I do. On Spartan's end, it increases the likelihood that he will answer - either by him seeing the comment directly, effects from me being reminded about it, or something like what happened with ETL and Spartan earlier.

Commenting that I want to hear the answer doesn't change anything, as if I didn't want to hear the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

Spartan BW is concerning considering I don't think he did anything

that

scummy; not enough to warrant the heaps of votes placed on him anyway. The players on this BW were in order: ETL, Gdooooog123456789, Farren, though ETL switched vote soon after. I feel this BW could be important to analyze further on in the game.

Breaking down those votes on Spartan a little more:

post 39: ETL votes for Spartan.
post 46: ETL switches to FormerFish. No one else casts any votes for anyone between these two votes.
post 50: gdog votes for Spartan.
post 57: I vote for Spartan.

Never more than two votes at a time - hardly "heaps of votes." Why describe it like this?

If the bandwagon is "concerning", why haven't you asked me about my vote? (You did ask gdog, who hasn't responded.)

It’s a lot of votes for someone who hadn’t done anything scummy enough to warrant the amount of votes at that point.

Reason I questioned Gdoooog and not you is because Gdoooog didn’t give an explanation as to why he voted the way he did.

Surface level, but that's my fault; I phrased the question poorly.

Let's try a slightly different angle. First - why do you think I'm voting for Spartan?

Let's try a slightly different angle. First - why do you think I'm voting for Spartan?

Because you either think he is scum, you are scum or you're trying to illicit a reaction from him.

Good answer.

I'd have expected a follow-up question, though. Three different possibilities you listed, plus there could be others.

Okay, maybe that's a playstyle thing. Not everyone likes to ask a bunch of questions.

What I'm trying to figure out is - what exactly are you trying to do? That ties in with the voting business too. Are you hunting? Are you trying to pressure people? Are you trying to engage people? Are you coming to conclusions? Or something else?

93
76
104

No hedge
Good thoughts
Good progression
Engages with the content they are replying to in a meaningful way

I think it's v

[Geyde]

Spoiler: Gilded

VOTE: TheGildedSun

think this is scum

First of all, I'd like to propose the question: that being why? What have I done to raise your suspicions of me? Nothing. I have had yet to post and you've already wrongly accused me of being scum.

It appears that everyone is random voting, which, as we have no leads (that it is day one, this would be expected) but we must collaborate. Give a reason WHY you are voting for you who are voting for.

Otherwise, the random votes will only raise my suspicions of the offender...

Voting me out will only assist the Mafia in gaining leverage as I swear to you I am town aligned... I will not Role Claim unless you absolutely require me to do so in order to "prove" my innocence, especially as it is advised against in means of narrowing down town, but I am ever so happy to cooperate.

I appear "nervous" as I do not wish to be voted out, especially on D1 of such a long game. I know that this is silly, especially because of D1 lasting for 10 in real life days and only having received a singular lynch vote, but I digress. I have a thing with being wrongly accused, I am the honest type especially while being town aligned, in which I rush to defend myself and I can easy see why that appears suspicious... Not only was my response out of uneasiness but it also came from curiosity. I am curious what prompted the initial vote... I couldn't find a reason why other than based on a gut instinct, but the only thing that gut instinct could've been based out of would've been my username?

Hey Gilded - what is your experience with forum mafia in general?

I've played forum based mafia once before on another website, in which I was on the mafia.

As for mafia in general, I have played many different variants in a more gamified approach- but haven't had access due to lack of a cellular phone.

UNVOTE:

Getting super new vibes from Gilded, so I don't know that the jumpiness actually applies here. I also like the thought process of "they're voting me and I'm town so they must be mafia". While misguided and incorrect, I was the same way when I first started.

Guilded

RVS (random voting stage) is just the first part of the game where people vote whoever for whatever reason, most often made up, to get the game started. It's generally accepted that these votes are not "serious" or "real". Most people tend to use the reactions to those random votes as a starting point to reading people.

WRT claiming - don't. We are far far far from that being necessary yet.

p-edit: Understood, thanks! What site was that, if I may ask?

It wasn't a mafia based site, it was an unrelated forum game that I used to obsessively play. I don't play the game anymore (portions of the website are curiously blocked from my school filter) except from checking the forums ever so often, in which some players hold Mafia Games, one which I decided to join. It was on Flight Rising.

I'd like to confess that yes, I had never known of RVing at the beginning of the first day being a common practice in a way to get the players talking. In all versions of mafia I have played this has never been something (most random votes were regarded as very suspicious unless the person claims it to be a gut lead) so if I seemed very confused and detached, this is the reason.

Prodding TheGildedSun.

Sorry about that! I've been reading this but haven't had much to say. I didn't mean to be lurking, I just didn't want to make any empty posts with no ulterior purpose.

Anyways, has Gdog said anything at all as of recent or just unrelated posts? I'll read through again after I post this, I am just wondering if anyone has caught anything. I guess I'll vote them to maybe help get them to talk...? Otherwise there's nothing I can draw from them yet...

VOTE: Gdooooog123456789

What should we make of Gdog voting for Spartan?

Adding on to that: I just read his posts and yeah, he's added nothing about his views, he's only repetitively voted for Spartan (3 times) and responded to the unrelated discussion.

His this lack of posting enough to warrant himself a replacement or is he still technically "active?"

I'm happy with my vote on Gdog for now. Presumably they will be replaced due to inactivity, but that makes me wonder, maybe my vote will allow for their replacement to open up? Who knows. I really only voted for Gdog because of the silence, I thought just

maybe

it might give them a chance to speak, but for now I can't be so sure... I will leave it where it is until a replacement is called in, hopefully they will be more talkative and therefore readable.

Voting me out will only assist the Mafia in gaining leverage as I swear to you I am town aligned... I will not Role Claim unless you absolutely require me to do so in order to "prove" my innocence, especially as it is advised against in means of narrowing down town, but I am ever so happy to cooperate.

I appear "nervous" as I do not wish to be voted out, especially on D1 of such a long game. I know that this is silly, especially because of D1 lasting for 10 in real life days and only having received a singular lynch vote, but I digress. I have a thing with being wrongly accused, I am the honest type especially while being town aligned, in which I rush to defend myself and I can easy see why that appears suspicious... Not only was my response out of uneasiness but it also came from curiosity. I am curious what prompted the initial vote... I couldn't find a reason why other than based on a gut instinct, but the only thing that gut instinct could've been based out of would've been my username?

This is genuine panic, however, the fact that he's trying to explain his nervousness, also saying that "I rush to defend myself and I can easy see why that appears suspicious" makes me think this is newb!scum.
This is not a live-speech, you can take your time and play it cool, showing this much nervousness really puts you in a bad spot.

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious? I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

UNVOTE: Gdooooog123456789

I dont have any judgement on Farren, but if I had to state an opinion on him it's kind of vague. I mean, he said a lot of things on page 6 without a whole lot of backing. He's asked a lot of questions, so honestly I believe we should return the favor and ask him some things too.

"Logic" is not what comes to mind when I read post 71. To me it felt unnatural -

like someone took a look at progression and hit the fast-forward button on it.

As 71 was Spartan's response to something I said early on but I am wondering why you think it was unnatural. Personally I believe his response was very understandable and was answered in a very calm manner.

What does the last part mean? (Part I underlined)

I know its not going to be believed now as factually its after your post, but I wasnt sheeping in the slightest, I read #14 and was about to comment on it, but got distracted irl. I can see how my delayed irl response can look like sheeping but its not whether you want to believe that, its up to you im not bothered either way. I'm happy where my vote is atm, sure I can see how it may be newbtown, but it could also be newbscum being over defensive, having a inexperienced response does not mean that a person is instantly town. I have seen several times where people have been let off the hook for things they have said with it being put down to them being new to forum mafia, and therefore they are automatically newbtown.

He gives a valid reason and addresses his conflicting views on my suspicious nature early on, but also staying openminded.

@Gilded
Do you have any thoughts on the overall game

All I see right now is words upon words upon words without a conclusion

[Geyde]

UNVOTE:

[Geyde]

Fish I think you’re ick how about that?

Becky with the good hair dont care and neither do i. Your push is weak and you should feel bad about that.

Why do you think I asked about her experience and backed off when I thought about it some more? I actually think she’s town based on all of her responses. I think you trying to turn a 3 post interaction into a case is a huge stretch when the trajectory is pretty damn clear. Are you just trying to make anything stick or do you genuinely believe I’m “making bad pushes”?

I think for scum to win they have to kill townies and maybe you want to push me as scum to get me out of the way early, I don't know why you are making bad pushes. I think that if you were interested in why someone was playing a certain way that you would talk to them about it, but both times now you have kinda flown off half cocked only to retract within a post or two.

I guess for me you are being a little reckless with your vote and i dislike your style choice.

I don’t like Spartans sheep at all though. Torn between newb following what seemed logical at the time or fish being bad and not actually interacting with me directly.

Not sure i understand that last part.

I like how fish tries to hang me with my experience while at the same time explaining how I’m bad scum who’s not blending in.

???? lol

Did I say that? I think I said you could be scum because your pushes have been on town so far. And theyve been bad pushes. Im not roping you with a BoP rap here, so im not sure where that came from.

How do you know ETL’s pushes have been on town?

Because i know my alignment and i read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off.

So, i know half of the pushes have been on town, and suspect the other half is as well.

The initial points on himself/Gilded make sense from his pov, but the remainder is deliberately written to not draw attention with how they don't engage the other points that haven't been covered on by him at any point before.

It's a slip, and his justification simply doesn't work on the whole

VOTE: Formerfish

[Geyde]

VOTE: TheGildedSun

think this is scum

First of all, I'd like to propose the question: that being why? What have I done to raise your suspicions of me? Nothing. I have had yet to post and you've already wrongly accused me of being scum.

It appears that everyone is random voting, which, as we have no leads (that it is day one, this would be expected) but we must collaborate. Give a reason WHY you are voting for you who are voting for.

Otherwise, the random votes will only raise my suspicions of the offender...

Holy cow, why are you are so nervous...?

VOTE: GildedSun

This is your second bad push. The dude joined 7 days ago and this is probably his first game on site.

You being an se should have seen that and explained what was going on to the greenie and helped him along, not attacked him for not understanding what was going on.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

think this is scum

First of all, I'd like to propose the question: that being why? What have I done to raise your suspicions of me? Nothing. I have had yet to post and you've already wrongly accused me of being scum.

It appears that everyone is random voting, which, as we have no leads (that it is day one, this would be expected) but we must collaborate. Give a reason WHY you are voting for you who are voting for.

Otherwise, the random votes will only raise my suspicions of the offender...

This is a very scummy response, town wouldn't be so worried of being voted as a townie being lynched gives reads of who was on their wagon and why, while scum are much more nervous about being lynched and this is hyper shown here.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

Bad sheeping is bad.

In both of ETLs reads she hasn't thought about the fact that scum would go along to get along, and she has pushed two people who have stuck their necks out.

Scum would be using their pt to avoid this.

Both the pushes are bad and you look worse for the follow here.

UNVOTE:

Getting super new vibes from Gilded, so I don't know that the jumpiness actually applies here. I also like the thought process of "they're voting me and I'm town so they must be mafia". While misguided and incorrect, I was the same way when I first started.

I like this, and I liked your question before it. I was wondering the same thing and would have asked it myself if you hadn't.

That's kinda the issue I have with it though. The question from ETL should have come first. The fact that she jumped the way she did and claimed a real vote only to back it off with what should have been an obvious explination of him being new.

I feel like ETL is tilting towards anything that is out of the ordinary and that scum would know to blend in and not rock the boat.

The reads are very surface level, and I know it's page 2 but ETL dropping real votes to retract them like that is ick.

[Geyde]

UNVOTE:

scum!fish feels like reaching atp

[Geyde]

Thread here started off completely different than my last game on this site wherein both the scum were not actively trying to gain control of thread.
Given how fast the accusations with Gilded went into ETL/Fish, I feel like scum have to be majorly involved with thread and are influencing thread as a major player given that numerous wagons have been getting to L-1 over the course of the day extremely fast. That doesn't make sense unless the playerlist was all chronic slankers

That points to ETL and/or Fish for me.

[Geyde]

Hey Gilded - what is your experience with forum mafia in general?

Why didn't you ask this question first before the vote?

[Chibiie]

Hey Gilded - what is your experience with forum mafia in general?

Why didn't you ask this question first before the vote?

Experienced peeps from different forums / platforms land in here.
Newbie games are not really "newb"... Newbs with this forum's generalities and some are really new to long-play Mafia (aka forum Mafia)

[Chibiie]

Replace "and" with "but"

[Chibiie]

Also, I feel attacked by your #260.
Elaborate.

[Geyde]

Hey Gilded - what is your experience with forum mafia in general?

UNVOTE:

Getting super new vibes from Gilded, so I don't know that the jumpiness actually applies here. I also like the thought process of "they're voting me and I'm town so they must be mafia". While misguided and incorrect, I was the same way when I first started.

Guilded

RVS (random voting stage) is just the first part of the game where people vote whoever for whatever reason, most often made up, to get the game started. It's generally accepted that these votes are not "serious" or "real". Most people tend to use the reactions to those random votes as a starting point to reading people.

WRT claiming - don't. We are far far far from that being necessary yet.

p-edit: Understood, thanks! What site was that, if I may ask?

Though I am curious why faust chose you over someone he knows or has played with before. Being that this is your first MS game, you haven't played with anyone here yet. Yeah yeah it's random but like, a lot of people use it as a "hello" type thing. If Faust was brand new like you, I would understand just randomly picking but I think there might have been some thought put into that choice.

Faust

- can you walk me through that pls?

This progression, despite the shitty vote before, is a turnaround that I completely agree with.

[Geyde]

Also, I feel attacked by your #260.
Elaborate.

What do you need explained?
I feel it's open and shut

[Geyde]

Hey Gilded - what is your experience with forum mafia in general?

Why didn't you ask this question first before the vote?

Experienced peeps from different forums / platforms land in here.
Newbie games are not really "newb"... Newbs with this forum's generalities and some are really new to long-play Mafia (aka forum Mafia)

I know this.
I've been playing mafia for the better part of the last year

In the context of their interaction with Gilded, Gilded's opener was very clearly coming from a newer player, which was why I felt the need to ask

[Geyde]

Hell
ETL/Fish are way too confident on the other's alignment and their nuclear fallout completely takes control of thread.

Interaction weird

I'm coming back to that later

[Geyde]

I think for scum to win they have to kill townies and maybe you want to push me as scum to get me out of the way early, I don't know why you are making bad pushes. I think that if you were interested in why someone was playing a certain way that you would talk to them about it, but both times now you have kinda flown off half cocked only to retract within a post or two.

Is retracting a bad argument scummy, Town, or both? And why?

I dont think in itself retracting is scummy. For me it was the push to begin with followed up by the quick abandonment of it.

Like the slot is 7 days old and makes an obnewb (no offense) post and she jumps down his throat with a bad faith argument, and a vote, only to be like hey why did you say that, and they explain that they are new (WHICH IS OBVIOUS) and she pulls back like oh thats cool.

Unless ETL is going for a slayers gambit by targeting me and a newb to draw heat I dont get her play and dont like hwat i see.

Like the slot is 7 days old and makes an obnewb (no offense) post and she jumps down his throat with a bad faith argument, and a vote, only to be like hey why did you say that, and they explain that they are new (WHICH IS OBVIOUS) and she pulls back like oh thats cool.

why on earth would my first move be to check their player date instead of the post they made?

Which do you legitimately think is more likely:

1) I'm scum who just posts off the cuff without reading anything I write beforehand,

or

2) I'm town who just reacted and continued reading?

And it's not a bad faith argument at all. For you to say that is disingenuous. You are deliberately discounting what actually happened to spin this narrative. The very definition of misrepresentation.

Her post was nervous and jumpy as fuck and if it came from anyone with any more amount of experience would be an absolutely valid reason to scumread a slot. As soon as I realized they might be new, I double checked and backed off. It happened literally within a couple of minutes and was very natural. For you to try to make it seem like I was somehow angling to lynch a newbie DURING RVS WHEN THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE HAPPENING is just flat out disgusting and wrong. Are you truly trying to tell me you are totally unable to comprehend the situation?

[Geyde]

Coming back after I get more sleep
Gamestate seems fucked

[Chibiie]

Looks like your posts are a soft-WKing for Fish to me.

Farren, you're off the hook for now.
New potential scum: Geyde

[Chibiie]

I think I've used the wrong term...
Was it chainsaw?

If I don't post anything about this, it means that the appropriate term I've meant to use was "soft-Chainsaw (defense)"

[Yodavader]

First off, I am gone for a day and 3 pages and 2.5 replacements. Wow.

Second,

Unvote

It is the nature of the game.

Disagree. Attacking a player is out of bounds, attack a role is not.

I can't start calling you names and then blame it on the game, youre still an asshole if you do that, scum or not.

If you are scum then i can kinda see your point, but if you are town thats slimy af.

I agree with this statement. I have only played with Chibiie in our last game but he was always good about attacking the role. To me, it was always done in a respectful way. I know that he said he wants to change his playstyle each game so as to not get meta'd, but it did come off more as going after the person vs the play.

UNVOTE:

scum!fish feels like reaching atp

Why the unvote? I would like to know why you think you were reaching?

Thread here started off completely different than my last game on this site wherein both the scum were not actively trying to gain control of thread.
Given how fast the accusations with Gilded went into ETL/Fish, I feel like scum have to be majorly involved with thread and are influencing thread as a major player given that numerous wagons have been getting to L-1 over the course of the day extremely fast. That doesn't make sense unless the playerlist was all chronic slankers

That points to ETL and/or Fish for me.

Before I joined this site, I always felt weird when things went to L-1, especially early in the day but the other game that I played with Chibiie, it went to L-1 quickly and was explained that L-1 isn't a bad thing but a gather information thing. Kinda like Magic, where the only life that matters is your last life, the only vote that matters is the lynch vote.

Also, I feel attacked by your #260.
Elaborate.

I don't see where the attack is coming from, but that's just me.

[faüstiv]

Thread here started off completely different than my last game on this site wherein both the scum were not actively trying to gain control of thread.
Given how fast the accusations with Gilded went into ETL/Fish, I feel like scum have to be majorly involved with thread and are influencing thread as a major player given that numerous wagons have been getting to L-1 over the course of the day extremely fast. That doesn't make sense unless the playerlist was all chronic slankers

That points to ETL and/or Fish for me.

This feels like a bit of a reach to me.