Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[Something_Smart]

Okay yeah I see it now, mb.

Did he ever answer?

[Something_Smart]

Another question.

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

Why is this something scum are more likely to do than town?

[skitter30]

That's why i voted him earlier

Not really

His response was that he hadnt made a suji vote ever, which i pointed out wasnt true and took issue with, and now we're having the current convo.

Although tbf i just magicked up a vote i didnt actually, like, make either so.

But i still dont like that he read the same set of posts and reached two opposite conclusions

[skitter30]

Another question.

it looks like he reread the game and forgot what his original position was, and made up a new one.

Why is this something scum are more likely to do than town?

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

[Billy Pilgrim]

Don't know how I feel about the topic just being behind the Kerset and rb slot. Kerset has really bad arguments but the approach they bring to the game feels towny. I think we should still go for Aaron here. Rb is just gonna be...well rb

Bad post. Trying to distract from the Kerset/rb discussions.

@Aaron, in response to 699, this to me didnt feel like you fighting you fighting your wagon by voicing opinions on who was scummy. This was you literally trying to shut down conversation on anything that wasnt rb/Kerset.

[Kerset]

@Billy what do you think about the rest of skitter content?

[Something_Smart]

Makes me feel like the thoughts arent real

Why would he change his tune, other than because his opinion changed?

Unless you think he puts so little effort into his scumgame that he forgot what his position was and made something up rather than bothering to look back one page to check?

[Kerset]

I think that I will have better read on him during D2 (either here or in dead chat).

do u think ur getting lynched today?

I looking at the VC and rb desire to death tunnel me. There are some odds.

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Billy

I’ve got a bit of experience playing with billy and I think this is his scum game. I don’t believe his push on Skitter here - it looks like he’s being pedantic and making a mountain out of a molehill rather than having that’s actually alignment-indicative at hand.

[Something_Smart]

I’ve got a bit of experience playing with billy and I think this is his scum game.

What are the differences?

[Luca Blight]

In my previous game when we were both Town I was able to correctly read Billy for the most part despite others suspecting him, because he was curious, game-solving and had direction to his pushes. In his scum game he sat back more and got bogged down in minor details like he’s doing here. His questions this game feel pretty pointless for the most part as well.

I’ve played with Town Billy at least 3 or 4 times before and have been able to correctly read him every time. His Town game is good.

[Luca Blight]

His Skitter push reminds me of his push on me during his scum game:

Spoiler:

Mainly post 551
I think I had commented at the time that I felt like scum!Icon wanted a sheep, but then went back to pushing me after people started voting me and accusing him of being my buddy?

Mainly his catchup to my reads and discussion, but he's still a firm null

Holy shit alot of stuff happened today. I miss one day at work and there's like 150 posts.

I quoted this because I now see what happened. I got the timeline wrong. I think 419 is the origin of my confusion regarding Icon's push. Tchill talked about 3 votes on Datisi. In fact there was only ever 2. Tchill and Icon. While Luca consistently read Datisi as scummy and put doubt on her, he wasn't voting her.

The whole thing started when Icon cased Emperor in 227, which had early traction until tchill let the air out of the Emperor push and then tchill voted Datisi in 235.

Almost comes into the game catches up and votes Kop. Then at 320 Icon votes Kop. After that Icon then seems to shade Luca a bit because of the Datisi scumread then signs off on it because of the lurking at posts 330 and 331. Datisi comes out with her reads list then Icon goes back to Kop at 344(all of this takes place within an hour). For the next 20 posts Luca and Icon ratchet up the pressure on Datisi and 366 Icon switches his vote back over to Datisi. Then 372 Icon hops back over to Kop after reading the Datisi/Icon/Luca situation as potentially all town. Datisi then votes Kop at 375. All that happened within 5 hours of the original call out for lurking. Kop goes up to L-1. Tchill calls out the kop votes and calls for more pressure on Datisi. So then there's some time where the votes are sitting on Kop then the replacement request happens. Then 477 Emperor votes Datisi for there to be 2 votes there. Now Luca votes Datisi at 488. And it's immediately after he expresses skepticism of Icon for switching his vote off Datisi back at post 371. Then 490 Icon votes Datisi. This entire current wagon built up from 1 vote to L-1 in under a page.
I'm most skeptical of Luca here. I don't see what changed from when he was shading Datisi the first time Icon ran the wagon to this time. I was looking at Icon/Datisi and I missed the person who was sitting mostly on the sidelines. I think when it got more likely, specifically when Emperor hopped on, now he felt he had more cover and came in as the middle vote.

VOTE: Luca



Pedit: as I was typing this monster I saw a luca vote from A50. So this is now L-2

Wordy and overly focused on minor details. It doesn’t feel like real scumhunting, which he exhibits in his Town games.

[Flubbernugget]

@nom3 When you shaded s_s, skitter and flubb you compared their gameplay to their previous games. When you scumread me you compared me to yourself and your general theories. Why didn't you compare me to my previous games like you did with others?

Like even this post - i dont think this is the sort of post newb scum makes.
I think he actually wants nom to explain it, and it's more important to him than a lot of what elss is going on inthread rn (like, say, the current rb/kerset discussion)

Like i dont think newbscum focuses on this when they should be focusing on like getting the wagon off of them. This doesnt help that. I think he's asking because he doesnt get nom's approach here, and that's more important to him than anything else rn

I dont think this comes from scum

This looks like trying to debunk a scum read on them ie breaking their wagon down

[Kerset]

If he disagree with this then what else do you except him to do?

[Luca Blight]

Kerset, I suggest voting someone other than rb, because rb isn’t being lynched today.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: kerset[\v]

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: kerset

[Something_Smart]

It looks to me like you got this timeline wrong.

I got the timeline wrong.

[Something_Smart]

I did notice that in the scum post you linked, as well as here, he (a) put a lot of emphasis on mapping out an accurate chronology and (b) put suspicion on someone for a relatively minor inconsistency at two different points in said chronology.

Has he done either of those things as town?

[Flubbernugget]

Iso dive on billy doesn't give any obvious scum points

[Flubbernugget]

Same for aaron

[Kerset]

Kerset, I suggest voting someone other than rb, because rb isn’t being lynched today.

There are more then 4 days left. Why are you sure about this? He is not even the least voted person here.

[Luca Blight]

@SS: I think he does it to a lesser extent, but doesn’t allow himself to get bogged down by it. He’s a lot more flexible as Town and will not rest his view on the game on something so insignificant.

@Kerset: there’s no way rb gets lynched over you today. He’s been one of the few productive Town players and is never getting lynched D1 when there are so many low-content/dubious slots. I advise you to pursue one of your other scumreads.

[Luca Blight]

Here’s an example of a D1 Town Billy push from his last Town game that I was in:

Spoiler:

What happened to Garmr?

Here's where I'm at. We're in a pretty low activity game state. This works real well for scum because it breeds apathy. It also doesn't help town sort much. I'm kinda lost. Kraeg came in hyper aggro. I don't read that as scummy but others were. I think what I found a lack of effort on reads from that slot was a problem.

@Norwegian - why is Kraeg scum. Is it just that he accused you of taking us out of RVS? And if that's why, why is that enough?

I don't have a strong candidate at the moment, but I think Mohab is my preference. Sheeped the Kraeg wagon. Then hopped onto Garmr saying it felt like caught scum. Then just left and went back to Kraeg. I feel like that's the worst vote all game so far so thats where I wanna be.

VOTE: Mohab

He does reference past events but not in such an overly accurate, nit-picky way, and his approach just seems a lot more natural.

[Billy Pilgrim]

S_S at 60, I had just seen the RT from Suji. Those things drive me crazy in general, and I usually scumread them, because they feel like a lie. You can check my last newbie game where i scumread Farkran for one early on. By 77, Suji admitted that it was a RT but he committed to having answers within a day so I figured I could reassess at that moment. So I reread the thread and realized that despite the the initial push that it was scummy and then the 1 on 1, Skitt had never placed a vote on Suji, which in retrospect given the interaction felt worse.

So no Skitt I didnt come to opposite conclusions. I didn't like your push w/o a vote and I didnt like Suji's initial response. After Suji discussed that he wanted more time, I figured that I would revisit that later. I felt like Suji's explanatioj for the RT was legitimate, and so I wasnt concerned about it at that point, and because the explanation addressed my concern, I forgot I had ever voted him. Once I decided to give Suji more time, it became more pressing to sort your slot over the push w/o a vote.

That maintained through some of your follow-ups, so that's what I focused on, and I tend to feel most comfortable assessing people's cases on me (this is probably unjustified confidence, because from my memory I got the last two wrong), so that is why I focused on it. @Kerset, I only have experience with Skitt as a mod, so I dont know what I make of the rest of her play. It feels curt and snippy, but that could be NAI.

And Luca, I'm wordy in all my games. In fact I think the only game where I didnt have an insanely over explained wall was my mini theme game and that was a scum game.