Newbie 1962 | (Game Over)

[Chibiie]

Chibiie I do think is town, I'm feeling a strong leader vibe from them but in a good way, they're trying to get everyone to talk and I like that.

Call me Chibiie the Mayor, my little lovely Townies.

[Chibiie]

[...]but not by automatically attacking someone or constantly claiming a singular person is mafia.[...]

Keep in mind that scums don't want attention, so

passive

is usually read scummy, but I will correct you and say that these two were not

passive

, but

low-profile

.

[Farren]

Let me first make something clear: Passive does not mean silent.

Both of these players have been very active with expressing their views but not by automatically attacking someone or constantly claiming a singular person is mafia. As I mentioned with Fish his aggressive nature, specifically against Faust left a bad taste in my mouth. The types of people who appear desperate to convince everyone else that a certain person is mafia always stick out like a sore thumb. These two people that I have mentioned, Faust and ETL, are both open minded, listen to the other players, but don't automatically jump onto a wagon without reasoning. (Which is often associated with scum behavior, as it can be an easy way to get a townsperson killed in the day.)

So "passive" as an antonym to "aggressive", but relating to tone and vote activity as opposed to post volume.

Okay, I think I can see that. And it matches with how you were acting at the beginning with regards to faustiv.

[TheGildedSun]

[...]but not by automatically attacking someone or constantly claiming a singular person is mafia.[...]

Keep in mind that scums don't want attention, so

passive

is usually read scummy, but I will correct you and say that these two were not

passive

, but

low-profile

.

I must've used the wrong term then, I'm sorry, sometimes I can be a little cloudy when it comes to terminology. Hopefully what I attempted to convey with my words was still clear enough, thank you for the correction, I will make note of this.

[Chibiie]

Okay, I think I can see that. And it matches with how you were acting at the beginning with regards to faustiv.

I will agree on this one.

[Farren]

Wait, I missed something.

I’m thinking fish/Farren/gdooog are all town based on voting patterns.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

They has an open mind I can tell without being too fixed on a certain read which just justifies my conclusion that he must be town aligned.

These two things don't mesh very well, given how faustiv opened the game. Can you explain further, please?

[faüstiv]

Why are you so hell bent on rushing things?

We must push for info, there's 5 days left, irl events keep happening...
You think 5 days is enough to read scums 100%?

We need a lynch... We need info... Your turn of events look strange to me, will put you as netural.

I agree with that but we also don’t want roleclaims or lolhammers this early on either.
M

[Geyde]

UNVOTE:
scum!fish feels like reaching atp

Why the unvote? I would like to know why you think you were reaching?

There's a legitimate case to be made for it being a slip and it not being one
That's why I felt like I was reaching

[Geyde]

Thread here started off completely different than my last game on this site wherein both the scum were not actively trying to gain control of thread.
Given how fast the accusations with Gilded went into ETL/Fish, I feel like scum have to be majorly involved with thread and are influencing thread as a major player given that numerous wagons have been getting to L-1 over the course of the day extremely fast. That doesn't make sense unless the playerlist was all chronic slankers

That points to ETL and/or Fish for me.

This feels like a bit of a reach to me.

After rereading today, I've come to that as well
It's due to the players themselves and the points brought up rather than any influencing of direction

Last game had an argument started off of RVS with most of the players at the start being passive rather than active
This one is the exact opposite

I'm retracting from that world because of it

[Geyde]

Geyde what are your thoughts on Chibiie so far?

Null

There's some pretty blatant opportunism
But there's also the wtf tier play from them that scum struggles to replicate

It's one of those slots that I just leave in the resolve later pile because it's hard to read into their motivation and progression

[Geyde]

Spoiler:

Well, that was quite an interesting start to the game.

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1. I would be the bass player because we all know that the bassist is really the face of any band. Plus, my current favorite person on my current favorite band is the bassist, MISA from Band-Maid.
2. With real money, very conservatively. With fake money, mostly all-ins at the beginning to try and get a good lead and then more conservative once I have a good amount of chips.

It was RVS, so I just picked someone at random, though if anything, RVS’ing a new player is a better way to illicit a reaction from them. Experienced players know it’s RVS, so are unlikely to take the vote seriously.

I like the thought process behind this.

Do you think newbie town or scum is more likely to react poorly to being voted?

What did you learn from the vote here?

For me, especially if this is their first game with this type of setup, I think it's NAI (I think that's the right term for it). The reaction I got is that she is very jumpy but understandable since I hated being voted for my first few games in forum based Mafia. So for me, it's forgiven but not forgotten. Let's see how she plays the rest of the game.

Now, if she had even just a couple of games under her belt, then I would say that this is scummy. I think town would be more jumpy if they were at L-1 where scum wouldn't want any attention at all.

I think for scum to win they have to kill townies and maybe you want to push me as scum to get me out of the way early, I don't know why you are making bad pushes. I think that if you were interested in why someone was playing a certain way that you would talk to them about it, but both times now you have kinda flown off half cocked only to retract within a post or two.

Is retracting a bad argument scummy, Town, or both? And why?

For me, it depends on how the retraction goes. A gradual progression after a discussion is more townie than an abrupt 180 turn in a very short time.

I'm going to have to go back through the ETL/Fish section to see how I really feel about that.

Though I am curious why faust chose you over someone he knows or has played with before. Being that this is your first MS game, you haven't played with anyone here yet. Yeah yeah it's random but like, a lot of people use it as a "hello" type thing. If Faust was brand new like you, I would understand just randomly picking but I think there might have been some thought put into that choice.

Faust

- can you walk me through that pls?

I'm don't think anything in RVS can be taken seriously. In my experience, I have seen people vote for others that they have played with before because "they were scum last game, so they must be scum this game" and also where they vote for players they haven't played with before because "I don't know you so you must be scum" and basically anything in between. So, I think trying to figure out why a person chose this player to RVS over another is a moot point.

This is a very scummy response, town wouldn't be so worried of being voted as a townie being lynched gives reads of who was on their wagon and why, while scum are much more nervous about being lynched and this is hyper shown here.

VOTE: TheGildedSun

My experience has been that early signs of nervousness can sometimes be scum-motivated, but it's definitely not a smoking gun by any stretch. Some Town players absolutely get nervous about being voted.

What about GildedSun's behavior makes this "hyper shown here?"

I don't think we need to talk about this part anymore. It doesn't help us at all and can only hurt us.

But why stop a conversation in the first place? If we are actually making some kind of progress, why stop it?

-snip-

Did I say that? I think I said you could be scum

because your pushes have been on town so far

. And theyve been bad pushes. Im not roping you with a BoP rap here, so im not sure where that came from.

I know that you have already answered this but I just wanted to point out that I have noticed this too.

VOTE: Spartan117

Still waiting for a reason why you popped in with no explanation on this vote.

But as of right now, I am going to VOTE: Fish. I don't know why you would want to stop any conversation. My experience (limited as it is) says that conversations will naturally die off on it's own and move onto the next topic. There is not reason for someone to try and stop it. Also, I think the slip of the tongue is more telling than what you are trying to cover.

Next few days are gonna be busy for me just FYI.

Strongly disliking the momentum of the fish wagon. Will look into this more later but I’d put money if fish is town, which the speed suggests, there’s at least one scum in that group.

There was literally no fight at all.

UNVOTE:

I've been wanting to try something different with RVs

1. If you were in a 4 piece band (front man singer, guitar, bass and drums) which do you choose and why?

2. Do you play poker? How would you describe your play?

3. Oh shit... It looks like this is still in progress, just answer the first two and we'll be good.

1) drummer cuz i gots anger issues and i don't like being in the spotlight IRL
2) no but if I did I'd probably have fun
3) methinks you trying to dodge suspicion by not voting.

VOTE: fish

VOTE: fish

Talk about “weak” pushes.

It's hard to say that there was no fight when there were votes put on Fish. Sure, the first was RVS-esque but the second was more of a legitimate vote during a discussion with each other.

I think this is a good way to judge read progression - gradual progression is more Town than abrupt 180s here.

For bad arguments, though - it shouldn't take that long to clear up genuine mistakes of fact, semantic confusion, or missed possibilities. Semantic confusion is probably the toughest of the three, as sometimes it isn't obvious that's what's happening - but once it is obvious, it's as easy to fix as the others.

And yes, definitely an interesting start. Should mean a fun game coming up.

That is also true. If the argument is proven to be bad logic, then correcting it in a few posts would count as post progression, at least to me.

I can think of a few different conversations that should be shut down pronto, for a variety of reasons (game rules, game integrity, benefits scum)

I don't think mine fell into any of the categories, but it was at least within eyesight of one of them, so I'm not going to hold a grudge against trying to stay away from the line.

Also agreed that discussions about things outside of what is happening in game should be stopped but there are things that should just be spoken out until the end.

I think things that could benefit scum could/would also benefit town. If we are afraid to speak about things because it could benefit scum, then we just shouldn't say anything at all?

Also, I think that talking about how we perceive "hyper" responses is a topic that shouldn't be stopped but let that conversation die off naturally.

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

VOTE: Spartan117

Cool

VOTE: Gdog

Something we can agree on. He's had plenty of time to make some kind of post. Not even an impact post. Literally, any kind of post.

VOTE: Gdog

I agree with Chibiie on all points (which is really reminiscent of our last game), especially about Gdog but I can't switch my vote at this moment. If it wasn't for Gdog's "play", my vote would still be on Fish.

Wow, that was a good page. I do believe that the Farren v Chibiie is TvT. But I do agree with Chibiie over Farren on the answering questions section.

You shouldn't state that you want to answer something, but wait for someone else's answer before-hand... I mean... I wanna place a bet on this team, but will wait until they win.

Makes sense?

Disagree. The question was specifically about why Spartan unvoted. If Spartan's scum, me commenting in detail could make him change the answer he gives to sound better. If Spartan's Town and his answer happens to address the issue I'm thinking of *after* I comment, I'll suspect that he changed his answer based on my comments, which will devalue the answer.

By stating publicly that I want to comment, it helps maintain accountability on multiple levels. On my end, I want to make sure I don't forget about it, and commenting in the thread increases the likelihood that someone else will notice and inquire if I do. On Spartan's end, it increases the likelihood that he will answer - either by him seeing the comment directly, effects from me being reminded about it, or something like what happened with ETL and Spartan earlier.

Commenting that I want to hear the answer doesn't change anything, as if I didn't want to hear the answer, I wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

The way that you described is very WIFOM-y. Like Chibiie stated, if you answer after they answer, your answer could have been influenced by their's. It will devalue your answer because how do we know that you didn't change your answer.

What makes you think we're both townies?
I honestly believe that Farren must be scum for his misplays and for his low-profile.

The thing is, his low-profile is showing... He's not keeping a quiet low-profile, but an obvious one.
Like... everyone can tell that he plays over a game plan. You wound act that open and secretive at the same time, unless you don't follow a plan which in order to work, requirements must be met.

I strongly believe there is a scum in Formerfish/Farren and I tend to believe that Farren is more likely to flip red.

I can see where his thought process is coming from when it comes to directed questions. I still don't like his WIFOM response, but having a game plan isn't always scummy. I guess we'll see what he is talking about when he decides to share with the class.

Your play has been pretty consistent with town, so you are TR for me.

As for your Farren/Formerfish flip, I think that fish has a better chance of flipping red.

I would like to hear from the other folks though. I think both scum are just hanging out and letting us do all the work for them.

@faüstiv

, could you get into more details about the game so far?

The game itself is pretty inactive, so I don't really have much to add to my current stance.
I wish I could analyze all of you, but a dead thread is not helping me out on this.

Agreed. Though I know some people said that they would be away for the weekend, it would be nice to get a little traction, anywhere.

-snip-

Yoda agrees on joining this wagon if it was not for Gdog's "play" and tbh, will question that later, but for now I'm really set on figuring out who's the scum out of Formerfish/Farren and will keep on fiddling between these two during D1. (Unless a major turn of events happen and makes me turn toward another player)

Will be off for the next 14 or so hours.
Ttyl

Yeah, this is just like last game. Would have voted for player 1 but player 2 is just so much more inviting. Hope the results aren't the same though, where they were both town.

-snip-

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious? I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

Yes, don't just watch from the sidelines. Every action, every post, helps us figure out who scum is. Don't be afraid to voice your thoughts. Mislynches and NK happen and it can be a good thing because we can use that to see who pushed who or who stayed away and that can help us find scum.

@Yoda
What are

your

thoughts on the game?

Your slot is making a lot of judgements based off of what other people conclude and I don't see how a lot of your questions push the gamestate forward

[Geyde]

Looks like your posts are a soft-WKing for Fish to me.

Farren, you're off the hook for now.
New potential scum: Geyde

I think I've used the wrong term...
Was it chainsaw?

If I don't post anything about this, it means that the appropriate term I've meant to use was "soft-Chainsaw (defense)"

Could you flesh out this in context with what I've posted
I don't see where you are coming from because I've approached reading slots individually atp

[Farren]

I think I like Geyde.

[Chibiie]

Looks like your posts are a soft-WKing for Fish to me.

Farren, you're off the hook for now.
New potential scum: Geyde

I think I've used the wrong term...
Was it chainsaw?

If I don't post anything about this, it means that the appropriate term I've meant to use was "soft-Chainsaw (defense)"

Could you flesh out this in context with what I've posted
I don't see where you are coming from because I've approached reading slots individually atp

Farren has been FOS'ed to a certain extent and then you butt in soft-defending him out of nowhere.
His plays are scummish to me and the main and biggest problem I have against him is that he refused to share his thoughts openly, but instead has publicly admitted that he's waiting on someone else's answer before posting his.

Also, the fact that he reacted so defensively when in a safe-spot (No votes on him at the time of our face-off) put him on a bad spot on my list.

You coming in and reading him townlean... sorry mate, I see team here.

[Chibiie]

Potential team*, excuse my boredom.

[eth0s]

Official Vote Count 1.16

Lynching

With 9 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Formerfish

(2): Chibiie, Yodavader

Chibiie

(1): Formerfish

TheGildedSun

(1): faüstiv

Yodavader

(1): EspeciallyTheLies

Not Voting

(4): Farren, TheGildedSun, Radja, Geyde

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-03 12:50:00).

Mod notes:

n/a[/area]

[Radja]

Oh hey I caught up. Remaining notes from page 8 forward:

notes

Chibiie's assessment of Farren-Fish seems pretty accurate. This is a possible scumteam
Farren unvotes Spartan who gets replaced, but doesn't push anyone else. Worth noting.
faustiv mentions he can't see Farren/Fish as a scumteam because Farren voted Fish early on. I think early distancing is pretty common practice. This reaction makes me townread faustiv even more, because I don't think scum would take this stance, unless both are town??
Chibiie points out faustiv is wrong about Farren voting Fish. I hadn't checked that. Leaning more town on both slots.
I like GildedSun's assessment of Spartan and Farren's failure to grasp it.
Farren's 204 gives me the creeps. Drops the argument on faustiv's scumhunting style, then promises to read one of his finished games and makes an evasive comment about faustivs Gilded vote. Ewww
Fish votes Chibiie. Scum can't be THAT obvious, can they?
faustiv unvotes Farren. Would love to hear reasoning for this.
faustiv questioning Chibiie for jumping wagons, when he's been pretty consistent on scumreads Fish and Farren.
Geyde's entrance is confusing. Assessment on ETL makes me feel better.
The fact that everybody seems up for a Fish lynch bothers me somewhat. Hardly any opposition it seems

Questions

Farren: have you started reading faustiv's completed game yet? What's your assessment?
faustiv: why did you unvote Farren?

Reads

Town: Chibiie, faustiv
Lean town: ETL, GildedSun
null: Yoda, Geyde
lean scum: Farren, FormerFish

Thoughts

Getting a bit worried that Fish is a mislynch because of the massive support there seems to be.
I'm more interested in a Farren lynch right now. Although if needed I will switch to Fish.
I will take extra interest in anyone trying to lynch Chibiie. He's been the driving force in this game and will likely draw a nightkill sooner or later. If he's still alive on day 3 I will reassess. Definitely not sooner.
Would love to hear more from ETL, who's had very little input since like page 5.

[Chibiie]

If he's still alive on day 3 I will reassess.

Oh boy, I might be dead way sooner than that.
I've already foreseen my death in an earlier post:

Either we flip a green and I get pushed D2 for being main drive force;
We flip a red and I get NK'ed for being such a big threat with my reads;

Latest I could die is by being NK'ed in N2 if we flip red/green.
If we flip green/green, then most likely I will be used for Lylo and D3 MUST end in a red flip. (Assuming we fail very hard at lynching red in first 2 days)

I doubt I will survive until Lylo because everyone here will turn heads towards me if we flip a green D1.
In conclusion: The most I can survive in this game is D2.

[Chibiie]

I'm completely aware of my stance in this game and there is no possible way for me to survive longer than D2.
Scums must be bad if they think they have a chance to win if I survive longer than that.

[Radja]

As I said, I'll reassess on day 3 if you're still alive.

[Chibiie]

As I said, I'll reassess on day 3 if you're still alive. :lol:

Oh, I completely understand that and I completely agree, BUT I must say that if we both survive 'til D3, I tend to believe one of us is scum and since I know I'm town, means that there'll be a clash.

But that only if we don't flip any reds by D3...
D3 (assuming we lynch and there are NKs) would end up in a 5 peeps situation.

If we're both town and we share the same reads, here's the deal:
I'm town in a 3 Town 2 Scum situation (D3)... That means I have to read 2 Towns and 2 Scums, but if we have same reads and we both survive, something doesn't add up... One of us 2 must be scum then.

This is already thinking ahead in time, but you can't deny this fact. There is a 2nd hypothesis which is that if we both survive 'til D3, we're both town and are being played by scums so that we clash in D3 and end up with 3 green flips which if that happens, that's a scum win.

Thinking too far ahead, but you get my point.

[TheGildedSun]

We haven't heard from Fish in a while. I'm kind of interested in what he might have to say. Radja, I give props to you, your reads post has moved you much closer to town in terms of my own reads. He's also made a point, that needs to be addressed. The universal support for lynching Fish is concerning, no doubt. Is this evidence that we may have been mislead, or could it be the other mafia throwing Fish under the bus as a plan to appear innocent? The latter really seems unlikely to me, (it could be something else as well, of course) as the players who may be attempting to cover up their alignment (Farren specifically) didn't lead the initial Fish wagon.
On another note, following Farren's initial suspicions for Spartan, why doesn't he seem invested in looking into Radja? I mean, if he truly believed Spartan to be scum, that would prompt him to investigate Radja, even following the courtesy unvote, no?

[faüstiv]

do do do do do election feverrrrrrr

[Chibiie]

Oh ye, good question I may ask Farren now:

What is your view on replacements? Fresh read on the slot? Continue from where you left off?
It does look strange that you're not longer investigating Spartan's slot (Radha). Slot's alignment is the same, regardless of who plays it.

[Chibiie]

Radja, I believe you're a solid Town and if we work together, as long as we both live, scums have no chance, this game is in our bag. I like your playstyle because it is very much like mine, but different post structure.