Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

I think that I will have better read on him during D2 (either here or in dead chat).

do u think ur getting lynched today?

I looking at the VC and rb desire to death tunnel me. There are some odds.

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

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This looks like trying to debunk a scum read on them ie breaking their wagon down

i don't think so

VOTE: kerset

no

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Skitt had never placed a vote on Suji, which in retrospect given the interaction felt worse.

it made the interaction feel worse because ...

I didn't like your push w/o a vote and I didnt like Suji's initial response.

i don't get it

your original post seemed to agree with my pov, your latter one seemed to agree with suji. i don't get how you went from one to the other

Once I decided to give Suji more time, it became more pressing to sort your slot over the push w/o a vote.

like in your original post you don't express this concern with my play, you seem to be agreeing with me

and why is pushing someone without a vote on p4 scummy exactly?

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also what happened to suji?

[skitter30]

when i reread something, and new information hs been provided, i don't usually do a complete 180 and form the opposite opinion i did the first time

But you and Billy are not the same person.

I bet you wouldn't do what he did if you were scum, either, right?

no, i wouldn't

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

[nomnomnom]

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

I think that's insanely wrong and I've seen people do this all the time and I was told not to freak out when people started a wagon on me in my first game, where I was scum, and I was approaching being the day 1 lynch really fast. You also have to remember that this is not a L-1 or anything, just one or two people that were pushing Kerset as scum when a few people pushed rb as manipulative previously, so there's a lot of relief to be had.

I think that assuming scums would freak out here is a completely wrong statement to make especially when you take the psychology of people that are guilty into consideration.

[skitter30]

I think that's a fair criticism of my play here and I think part of the reason I've been 'snappier' here is because of stress in my irl life and when I get stressed I tend to snap at people without realizing it.

i actually meant 'snappy' in the sense of 'quick, not being thought-out', and not in the sense of being 'short or upset with someone'

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So, scum Skitter wouldn't really coach per-say.

i would with some players

Although, in that game, there was an argument between Skitter and Robb on Day 3 which was forced due to one of them mass claiming and the other refusing to claim.

i didn't go out of my way to pick that argument, i have no idea why he didn't claim there

So, in general, I think that if skitter were to be scum, then rb would be as well.

while i do pick fights with scum partners sometimes, i find this to be a p shoddy associative read

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Hm, the Billy wagon isn't bad. Not my first choice from my notes but the information is good enough for me to join
VOTE: Billy

um this vote is mildly creepy

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This some bs right here.

disagree

[Luca Blight]

I think it depends on your level of investment in the game, but i agree that scum are more likely to ‘forget’ their previous stances and opinions, which is why I suspected Fetchd when he suddenly went from being convinced I was scum to leaving me alone completely and voting someone else. That didn’t feel like a natural progression either.

[nomnomnom]

Also to note that Kerset now has completely stopped posting things that were considered scummy by other people, subconsciously or not. That adds to my point that Kerset knows they fucked up somewhere and subconsciously stopped doing that. An innocent person would have already challenged these notions, or would have continued doing these things all the same.

Point to me a single Kerset post after my initial shading accusations that can be seen as shading. Spoiler: You won't find any. That is why Kerset is a good lynch.

[Something_Smart]

but i also feel like this isn't something most people do, not just me ?

No, you're right, it isn't something most people do.

But that's not the important question here. The important question is, is it something that a lot of people would do as scum but NOT as town? I think probably not.

[skitter30]

i also don't think scum is this resigned/ok with getting lynched at this juncture ^

I think that's insanely wrong and I've seen people do this all the time and I was told not to freak out when people started a wagon on me in my first game, where I was scum, and I was approaching being the day 1 lynch really fast. You also have to remember that this is not a L-1 or anything, just one or two people that were pushing Kerset as scum when a few people pushed rb as manipulative previously, so there's a lot of relief to be had.

I think that assuming scums would freak out here is a completely wrong statement to make especially when you take the psychology of people that are guilty into consideration.

i'm not exactly assuming that he'd freak out, so much that i don't expect scum to be like 'oh i don't know player x's alignment but i guess i'll find out day2 in the dead thread'
randomly when throwing out a readslist, scum aren't so like ~accepting~ of getting lynched that they casually acknowledge it like this when talking about something else completely irrelevant

i get that you're pulling from like psychological studies of how guilty people behave or whatever but in the ~many~ mafia games i've played this isn't something i've seen scum do much at all

i'm kinda in a rush so i don't think i explained what i meant super well here but i'll try again later tonight if i didn't get across what i was trying to say; i'll finish catching up later too

[nomnomnom]

I'd agree with the argument that mafia players tend not to do that, but the reason I say this is because this player is a new player. Newer players aren't too likely to run gambits, or play 4d chess with other people or what have you, they're likely to follow patterns that we see everywhere in real life. Liars tend to avoid what's important and feign ignorance and never challenge things at the risk of exposing themselves as a liar and a fraud. That's a fact. And if someone plays scum for the first time is accused of doing something, my theory is that they're likely to do exactly that since they have no experience of doing otherwise.

I think this discussion is going nowhere though, which is sad, I find the subject fascinating myself.

[Luca Blight]

A lack of flailing can itself be a defensive method through reverse-psychology.

It reminds me of a previous game when A50 was scum who refused to scumread anyone and even said ‘you should lynch me today as I’ll be no use in LYLO’. It worked as he wasn’t lynched that day and scum ended up winning.

[nomnomnom]

A lack of flailing can itself be a defensive method through reverse-psychology.

As I said, if you were to watch interrogations of guilty suspects, you'll see that every single one of them do this, it's actually kinda crazy

They think that if they show emotion or dare challenge subtle accusations they'll inevitably appear more guilty, but what they don't know is that psychologists know that the contrary is true. So what they do is shut down emotionally, feign ignorance, and side-step important questions in favor of completely irrelevant points.

[Sujimichi]

I apologize. I am having a bit of trouble getting into this game with the speed. I'm going to try and get caught up tonight.

[Luca Blight]

I just realised Skitter is still voting rb.

Do you really think rb is the best Lynch for today? I find that hard to get my head around.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t like Pm’s entrance or vote either. Meta isn’t the main point against Kerset - it’s a supporting point. Rb scumread Kerset before he ever looked at or mentioned their meta.

[Sirfetchd]

I think it depends on your level of investment in the game, but i agree that scum are more likely to ‘forget’ their previous stances and opinions, which is why I suspected Fetchd when he suddenly went from being convinced I was scum to leaving me alone completely and voting someone else. That didn’t feel like a natural progression either.

I would say that I am much more likely to forget reads as town. But I have definitely done it a lot as both alignments, and also hidden it a lot as both alignments, basically arguing for lynches I don't believe in to protect myself from suspicion because I don't want to be lynched.

But I reckon most people on site would forget reads, it's just if you can be fucked going back to remember why you felt like that.
So for example, I don't have conviction in my SS read, I just remember having a town SS read. So why not?

I think Ducky can probably back me up on this one.

That all said you are being a bit more considered the past couple of pages, which is goodstuffs.

And a thought occurs, should we be reading in to that skit is soft pushing billy and still not voting there? I hate pre-flip connections, but I could see them as scum together, but I think that might just be my skit bias talking.

[nomnomnom]

I'd actually argue that someone who is 100% logically consistent about their votes and their positions is more likely to be scum depending on their experience level.

[Kerset]

A lack of flailing can itself be a defensive method through reverse-psychology.

As I said, if you were to watch interrogations of guilty suspects, you'll see that every single one of them do this, it's actually kinda crazy

They think that if they show emotion or dare challenge subtle accusations they'll inevitably appear more guilty, but what they don't know is that psychologists know that the contrary is true. So what they do is shut down emotionally, feign ignorance, and side-step important questions in favor of completely irrelevant points.

I think that you actually watch witch trails. The ones were witch is drowned and called guilty no matter the outcome.

Also to note that Kerset now has completely stopped posting things that were considered scummy by other people, subconsciously or not. That adds to my point that Kerset knows they fucked up somewhere and subconsciously stopped doing that. An innocent person would have already challenged these notions, or would have continued doing these things all the same.

Point to me a single Kerset post after my initial shading accusations that can be seen as shading. Spoiler: You won't find any. That is why Kerset is a good lynch.

I am quite sure that you would call me guilty in any outcome
Kerset still looks scummy - he is a scum
Kerset doesn't look scummy - he is a scum

[Something_Smart]

As I said, if you were to watch interrogations of guilty suspects, you'll see that every single one of them do this, it's actually kinda crazy

They think that if they show emotion or dare challenge subtle accusations they'll inevitably appear more guilty, but what they don't know is that psychologists know that the contrary is true. So what they do is shut down emotionally, feign ignorance, and side-step important questions in favor of completely irrelevant points.

For the record, I think in-person tells and online tells are totally different. Online you can take as much time as you want to think about stuff.

[nomnomnom]

I think that you actually watch witch trails. The ones were witch is drowned and called guilty no matter the outcome.

Feel free to go on Youtube and watch these interrogations and you'll see if those are witch trials!

[nomnomnom]

I am quite sure that you would call me guilty in any outcome
Kerset still looks scummy - he is a scum
Kerset doesn't look scummy - he is a scum

If you do not look scummy or don't do anything I consider scummy I have no reason to think you're scum. You've done these things though and you've followed a scummy pattern afterwards. So you must be scum in my mind.

[Sirfetchd]

Salem is well known for being early adopters of Youtube.

[Sirfetchd]

Although back then it was call Ye OldeTube which is actually where the current name Youtube originated from.

[nomnomnom]

How do we reconcile this with the fact that YouTube was supposed to be at first a dating website?

[Luca Blight]

I sense that Billy isn’t the bussing type, so I don’t think he and Skitter are partners, but I would like to know exactly who Skitter wants to be lynched today.

[Sujimichi]

UNVOTE: