Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[nomnomnom]

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon.

Give me a definition of shading.

[Something_Smart]

because if you read the same thing twice and are trying to figure out someone's alignment i dont' understand how you can come to totally opposite conclusions each time

like this just doesn't happen to me when i play town ...
that i like read the same twice in a relatively short timespan, without getting any new info, and feel different things about it each time.
i reread things to remind myself what i thought about it the first time because sometimes i forget and i nearly always have a very similar impression the second time around that i did the first time

This is just an argument for why it's unlikely as town, not for why it's less likely as town than it is as scum.

You could prove that, for instance, only 0.5% of people would do it as town, but if only 0.1% of people would do it as scum, it's not scummy.

[Kerset]

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon.

Give me a definition of shading.

Posting something that could in result generate a scumlean on someone.

[nomnomnom]

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon.

Give me a definition of shading.

Posting something that could in result generate a scumlean on someone.

Then I can see why you're confused. For me shading is posting something in order to make someone look bad, regardless of scumread or not. Making someone look bad in this game can be seen as what you said but I think it's more general, and that's what I believe you've been doing the first part of the game: trying to make people look bad without really giving reads. Couple that with a defeatist and pessimistic attitude, and it fits an archetype of a scum trying to make people demoralized, which is why I think you are scummy, and why I think that you stopping to do all of this when called out on it is doubly scummy.

[Luca Blight]

Kerset, I’m still curious about this:

@Kerset, I only have experience with Skitt as a mod, so I dont know what I make of the rest of her play. It feels curt and snippy, but that could be NAI.

Early game is the least indicative phase but for some reason you make your SR based around that. If you have at least mediocre confidence that he is scum, you should be able to read him farther. Especially someone with 140 posts like Skitter.

*sigh* VOTE: Billy

What’s with the *sigh* before voting Billy? Are you voting him reluctantly or something?

[Luca Blight]

Kerset - if you continue to only talk about things related to yourself then you will end up lynched, I’m pretty sure. If you are Town then try to focus on finding scum. If you don’t at least display some level of scum-hunting then you’re not giving me the chance to townread you.

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon. I feel that its actually initial reason of my wagon(?). Meantime the other topics are spec/mech talk and me, so i don't think that i can artificially create a case to talk about. If there was any non PGA lead that i missed feel free to correct me.

You are free to create your own topics.

Glancing at your meta, you actually have played with your suspect, Billy, before. You were both Town in that game, how does he compare here?

[Kerset]

I feel that i voted bc people force me to rather then bc i want to.

[Luca Blight]

So you didn’t really believe in the reasoning you provided along with the vote, then?

[nomnomnom]

I feel that i voted bc people force me to rather then bc i want to.

That's very sad to he-

Draft choice is such huge source of information. With double role pick {8,9,10,11} are able to find out which roles were taken by top players. It's obv that both {9,10} are scum.
VOTE: Aaron

i don't feel any need to defend myself. the fact that you focus solely on the first part of my content where i simply say i'm backreading the game that took 4 days to finally open, which i forgot about in that time is much more relevant to me than any concern for your accusation.

you know why? because you didn't even attach a vote or even apply a scumread. you just said, "sure, you forgot" and left it at that

and now the only content you're providing is to _defend yourself_ where previously all you did was talk mechanics, and complain about the state of the town's game - with no effort to improve the state of the town.

Why did you assume that i disagree with anything else? You state that i provide no content. Were would you read that there was anything else that was bothering me?
Even if you somehow guessed that i disliked one of your opinions, why would i comment a statement, which is one sentence long? It was obvious that you only glanced on topic so far, because you gave no arguments to discuss about.

I won't vote people every single time i ask them a question.

you're more concerned about how you appear than in solving the game, it's obvious.

You beg Aaron and wooper to backup you with votes - you are the one concerned about your appearance. For what other reason would you need votes on me right now? Especially the one, which came out of sympathy. I am not on L-2, so all you can get here is good look.

VOTE: rb

Uuuuuuuh...

[Sirfetchd]

@skitt: Yeah we've played a few times. But it's a HUGE SECRET who I am.

[Kerset]

Kerset - if you continue to only talk about things related to yourself then you will end up lynched, I’m pretty sure. If you are Town then try to focus on finding scum. If you don’t at least display some level of scum-hunting then you’re not giving me the chance to townread you.

The main topic of this game is previous game analysis. Its hard to deeply participate in this, when you haven't played with suspects and shallow shading is looked upon. I feel that its actually initial reason of my wagon(?). Meantime the other topics are spec/mech talk and me, so i don't think that i can artificially create a case to talk about. If there was any non PGA lead that i missed feel free to correct me.

You are free to create your own topics.

Glancing at your meta, you actually have played with your suspect, Billy, before. You were both Town in that game, how does he compare here?

He was a Mason and he was supported by a decent player, i expect him to be different here.

So you didn’t really believe in the reasoning you provided along with the vote, then?

I believe in it but Rb is the one who should be lynched today.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, can you summarize your reasons for why rb should be today’s Lynch?

[nomnomnom]

If rb is the person that should be lynched today why are you conceding on Billy, out of all people?

[Wooper]

Sirf is Elli btw

[Wooper]

oops that was meant for the scum pt :$ :$

[Sirfetchd]

What the duck!

I said it was a secret alt.

[rb]

k, same 4 people posting about the same stuff i see

past my bedtime as well so im goin 2 sleep

it miffs me that a full 9 slots in this game are barely playing, but at the very least there's 4 relatively active people all up who are providing opinions

i won't lynch from skitter, luca or nom today

[Something_Smart]

I feel that i voted bc people force me to rather then bc i want to.

Who forced you to vote?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I'm having posting problems so near with me:

@Luca on 762-
Man, I was thinking you were town earlier, but now I'm not sure. I think I've lynched actual scum maybe 3 or 4 times in my multiple months playing here. And I drove the bus on one of them and it was based on how the player sheeped a vote on D1. In all my late day plays I guess wrong on who the last scum is. And you described my town game as good? What are you talking about? I think you happened to see that newbie game where I got Spangled but that's literally the only time I got scum right. So for you to characterize my town game as good feels wrong. TW and Kerset were in a game where some of the dead people thought I was obvtown, but I dont even do a good job of that when I'm trying to play that way normally. Now Luca, that point about my questions feeling shallow, I've heard that one before, and its during my town games. How were they shallow though? I was looking forward progressions and giving people a chance to explain inconsistencies. If I was looking to just jump on it, couldn't I have hopped on Aaron?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Kerset - I'm admitting to you that I dont have anything from the mid game that leans me scum or town with Skitt. And where did I say I had moderate confidence that she was scum? But I think this is an unfair characterization. While I had voted Skitt early, I also invited her to pursue Suji again later. It was when Skitt caught back up and got the timeline from earlier wrong where it looked like to me she was characterizing my vote on her as an OMGUS vote when it felt much more accurate to call her vote on me that. If anything, I'm moving her closer to null at the moment. UNVOTE: Skitt
Is this a disagreement between us where you think that a D1 vote signifies a level of confidence that i dont ascribe to it? I mean I remember feeling off about you last game, and it was probably Micc that assuaged my concerns, is that what's happening again?

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Something_Smart now is safe for at least today because of 766. I think it's the first person that got the reference.@S_S - why is me being dead last a factor? Do you really hate Steven Gerrard that much? Ok, this got answered later. Kinda what I figured just wanted to make sure. It's funny. I literally played this game because I wanted to play as a pr. I liked my game with Micc a ton. Then my draft position came in and i was mad because first Virgil failed me, then Stevie G himself blasted a shot into the sky.

Maybe aiming for the least interesting prs saved me though. . .

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Xayah - what information do you feel like persuaded you? And arent you Maria? Why would you trust other's meta reads when we played as scum together? And how are you reading Luca, because it seems like hes the only person that gave information.

@Luca -definitely got me with the not bussing type. I dont think its strategically optimal. My scum game hasn't much evolved from the theory articles I read and they were strongly anti-bussing.

@Skitt - you keep saying I came to opposite conclusions from your 50. Show me that. Show me where I ever liked your 50? I thought Suji had a bad response (side note, wtf happened to Suji?) Why is it a flip in positions for me to be concerned about a bad response to a bad post?

[Something_Smart]

@Something_Smart now is safe for at least today because of 766. I think it's the first person that got the reference.

Lol.

[Xayah]

Hm, the Billy wagon isn't bad. Not my first choice from my notes but the information is good enough for me to join
VOTE: Billy

What other notes do you have?

What do you think of Kerset? It pings me how you’ve just ignored this slot considering the attention it’s received.

Well, you must’ve missed my post considering I outlined why I townread Kerset. So the reason I ‘ping’ you isn’t really valid. Unless you want more on the slot. Which I can iso dive again and tell you why Kerset is town but that seems like a waste of my time.
A few other keynotes I have is nomnom asking a lot but I don’t get a ton of townpings from the gameplay. It leaves a lot to be desired.
Whooper is a townlean for not being obvious scum in 5 posts. Although I heard his scum game got better.

I don't like this Billy wagon, it comes out of nowhere and is lacking in substance, at least the way I see it. The argument is completely meta-driven as well so I am unconvinced, why are people joining this wagon?

Who are the scum driving this wagon in your eyes? Just saying you don’t like a wagon that much isn’t really going to do much to stop it.

I'd actually argue that someone who is 100% logically consistent about their votes and their positions is more likely to be scum depending on their experience level.

Oh big time, scum don’t like holes in her arguments 9/10 times

[Xayah]

I sense that Billy isn’t the bussing type, so I don’t think he and Skitter are partners, but I would like to know exactly who Skitter wants to be lynched today.

This is bad logic and you know it.

@Xayah - what information do you feel like persuaded you? And arent you Maria? Why would you trust other's meta reads when we played as scum together? And how are you reading Luca, because it seems like hes the only person that gave information.

Can you link the game we played scum together in? It escapes me at the moment. Yes I’m Maria. I think the way the wagon popped up on you is super interesting and you’re one of the blank spots in my reads at the moment. Your wagon would help me with a lot of other flips at the moment.
Luca is that obvious town who you ignore read wise because his logic doesn’t add up and it’s clear he’s not someone who likes to listen to reason. He’s quite stubborn so you just nod along to what he says without really listening. (Yes this is me dissing Luca)