Newbie 1962 | (Game Over)

[eth0s]

Official Vote Count 1.18

Lynching

With 9 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Formerfish

(2): alimdia, Yodavader

Farren

(2): TheGildedSun, Radja

Yodavader

(1): Geyde

alimdia

(1): Formerfish

TheGildedSun

(1): faüstiv

Radja

(1): Farren

Not Voting

(1): EspeciallyTheLies

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-03 12:50:00).

Mod notes:

n/a[/area]

[Farren]

She does mention curiosity in 21, yes, but nothing in these 3 responses suggests curiosity to me.

I took Gilded's confusion at the random voting to be a cultural thing - it's the way things are done here and where I come from. Encountered that same attitude in my last game here.

As far as curiosity goes ... I see questions, but there is a tonal thing going on. Answering your own questions definitely doesn't imply curiosity. Cultural confusion certainly could, but that's NAI. That third quote definitely rings more of panic than curiosity. I agree with this assessment.

TheGildedSun also never asks Farren a question.

She does - take another look at 202. I answered in 214.

293 she outs a readlist with reasonings which read as flimsy at best.

293 - the passivity post. I could see this as going either way. It could be a genuine belief as Town - that aggression is scummy. Or it could be that Gilded plays as passive scum and is trying to focus suspicion on the more aggressive players. What do you see as being flimsy here?

Fair enough, but Chibiie has literally been on three hot wagons this game, yet TheGildedSun hasn't voted them once. She actually TR's Chiibie even though she thinks jumping on wagons is scummy.

This is another good point.

359 she thinks Farren and Yoda are the team, which to me seems like a weird progression, given that she had outted no read on Yoda previously.

She'd called for opinions on Yoda in general back in 329. I see stating Yoda as "questionable" back in 293.

The call for opinion is the only attempt I see to sort Yoda. Does kinda feel like going with the flow, though.

[Formerfish]

Spoiler:

want to explain my GildedSun vote a bit more.

So Sun thought my vote on her was scummy (14, 20, 21) and at the time her tone seemed more likely to come from town than scum, but since then there has been some inconsistencies in her play.

In 115 she places a vote on Gdoooog, putting him at L2

178:

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote

I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious?

I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

This contradicts her tone in her earlier posts when I placed my vote.

First of all, I'd like to propose the question: that being why? What have I done to raise your suspicions of me? Nothing. I have had yet to post and you've already wrongly accused me of being scum.

That's not what I meant... I'm just struggling to understand why people are random voting. To me it seems like a rather inefficient manner of eliminating the mafia, and with faüstiv's vote it only raises my suspicions of them, after all a common mafia tactic is to vote for an innocent to get leverage over the town not only at night but also at day via lynch.

Voting me out will only assist the Mafia in gaining leverage as I swear to you I am town aligned... I will not Role Claim unless you absolutely require me to do so in order to "prove" my innocence, especially as it is advised against in means of narrowing down town, but I am ever so happy to cooperate.

I appear "nervous" as I do not wish to be voted out, especially on D1 of such a long game.

She does mention curiosity in 21, yes, but nothing in these 3 responses suggests curiosity to me.

202 looks like scum blending in, giving their thoughts on Farren whilst also providing no real thoughts on Farren. Farren was the hot topic at this stage of the game. Why would TheGildedSun feel compelled to make this statement as town:

I dont have any judgement on Farren, but if I had to state an opinion on him it's kind of vague. I mean, he said a lot of things on page 6 without a whole lot of backing. He's asked a lot of questions, so honestly I believe we should return the favor and ask him some things too.

TheGildedSun also never asks Farren a question.

293 she outs a readlist with reasonings which read as flimsy at best. Considering the fact that I intentionally didn't respond to TheGildedSun after she asked me a question to see if the slot would squirm more, this seems like a really odd progression given she was accusing me so early on. I'm a safe TR for scum to make because I'm a difficult lynch today. Same for ETL. She outs a scumread on FormerFish (a player who has received a lot of heat in this game) again giving really weak reasoning behind the vote. There are reasons to SR FF, but I don't think the reasoning she gave and the post she quoted (120) is a post which would definitively convince someone that that person is scum.

299:

specifically against Faust left a bad taste in my mouth. The types of people who appear desperate to convince everyone else that a certain person is mafia always stick out like a sore thumb. These two people that I have mentioned, Faust and ETL, are both open minded, listen to the other players, but don't automatically jump onto a wagon without reasoning. (Which is often associated with scum behavior, as it can be an easy way to get a townsperson killed in the day.)

Fair enough, but Chibiie has literally been on three hot wagons this game, yet TheGildedSun hasn't voted them once. She actually TR's Chiibie even though she thinks jumping on wagons is scummy.

339 she votes Farren.

359 she thinks Farren and Yoda are the team, which to me seems like a weird progression, given that she had outted no read on Yoda previously.

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

[faüstiv]

just outting my reasoning.

[faüstiv]

honestly not comfortable with any of the lynch choices today. Yodavader is the one I'd pick to lynch out of the 4 even though I don't see him flipping scum.

We've got 2 days left anyway.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

Yes I asked him.

[Formerfish]

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

Yes I asked him.

Ok, i missed that. It doesnt feel as out of place knwoing that.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

With 9 living players it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Formerfish (2):

alimdia

, Yodavader

Farren (2):

TheGildedSun, Radja

Yodavader (1): Geyde

alimdia

(1): Formerfish

TheGildedSun

(1):

faüstiv

Radja

(1): Farren

coloring added by me indicating my conftown reads

What does this say to you, @everyone?

I'm ok with giving yoda a pass for today, to be honest. reviewing his last town game, i feel a lot better about his posting here. in turn, this makes farren, fish & geyde worse off on the scale. BUT I'm feeling that fish is more likely town given the points I mentioned about his wagon - there is zero fight.

but there IS a fight against the farren wagon. look:

fish wagon

- has a strong town read leading it, with a slight townread following. not scum driven.

farren

- has 2 strong town reads leading it. not scum driven

Yoda

- the moment I voted here, geyde followed for ??? reasons. possibly scum driven

alimdia

- single vote by fish, who appears to be disconnected from the game for non-game reasons. not scum driven

gilded

- strong town read being singley voted by another strong town read, who I believe is mistaken. not scum driven

radja

- strong town read being voted by leading wagon, for ??? reasons. possibly scum driven.

So, two possibly scum driven wagons led by Geyde and Farren, in counter to a wagon on one of those two. This is classic mafia theory at play.

VOTE: farren

[faüstiv]

I don't see Farren flipping scum.

Also I'm not as confident as most people are that the Chiibie slot is town.

[faüstiv]

I could see scum being Chiibie slot/GildedSun

[faüstiv]

Like I see a lot of genuine gamesolve posts from Farren and I don't ever see it flipping scum. If anything he's my strongest TR.

[faüstiv]

With the amount of similar reads players have shared at similar points during the game, I can definitely see scum hiding amongst them making the same reads.

Like why has no one but Fish questioned me?

Why are me, ETL, Radja, Chiibie universal TR's?

Why are Fish, Yoda, Farren universal scumreads?

Scum are manipulating this.

[faüstiv]

does no one else find it strange that outside the 'scumpool' of fish, farren, yoda that everyone's reads align EXACTLY the same?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

does no one else find it strange that outside the 'scumpool' of fish, farren, yoda that everyone's reads align EXACTLY the same?

Not here, no. You have to learn how to town hunt just as well as you scumhunt. A town block, if true, is one of the best weapons we have against scum. I can tell you without a doubt you are way off on gilded and chibiie. Try again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I accept you are entitled to your reads. You are free to continue scumreading them but do me a favor, a little experiment. Assume for a moment both are confirmed town. How do your reads change?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

With the amount of similar reads players have shared at similar points during the game, I can definitely see scum hiding amongst them making the same reads.

Like why has no one but Fish questioned me?

Why are me, ETL, Radja, Chiibie universal TR's?

Why are Fish, Yoda, Farren universal scumreads?

Scum are manipulating this.

This post is a perfect example of why I believe 100% you are town here. These are great observations and questions.

Imo those 3 are PoE reads for the most part. I know why I think those people are being townread. Why are you townreading them?

[alimdia]

@ETL, can you link me that Yoda game you were talking about? So I can have a look too?

@Faust, I think only ETL stands out as a universal townread? Also, I've replaced chiibie
If a lot of people (say 4-5) think ETL is a townread, it seems more logical to think that he is town, because there is only 2 scum out there, rather than scum manipulating the reads.

Regarding how Fish is a universal scumread, I'm not sure if its really universal. There are people defending him, but if you look at his points, he hasn't really been 'trying'.
Look at his last 10 or so posts. He even ignored my question here and just said I was 'iioa' (which I had to go look at the wiki for):

Hi guys,
ETl voted for GildedSun at 6:53am, saying that it was a real vote. They had a resolution shortly after and ETL retracted the vote at 8:13am. I realise our timezones
are most likely different, but thats still 1 hour 20 mins apart. In that time, Fish hasn't posted anything, and thus follows my argument.
In #58, Fish said that he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off, in that case why didn't Fish defend GildedSun within that time?
If fish wasn't online, then how is it possible that "he read the other push as being on newb town before ETL backed off". I think his was more likely
mentioned after the fact to cover up for his 'town push' slip in #41. Fish is an experienced player though however?

ETL actually thinks that Fish is town, but I'm not so sure about that. Because not putting in effort could be both town or scum tells.
ETL also thinks that Yoda is 'null' (using Yoda's term lol) after reviewing his last town game, which I would also like to have a look at.

@Faust, you said that GildedSun never asked Farren a question, but that has been proven wrong. Does that change your argument at all? Also, why am I scum?
At this point sitting alone on a GildedSun wagon isn't helping anyone.
Same with Fish being on me from before I replaced in.

@Farren, I'm gonna answer your question later after more reading. At this point, I'm not quite ready to put you on L-1

[alimdia]

Man looking through Chibiie's posts again (Actually there are a lot of them than I remembered and I'll be starting from #131.)
So in #131 he thinks that GildedSun is newb-scum. Only thing is that this could be newbscum or newbtown.

Note that in #135, with ETL painted at obvtown, Fish and Farren as runner-ups. Regarding that post, I don't agree with that post at all. Maybe its because that was on Oct 26 and it's now Nov 1,
but the structure of that is weird too.

Farren/Formerfish both runner-ups, I don't see much interactions in between them, but they're both talkative. Sitting in different wagons, while picking at the same target (faüstiv).

So I really like faüstiv and I believe that ETL, from an objective point of view, can be seen as obvtown.

Specifically this part where he says that he really likes faust, I can't tell if he meant he likes faust as a lynch, or faust as a town read. I'm choosing to believe the latter.



Looking through this, I noticed that Fish voted Chibs on post #227 for a reason that has since been proven wrong (ignoring direct question) and his vote is still on me.

I'm not sure if I agree with Chibiie's posting about people being alive on D3 or not, that just creates up WIFOMs, that is definitely not how I think.

[alimdia]

I've got some Halloween stuff going on today so I won't be around much. Just wanted to point out I'm happy with alimdia's content so far.

I have only skimmed Farren's last few posts but I'm likely voting there once I can find some time to properly read them through.

What part specifically about my content are you happy about?

[alimdia]

@Farren, who would you willing to lynch out of {Yoda, Fish, Geyde} if your Radja wagon isn't happening?

@Farren, in addition to #392, I'll like to add that in #245, Chibiie townleans Radja. I'm not too keen on that just because Radja posted a wall that aligns with what Chibiie said.
My playstyle is that I rarely have more than 1-2 solid town reads at a time.

[alimdia]

@ETL, I assume you were talking about Newbie 1959. I'll have a read about that later.

[Yodavader]

So, for those asking, 1959 (Stuff I found online) was my other game.

I have been thinking about who Fish's scumbuddy could be and out of all the others, I can imagine it would be Gilded.

Using my own personal experience, in my first ever game of Mafia (WotC boards), I rolled scum and used the newb card all the way to victory. Every scummy thing I did, everyone chalked it up to me not knowing what was going on. Granted, I don't think I was as jumpy as Gilded was at the start. So, I have been reevaluating that slot and could see Gilded flip red. So, she get's my first ever

FoS: Gilded

on these boards.

I can follow what Faustiv says here. post 371

Spoiler:

want to explain my GildedSun vote a bit more.

So Sun thought my vote on her was scummy (14, 20, 21) and at the time her tone seemed more likely to come from town than scum, but since then there has been some inconsistencies in her play.

In 115 she places a vote on Gdoooog, putting him at L2

178:

I assume there is no use for this but when I received the initial vote

I actually wasn't panic-stricken, that was not where my response was coming from. I was much more curious?

I didn't know random votes on D1 were a common practice and I actually thought the vote on me was fascinating in a way, because to my beliefs at the time there was no valid reason to suspect me. Which I later was told why I had been voted, just as a random vote for the reason to get people to talk/open up. (Which would then lead into reads) I've gotten myself into hot water due to my peculiar response and now I know I can't really do anything to justify myself at the moment other than watch it all play out.

This contradicts her tone in her earlier posts when I placed my vote.

First of all, I'd like to propose the question: that being why? What have I done to raise your suspicions of me? Nothing. I have had yet to post and you've already wrongly accused me of being scum.

That's not what I meant... I'm just struggling to understand why people are random voting. To me it seems like a rather inefficient manner of eliminating the mafia, and with faüstiv's vote it only raises my suspicions of them, after all a common mafia tactic is to vote for an innocent to get leverage over the town not only at night but also at day via lynch.

Voting me out will only assist the Mafia in gaining leverage as I swear to you I am town aligned... I will not Role Claim unless you absolutely require me to do so in order to "prove" my innocence, especially as it is advised against in means of narrowing down town, but I am ever so happy to cooperate.

I appear "nervous" as I do not wish to be voted out, especially on D1 of such a long game.

She does mention curiosity in 21, yes, but nothing in these 3 responses suggests curiosity to me.

202 looks like scum blending in, giving their thoughts on Farren whilst also providing no real thoughts on Farren. Farren was the hot topic at this stage of the game. Why would TheGildedSun feel compelled to make this statement as town:

I dont have any judgement on Farren, but if I had to state an opinion on him it's kind of vague. I mean, he said a lot of things on page 6 without a whole lot of backing. He's asked a lot of questions, so honestly I believe we should return the favor and ask him some things too.

TheGildedSun also never asks Farren a question.

293 she outs a readlist with reasonings which read as flimsy at best. Considering the fact that I intentionally didn't respond to TheGildedSun after she asked me a question to see if the slot would squirm more, this seems like a really odd progression given she was accusing me so early on. I'm a safe TR for scum to make because I'm a difficult lynch today. Same for ETL. She outs a scumread on FormerFish (a player who has received a lot of heat in this game) again giving really weak reasoning behind the vote. There are reasons to SR FF, but I don't think the reasoning she gave and the post she quoted (120) is a post which would definitively convince someone that that person is scum.

299:

specifically against Faust left a bad taste in my mouth. The types of people who appear desperate to convince everyone else that a certain person is mafia always stick out like a sore thumb. These two people that I have mentioned, Faust and ETL, are both open minded, listen to the other players, but don't automatically jump onto a wagon without reasoning. (Which is often associated with scum behavior, as it can be an easy way to get a townsperson killed in the day.)

Fair enough, but Chibiie has literally been on three hot wagons this game, yet TheGildedSun hasn't voted them once. She actually TR's Chiibie even though she thinks jumping on wagons is scummy.

339 she votes Farren.

359 she thinks Farren and Yoda are the team, which to me seems like a weird progression, given that she had outted no read on Yoda previously.

Was this asked for or are you just tmiing about your vote now?

I think this is kinda weird. Why does someone have to give a reason to continue scumhunting? Again, it seems to me that you are trying to stop an investigation.

[faüstiv]

does no one else find it strange that outside the 'scumpool' of fish, farren, yoda that everyone's reads align EXACTLY the same?

Not here, no. You have to learn how to town hunt just as well as you scumhunt. A town block, if true, is one of the best weapons we have against scum. I can tell you without a doubt you are way off on gilded and chibiie. Try again.

Do you not find GildedSun’s progression to be weird?

She’s even admitted to playing mafia before and knows what bussing is etc. It could just be an act like Yodavader suggested.

I think you’re townreading TheGildedSun far too easily at this stage.

[faüstiv]

I accept you are entitled to your reads. You are free to continue scumreading them but do me a favor, a little experiment. Assume for a moment both are confirmed town. How do your reads change?

If they were locktown obviously I’d re-evaluate my reads.

I don’t think Farren ever flips scum though.

[faüstiv]

Chibiie jumped on 3 bandwagons and wanted to speed up the game. That to me is not town motivated, especially when his vote on FormerFish which put him on L1 was made when Gdoooog was still in the game.