Open 767: Nomination Mafia [Day 7]

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I'm scared that scum is going to realize that they're outed and start calling me scum or some dumb shit and town's going to lap it up since they've already managed to townread him even though he's objectively obviously scum ???

[RadiantCowbells]

yall should feel hella disrespected by scum

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like for so many reasons the solve this game is Joey and Menalque

I'm going to actually start casing that now but I think you guys have all been going after the townies who do shiny mislynchable things instead of going after actual scum.

I really don't feel like PK's replace out comes from scum and their interactions with Titus spew them town imo. I don't think GL's iso is likely to be scum but I've considered it. Suji is town by play. I know I'm town. NorwegianEE has a chance of being scum but I think it's more likely that he's town for /reasons/ particularly given that the person who knew them from offsite townread them and it feels too in your face for scum!Titus to be all yeah let's lynch correspondence without considering her partner at the start.

That leaves the slots that you guys are townreading for weird reasons even though they have terrible associatives with each other, Joey has awful Titus associatives, and they really haven't done anything to be TR for?

[RadiantCowbells]

Kinda doubt that joey and Titus are the same alignment based on their interactions around the bottom of p2 into p3

like there's shit like this all over the thread that reads as cheeky scumbuds but anyway I'm going to organize and present my case.

I am _tremendously_ more certain that Joey is scum but I feel it's advantageous to out both reads because they're both immediately going to turn on my slot if they're scum together and I call out Joey and I need to establish that they are both my scumreads so that they can't use "yeah but BOTH universal townreads scumread you all of a sudden after your replace in" and since your reads are already trash as a collective you might listen to them.

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually kinda had this read from the point of PK's replace out and I considered replacing in earlier but I figured if I took PK's slot I'd just get mislynched in the process.
Awoo was transparently town. I hate playing scum. I have an insanely good read record and I wouldn't have taken this slot unless I wasn't locksure on them being town.
If you need me to help show you why my slot is town I can do that separately but my slot's alignment really shouldn't be in question atp.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also fundamentally I know Titus's gameplay better than any other player on site does and I know what her SvS associatives look like and do not look like.
This isn't in dispute, I have been known for several years for being able to have an instant 100% read on her slots in any of her games and to quickly suss out her scumbuddies through her iSO.

Joey<->Titus is SvS period.

[RadiantCowbells]

As for Menalque, it just makes a lot of sense with what I see the gameplay as. Anyway, actual case to follow.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yeah again it's suboptimal for me to out both scumreads because otherwise I might see one in the lynchpool tomorrow trying to townspew themselves
but I have at least 2 confident townreads and as a result we're not losing this game to not good enough reads. we lose this game it's because I couldn't get the lynches to actually land on scum. and outing everything I have is the best chance of convincing town that both your top townreads are scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm gonna preempt the fact that I'm talking "to town". I still feel like an outsider in this town and I'm talking to everyone else. I'm competent enough to not make that "slip" as scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hard to motivate myself to do hard work zzz

[RadiantCowbells]

@Titus&PK: Mutant's read is way too abysmal to come from scum

So starting point would actually be on a Joey post
this kind of post is insanely scumbuddy present indicative and points the most to 1t1s imo but could conceivably be 2s. it's extremely unlikely to be a town post.
when you're talking about TMI reads, particularly with the emoticon at the end, this is like the dictionary definition of a TMI read and the @s and the general structure also heavily point to it being a scumpost

Pk, is Joey scum or derp town? The pain meds are fogging me.

Pk, is Joey scum or derp town? The pain meds are fogging me.

Implying I am "derp" is still shading and discrediting my slot, so why do you scumread mutant's post

then these are hilariously obviously S-S. why is Titus randomly singling out Joey to ask people whether he's derptown or scum on the second page. even not knowing that Titus was scum you should be considering a potential S-S pairing solely off of this post alone and with the flip this should have been the first slot lynched based off of both these interactions. i'll comment on you guys backing off Joey later

ALso the fact that of Titus/Joey iso together first 15 posts 10 of them are interacting with each other heavily points to them being a S-S pairing whereas the way that Titus tries to pocket and townbeardify PK and gets mad that he votes her on day 2 strongly points to that being a T-S interaction.

Kinda doubt that joey and Titus are the same alignment

What about the exchange is SvsT?

Why can't we be both town?

just reads super cheeky but yeah although i don't think it's impossible for Menalque to be a townie here

Kinda doubt that joey and Titus are the same alignment

What about the exchange is SvsT?

Why can't we be both town?

+1, I don't like Joey's reaction but that doesn't make him scum. It could be a personality clash.

Why can't we be both town?

Do you think titus is town?

She's being sloppy so yes, most likely she's town

over many years of mafia play i've seen many scumbuddy interaction patterns and one really common one is the argue about a read and come to the conclusion that it's a t-t disagreement
this reads exactly like many of them that i've seen over that time and just in general isn't great. like, "she's being sloppy so she's town"? you think that's a town post?

VOTE: Menalque

So you think that both pisskop and I are town?

What does my vote has to do with my read on both of you?

Also I said I didn't find anyone particularly mefia-y but I am being cautious. I think the case on you is terrible and people are already getting biased towards your answers (Awoo)

BTW I will be honest considering mutant is L-1 but IMO his responses are pretty much textbook town as far as I am concerned but YMMV

Awoo is also pretty blatant town

more tmi posting

note the complete absence of any concretely laid out reasons to townread at this point altho they do come up
also note the complete absence of any attempt to change town's trajectory onto mutantdevle. he's willing to brush off all these disagreements with YMMV. that's not town Joey, town joey would defend his townreads. this is really textbook scum who wants to look towny for the defense and GL saying he townreads him for this white knighting ????????? later in the game makes me wonder if they can't be SvS because how do you have that read lol

then we eventually get to his case

I just skimmed mutant's last scum game
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=30609

And honestly his posts are significantly different than his posts in this game. Inb4 I am wrong and I look silly post game but, tone reading is basically one of my strength (and weakness) and mutant post's as scum are unsubstantial, shows no emotions (classic s tell) and he's seen constantly doubting himself & taking stances meant for posturizing (like half reads, non-comital stuff, asking himself questions etc). Also, in his scum posts, its very obvious that he's shading people left and right which is scum agenda.

Mutant is obviously someone who can express himself very well which offer some sort of distance from his writing style and his emotions. In this game tho, the way he showed emotions was when he cranked his own posts when he felt pressure, which he recognized himself. His walls this game imo almost never showed agenda; everytime he outed a read he nuanced it and, irrc, didn't discredit someone for the sake of discrediting (like he did as scum).

Spoiler: Exemples of his scum shades

"are you claiming that your role enables you to unlock people's 2nd role PM, aka their quest PM? Because the quest flavour is what is listen as 2nd for me.

Or are you just being dumb

and actually mean this"

His wording is non-comital he's offering an "out" to whoever hes investigating, which is a read that comes off as non-agressive since being dumb is NA

"Oof varsoon. Are you going to be posting like that all game? Gotta be honest here I but I found your post just a little irritating. My biggest gripe is how you criticise a lot of people for doing NAI stuff and fluff posts yet a large part of your post has a lot of fluffy stuff in it. Like, if your post is THAT large, and you expect people to actually read it, surely you'd keep your own fluff to a minimum?"

His wording is non-comital, trying not to comes off as having a strong read. That's probably his worse post that I skim

"I can't help but feel there are slight undertones of someone who doesn't want to be investigated here. Do millers usually claim early in the game? I don't have much experience with them."

His wording is non-comital and his read is implied. After outing his read, he's admitting mechanic ignorance which decrease the tone of his read yet still shades a slot

Spoiler: His shades/answers this game

"A large majority of people prefer playing as town. So it's statistically likely that you too prefer playing town. Hence, if you're saying you think your alignment is crappy, you're admitting that you are mafia?
VOTE: pisskop"

Committal wording, he's not using wording where he's 2nd guessing himself, he's offering no out

"this is a pretty strong conclusion to come to. So I must ask how serious this conclusion is? It seems odd to me that anyone could be so closed-minded this early into the game."

Implied read using words that are NAI and he's offering an out "early game". This fits his sucm posting but the wording is much different IMO. He's not using 2nd guessing wording and close-minded is much less discrediting of someone's character than "dumb" is

"Also, I'd like you to justify your statements that I'm A) Tryharding and B) trying to blend in. Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive but they are pretty damn close."

Non-comittal wording, implied read and you can argue he's offering an out. Again this could fit his scum posting but I feel the wording/tone is much different

"Your issue is that you're treating my vote as RVS. I've already explained that it was not an RVS vote. It was a calculated and intentional vote albeit with reasons I didn't genuinely believe - this had the sole intention of generating content. Until that point nobody had said anything meaningful.
Why does making an early vote that uses effort and logic instead of just near randomness make me scum? It shows an element of tryharding, sure. But what about that is inherently scummy?"

Here he is answering a post shading him, but not once did he shade or imply a read toward that person in any way, there's no scum agenda and he's engaging the content of the post. IMO, if he was scum w/ the meta from the linked game, he probably would've sliped a few shading comments in there

"You're saying a lot of things about me here that I agree with yet I still don't understand how you come to the conclusion I am scum. Yes I took issue with the position in the game (in that nothing of substance was being said). Yes I am incredibly self-aware. Yes I have primarily a logical approach to things. And yes I was trying to be useful and proactive. So what I don't understand is why all of those things are bad? Or at the very least, why you think they are bad? I consider all of those traits to be positive, or at the very least neutral, so the only reason I can see that you'd suspect me for displaying them is if you think I'm faking them. Until your most recent posts, it really did not seem like that was what you were accusing me of. So am I right in saying that the reason you are currently scum reading me is because you think my blatant display of those traits is me faking and overselling them?"

Same as above

"I don't see what town motivation there is to purposely stunt my ability to read you."

This is his first kinda shade towards pk after like 2 wall posts and a half which shows town POV because he's saying he's having a hard time reading PK, its coherent with someone who just had a huge conversation and didn't imply a read on them.

Its pretty blatant this is mutant's town game

this is obvious tmi. if you don't see it i don't know how to explain it to you so i'd prefer you just BOP me on this read because it's obviously scum and i'm that confident in it. etc. townies don't talk about "doesn't show agenda", or some of the other phrasings that are used in this post for the townread. this isn't a town read. there's no real read development, this is scum trying to come up with reasons to call someone town.

IMO we should flip correspondence, i dont expect any good content coming from them

this isn't the kind of thing town says. "dont expect any good content" says nothing about alignment, it says something about the quality of content and that conflation is very common in scumposting

i do want to point out that I've heavily considered NorwegianEE as scum because both Titus and Chandler go into this day phase going after Correspondence and that makes complete sense if NorwegianEE and Titus are SvS with Joey third but yeah I'm not entirely certain on last scum and much more certain on Joey and etc etc. also there's the fact that shortly after Chandler does vote NorwegianEE instead but yea he ends up deciding that he's town moments later and this is still while correspondence is absent and seems like a free mislynch as an empty slot anyway I don't really need to go into that but point is chandler is scums

I'm going to skip quotes regarding Joey's progression on Titus from here, but Joey is kinda a really egotistical town player and he doesn't really talk about people that he can't read cuz he thinks that he can read anyone at least outwardly. he doesn't really have the self awareness to say that he can't read titus as a player and the fact that he repeatedly calls her town while repeatedly softening his responsibility for her mislynch by saying that he can't read her (but still defending her!) doesn't look good at all.

Honestly I don't really mind lynching either Titus or nEE; Titus is a slot i historically can't read properly and nEE voided his right to live with the hammer & their content are pretty irrelevant

like he says shit like this to try to look middle ground and he argues it after the day phase but the reality is he was the single strongest opposition in the game to titus getting lynched that phase.

Ive seen scum PM and I am thinking hes town

Do people tell you your reads are bad a lot?

Never post game

Referring to the PM read moreso but why and this also feels like a TMI read

Okay and imagine flipping a town titus on lynchpool day, pretty fucking bad uh?

Flipping a slot who objectively anti-towned and, imo, has one of the worst iso on the whole table on lynchpool day is a GAIN for town because that slot wouldve been pushed regardless if pool day or not

Still just really really awful

I'd point out here the INSANE amount of interactions with Menalque but I'm not actually all that interested in elucidating on my Menalque inclusion in the Joey scumread so that's a read for another day

My read:
- Suji is town (more likely distribution of town)
- Suji said the truth

oh look another townread for really no reason.

Alright, I am going for Melanque scum, Joey and Awoo town (I hope they don't fight). Given my theory, Melanque's partners are average or newer.

I need to sit down with NEE and GL.

just eh

i'll get into this tomorrow after joey flips scum

@nEE I am a sucker for ate & your 677 most likely comes from town. Thing is, I still think you deserve the rope considering the pool

presumed correct townread on presumed town!ee but still justifying why he's voting town over scum.

Somehow I am starting to lean that GL might be the best flip, somehow. My guts says both titus/nEE are town meh

I am definitely townreading scum tho because 3 scums can't fit my reads

oh look: once again we have mr. joey defending titus while simultaneously lampshading the fact that he would have above average odds of being wrong on it so it can't be held against him as much.



I'm going to stop there: I can continue to point out how they're obviously SvS but I think if you haven't seen it here you're either scum refusing to see it or just terrible at mafia and continuing to explain this won't help further.

VOTE: Joey_

they're obviously scum, they're the lynch today, GL if you're town get out of your stupid PK tunnel and vote it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also the obvious read (and the obvious read is usually right) is that scum put Titus (who makes sense to be included in that pool) with Correspondence the lurker and NorwegianEE the quickhammerer because they assumed they could get the lynch on one of the townies and then later push the argument that since every slot included in the set of 3 was scummy as sin it probably didn't include any scum

there's other interpretations like 2s in the pool and it was meant to set up Titus for later after Norwegian flipped scum but Titus ended up being the one lynched but yeah
anyway. I don't want to commit too hard to the other scumread.

there's a saying that replacements are a blessing for the team that gets them because we get to see the game with fresh eyes. that's what i'm here to do.
and my reads are pretty damn amazing and i'm in a slot that it strains credulity to scumread so you should listen to me now

oh yeah another reason I scumread Joey is that he somehow could see that Mutantdevle was scum but thought Awoo was a deepwolf? like if he's smart enough to have that TR he's not a fucking nimrod who would SR my slot because you have to be a fucking nimrod to have SRed Awoo and I stand by that.

[chennisden]

DrCirno replaces pisskop.

[RadiantCowbells]

hello drcirno welcome to the party

[chennisden]

(expired on 2019-11-06 10:52:51) until D5 ends

I'll add an extra 48 hours due to the length of time it took to replace pisskop.

(expired on 2019-11-08 10:52:51) until D5 ends.

[RadiantCowbells]

oof

see you all in january

[RadiantCowbells]

i saw that chennis

[chennisden]

Expect your next votecount in like... December

In all seriousness VC tmrw

[RadiantCowbells]

btw in my initial read of the game i confidently townread every single town that you lynched to date

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm mad that drcirno didn't post

anyway gnight bois

[Joey_]

You suck at reading me, don't you

[Joey_]

0/2 in two subsequent game, I haven't read your your case but it was expected

[Joey_]

In post 45, Joey_ wrote:
@Titus&PK: Mutant's read is way too abysmal to come from scum


So starting point would actually be on a Joey post
this kind of post is insanely scumbuddy present indicative and points the most to 1t1s imo but could conceivably be 2s. it's extremely unlikely to be a town post.
when you're talking about TMI reads, particularly with the emoticon at the end, this is like the dictionary definition of a TMI read and the @s and the general structure also heavily point to it being a scumpost

dude, you are starting your long ass post trying to call me scum for a single post & I have meta on using emojis on RVS, if anything

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm calling you scum for hard defending Titus while screaming about how you can't read her.

[Joey_]

this is obvious tmi.

What is TMI? also my case literally came from town for town purposes, you are really clueless