Newbie 1961 | Trees II | Over

[DrDolittle]

im actually overall just still pretty confused.

[DrDolittle]

vork engage with me. do you find january independently scummy or is she scummy purely by association with skitter?

skitter who's vork's partner?

[Zenith]

VOTE: Vork L-1
@Vork
Please respond to #805.

Explain why the change?

What change?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.07

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Vorkuta

(3): skitter30, Karnage, Zenith

Zenith

(1): tictac

Karnage

(1): Vorkuta

skitter30

(1): january

Not Voting

(1): DrDolittle

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-05 07:45:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Plotinus]

january¹ has been prodded and has (expired on 2019-11-02 19:22:00) to post before I start looking for a replacement.

[january]

hi sorry just got the email

i've been catching up with this thread, just have a big paper due in a few hours and i promise i'll participate after this

UNVOTE:
i know vork's been using some shady logic but not really ready to vote him
will decide if anything's changed by noon tomorrow pacific time

[january]

or i guess it's noon today
whatever it's in like 10 hours

[january]

mandatory actual contribution post - or not

im actually overall just still pretty confused.

whenever i've played mafia, "i'm confused" was often a scumtell - as confused town, people tended to just put effort into un-confusing themselves, but mafia declares that they're confused (maybe to seem towny idk)

anyways that was heavy meta that might not even apply to this site but that's all the effort i have in me at this moment
promise i'll be back for real soon
don't end the day pls

[Vorkuta]

If January were to flip town, would you still be scum reading skitter?
If not, then do you think it could be better to lynch january instead of skitter?
If you would still scum read her, then who is her partner if jan flips town?

I think that skitter's scum!partner is gated until skitter hangs.
Looking back at it, I slightly regret making the gamestate skitter v. vork and can see how it's suboptimal to have such a 1v1 early on in D2, but I'm quite sure I've caught scum that it doesn't really matter.

But ok- let's hypothetically assume that BOTH skitter and I could be convinced to calm down for half a second (haaaaaa.... no) and stop being at each other's throats enough to scumhunt OUTSIDE vork v. skit
-Where would we start?
-

Skitter

the louder scum!partner will find creative ways to disrupt legitimate inquiries and have several red herrings/wild-goose-chases planned for us

Either way-

as I've probably said somewhere before

my jan push was primarily a way to see whether I could get a read on skitter.
Sure I thought december had scum!equity at the end of D1, but I realized that there was no way we'd get a consensus lynch going for her if she was actually scum.
The same applies to ~3 other people, so my gameplan was to try and scumhunt/PoE the influential/gamestate controlling players {tictac/skit/Zenith} which would allow for us to open up the lynchpool on D3.
Fortunately I think I've hit dirt with skitter, but if things would have gone differently and I legitimately had a town!read on her, I'd move on to a similar grilling of tictac. I'm glad I don't have to seeing as I've played most of my hand this round, but *shrugs*

Sorry what were the questions again?
Ah yes- skitter scum (is now)=> independent of jan thus
1- Jan town!flip -> Yes to scum!skitter flip
2- Skitter optimal flip today as you won't catch her scum!partner with her still alive
3-

this question's wording is painful- who's the first "her" again?

HYPOTHETICALLY if for some miraculous reason jan was the lynch today, I'd look into someone who isn't in control of the gamestate as skitter's scum partner- i.e DDL/Zenith
I'd be butthurt if 2 "loud and good" players managed to weasel their way in to everyone's core!town books while dictating gameflow, so I'm not considering that option.
It's skitter doing the heavy lifting, + someone quiet/playing catchup

[Vorkuta]

Oh shit- I literally just missed Jan chickening out on skitter right now.
Puzzle pieces fall in place.

reVOTE: Skitter

[Karnage]

neat thing about this particular game state is that there's really no reason for anybody to state intent before lynching. anybody not voting vorkuta could just hammer away and I wouldn't see it as scummy. I mean it would be courteous to do so but not necessary

I'm going to take a look at jan's ISO in the meantime

[DrDolittle]

Vork you didnt answer my question in is Jan independly scummy outside of skit scum to you.

[DrDolittle]

@ Jan I say I'm confused as town often so I iso myself to prove it. I did it in open 776, a redacted game and here in a marathon game super clearly
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
It's not an AI thing for me.

[Vorkuta]

Vork you didnt answer my question in is Jan independly scummy outside of skit scum to you.

Sure I thought december had scum!equity at the end of D1

Did you uhh... completely skip the part where I was giving her a hard time even before I decided to add skitter into the picture?

[DrDolittle]

You also said you are giving her a hard time to try to read skitter better? Plus having scum equity could be anywhere below null. Like wo skits flip if how independently scummy is jan?

[DrDolittle]

I'm trying to assess if you are truly having read or just OTP scum blindly tunneling skitter

[Vorkuta]

So again
Did you read the stuff directed towards january (confidence + word choice + snarky remarks) before D2 or not?

Those were genuine. Skitter popped up into my thought process when I actually decided to take the day seriously and solve at the beginning of D2.

OTP scum

This is a highly sub-optimal scum!play and extremely uncharacteristic of how I play scum so.....

those words sound familiar....

[DrDolittle]

Yeah I remember that. That's your 30 30 30 10 or something

[DrDolittle]

But didnt that again hinge on CJ and thus skitter being scum? Or I'm confusing your arguments

[Karnage]

the way I remember it, day 1 vork voted january for "pressure" while ignoring his scum reads/leans and eventually used Jan's reaction to said "pressure" as justification for his vote

[Karnage]

Either way-

as I've probably said somewhere before

my jan push was primarily a way to see whether I could get a read on skitter.
Sure I thought december had scum!equity at the end of D1, but I realized that there was no way we'd get a consensus lynch going for her if she was actually scum.
The same applies to ~3 other people, so my gameplan was to try and scumhunt/PoE the influential/gamestate controlling players

{tictac/skit/Zenith}

which would allow for us to open up the lynchpool on D3.
Fortunately I think I've hit dirt with skitter, but if things would have gone differently and I legitimately had a town!read on her, I'd move on to a similar grilling of tictac. I'm glad I don't have to seeing as I've played most of my hand this round, but *shrugs*

where are you with these 3 atm?

[skitter30]

why do you find the bolded scummy?

Because it feels like he's cherry-picking facts out of contsxt to support his case

[skitter30]

I don't think it's that hard to understand at all. Feels a bit gaslight-y. Sure vorkuta's case is not 100 percent watersealed but I feel like what you are doing is asking a bunch of questions and trying to catch him off guard rather than responding in good faith idk... It's different than [redacted] evidence.

No

[skitter30]

I buy this. Actually up to this point, I felt the same way in this exchange, in that the burden of proof that you place on vork is absurd, where as he is really in good faith trying to engage you.

Can you, perhaps, point to a place where i'm doing that?

[skitter30]

> Explain?

Not on a phone, maybe when i'm on a pc tom night