Mini Theme 2103 - E Bastard

[Vorkuta]

Pagetop

I'm referring to bastard/non-Bastard.
Except our non-Bastard rolls are claimed VTs lawl.

I'm more interested in your thoughts on cyrus- VI or not?

[Kelly Chen]

I don't know about non-bastard roles are VTs.

I don't see Cyrus as mafia. He seems to care about the game but also not care that much if he gets lynched. So he's town or maybe recruited cult who is disappointed about it.

Btw if we found cult, would we lynch them? Or do we have to find PMysterious' group because of the NK potential? Sounds like the feeling, at least used to be, to go for scum before cult. But we got one now.

Lots of evidence for Iconeum probably not PMysterious' partner. I didn't miss that.

nomnom why do you say Vorkuta gets town points for that last one?

[nomnomnom]

nomnom why do you say Vorkuta gets town points for that last one?

Because he's been raving about PMysterious since the beginning of the game and is the driving force behind his lynch and there's no way scum does that especially in a hypothetical last day.

[Vorkuta]

I don't know about non-bastard roles are VTs.

You... saw my bookkeeping right?


Oh
You want to say that "these guys received a VT roll!PM, but are actually bastard rolls in disguise?"
To that I reply
-too many
-okhams/cynicism/gut says "scum is lying" is more likely than "town doesn't know they're bastard"

[Kelly Chen]

@nomnom
Rreading the iso is that really true?? I don't spot a lot of references to PM but I'll go back and study.

I think he is town mostly because of his claim, I do think there has to be some decent role in the town.

[Kelly Chen]

I don't know about non-bastard roles are VTs.

You... saw my bookkeeping right?


Oh
You want to say that "these guys received a VT roll!PM, but are actually bastard rolls in disguise?"
To that I reply
-too many
-okhams/cynicism/gut says "scum is lying" is more likely than "town doesn't know they're bastard"

Yeah I saw a LOT of bookkeeping in there.

VT could be bastard, scum could be bastard. Actually I think the description of this game will turn out to not have been accurate, or at least, only accurate if you use an unusual definition of bastard. So I think we should mostly just play this game like normal.

[Vorkuta]

I don't spot a lot of references to PM

you know I called him jigglypuff right?

Here's where I actually put in effort and tryharded

Spoiler:

Chemist yeah

Jigglypuff actually high efforts as town and tries to solve
EMM- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11261751
B&W- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11291413
Like look at those damn wallposts and readlists in his ISOs

So his "chaotic neutral: rain fire and brimstone down upon us- I revel in this descent of madness!" thing this game really rubs me the wrong way.

[Vorkuta]

only accurate if you use an unusual definition of bastard. So I think we should mostly just play this game like normal.

Sure. Great. Everyone is completely free to solve the game in their own way, provided they don't lead town on a wild-goose chase. No objections there.

Except I disagree and will work under the best-case scenario assumptions that: my roll has been bastardized & we have an initial bastard pool of 6 players (based on wording) and 4 nonbastard flips & 5 claimed VTs.

I mean TL;DR feel free to interpret this as "I TR ico due to mechanical reasons on top of gameplay

punintended

reasons" seeing as that's the only practical effect that ^ generates this late in the game.

But I'm coming to this game with the following mentality "which 2 out of our 5 VTs is

intentionally

lying".
Like if a player isn't informed that he was recruited to the cult then..... how do we even play mafia?
I'd like to believe that a wincon exists for us and that's that.

[Kelly Chen]

Ok. I'll go back to there.

It seems like ultimately you're saying you don't want me to make Icon out his role. When do you think would be an appropriate time to revisit that. I have TR for Icon as well by the way.

DO you think your role has been bastardized? I thought you thought no.

[Vorkuta]

you don't want me to make Icon out his role

I have a TR on him AND I think he's a

not shitty

competent player.

If he has useful results or relevant information for us, he'll let us know.
If he thinks it's more pro-town to keep quiet, then it's his right to do so.

I thought you thought no

Guh.... How do I want to phrase this..... ok
My rollPM does not explicitly have any non-normal modifiers/abilities. How's that?
However I'm fine with making the assumption that the mod lied to me and bastardized it.

Another thing- if I'm non-bastard, then we have 3 liars in our pool of VTs and I don't like the math on that.

[Vorkuta]

Ayt less icon talk, more... nom v shos v cyrus talk probably

[Kelly Chen]

Ok. I have to leave for a while. Despite a TR (or non-scum read anyway) I don't think Icon's claim should skate past today. I reserve judgment on your own but I was thinking we'd get all the claims out today. Seems possible to imagine that tomorrow town is not even majority.

I think nomnom and chickadee are probably bad guys. I have to write a little about that.

[Vorkuta]

chickadee consensus townspewed but I can't wait for your writeup

[cyrus62]

kelly chan whats your read on shos

[Chickadee]

Kelly Chen town

Btw if we found cult, would we lynch them? Or do we have to find PMysterious' group because of the NK potential? Sounds like the feeling, at least used to be, to go for scum before cult. But we got one now.

We absolutely kill scum first. Cults do not typically have a night kill (and we don't have anything to prove so far that they do), and should still be invested in hunting scum that could take them out.

[Kelly Chen]

Ok, thanks for that Chickadee. Are you saying I'm town or you're town there?

Vorkuta what is townspew, is that the AtE? Chickadee's contributions seem scummy to me. Maybe just a playstyle but... she doesn't do much to stir the pot, posts are some apologies, comments on the setup or the Drew situation or strategy, making lots of easy comments like asking me to continue the mass claim (but doesn't get involved in discussion about whether popcorn should continue). Her only non-Drew vote is Cyrus for not making sense.

Again I am thinking a "discouraged town" read (if that's what you are seeing) can also be a cult read. The cult seemingly can't grow so they have a real slog to the finish. I would be depressed about it.

For Shos, I didn't have a strong impression, later posts read better than the earlier posts. His record on PMysterious is mixed, actually seems like he defended him more later. Have to look closer to see how much influence he likely had at these points. Shos didn't want to finish popcorn and nomnom made a big deal about that. It's one of the main instances where it seemed to me like nomnom's behavior was off.

On that note, regarding Drew, it is hard maybe to review D1/D2 fairly with the benefit of hindsight but it seems plausible to me that Drew's role was so important to cult win that cult would risk bold moves to stop his lynch. I have to read those days again carefully. But I had a nomnom=bad first impression.

I have to reread Shos more in context... Just looking through now and see where he said he doesn't even remember why Cyrus is cultread. I dunno, I feel OK about that actually.

[cyrus62]

@kelly you ever get that feeeling where some one is just bad and you see it you get others to see it but no one looks at it . shos post are bad they hurt town . they delayd us basicly 4 days with the whole mass clime then all i see is shos saying wait for gameplay to vote which didnt happen til after the day ended so you see why i think hes scum and any defence any one gives him makes said person look bad

[Chickadee]

Ok, thanks for that Chickadee. Are you saying I'm town or you're town there?

I'm saying you're town.

[Iconeum]

Mod failed to inform i went vla so

Vla until tuesday

Dead playerscan visit me in a dream during night

Hinted a TON towards this during game

Shos looks worst coming into today wrt the lynch

Ill be bck on tuesday

[Iconeum]

Plz no lynch until i get back

[shos]

welp, glad I was wrong

we can proceed with either nom or cyrus now

I like the new replacement

[cyrus62]

welp, glad I was wrong

we can proceed with either nom or cyrus now

I like the new replacement

this gives me faith in nom thank you shos i now think nom could be town.

[shos]

Oh my gawd. You suck.

[Iconeum]

Oh my gawd. You suck.

Why shouldnt we lynch you on the spot wrt how you treate pm lynch?

[shos]

Because I'm town, obviously
In a plurality game, you should be looking probably at who jumped on the wagon for cred when it was clear that it would be the winning lynch