Mini Theme 2103 - E Bastard

[Chickadee]

What did I even just read?

@Ico - between show and nom, I would lean more toward nom being town than shos. Yesterday I would have said the opposite, but reading over things today and seeing how they're both responding to the game state changes things.

@shos - You asked what makes it a fixation? You keep bringing up Korina, when he was MODKILLED. Never even posted in thread. MODKILLED. So if Korina is somehow a magical puzzle piece for you, just come out and say it. Otherwise it's a waste of time to keep bringing it up. Let's sort players still here. Preferably scum players. I have no interest in cult hunting.

[cyrus62]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

why do you want to lynch cyrus over shos?

Is this.... is this even a question?
How long are we going to give cyrus a free pass for EVERYTHING?

The mutual/consensus "he's our VI"
-doesn't cut it for me personally
-didnt apply to jigglypuff


Also nom vs shos was yesterday, and we postponed it today. Why not delay it until tomorrow?

at icon please tell me how this comes from town when we both know my lynch would mean town loses.

(does the site work super slow for everyone?)

Cyrus, for the 1000th time: let's work out what happens if we "mislynch" you.
You die.
Scum kills, at worst, a town member.
There are 5 people left alive
of which at worst we have 3 anti-town people, in two groups which are against each other. Town loses only if scum are alive and killing (btw how does cult wincon look like if there's no recruiter?).
how do we lose? we can still lynch a non-town and have scum shoot cult (or be eliminated, so no NK at all)

WE ARE NOT IN LYLO. please get it into your head

so im the numb skull here lets assume im right and there is 2 scums and one cult that leaves 4 town scums wincon saids control 50% of the votes one mislynch plus one night kill leaves us with two town 2 scum and 1 cult now less assume the cult doesnt buy any of the liveing town and votes one the scum see it and vote we lose.

[Kelly Chen]

Icon, you asked my conclusions about the PM interactions. Probably that nom and Chickadee were most plausible as PM partner. (Shos gets a nod but I dunno, it seems wrong to me.) I haven't done a Cyrus-PM post yet. My heart's not really into finishing that though... I think it won't be too conclusive. In the time left I'll either finish it or reread about Drew arguments.

My intention is to vote Nom. I would have done this already except you still haven't finished claiming (name and any info).

The bastard thing doesn't matter so much. Could your role be in the game is one question. (Probably but from a balance perspective it doesn't seem to have much effect.) Aside from that, it's just would you really think that a dreamer role is a bastard role.

why are you so fixated on lynching what you think is cult, when there's yet NO actual evidence of said cult in game?

I think you could be cult though. Not sure how well your breadcrumbs work out for one thing.

Anyway why would there not be cult? There is more evidence for than against due to Drew's role. I can't believe Drew would have received a role that basically just has to get himself lynched and make everybody talk about cult for a day when actually it's not in the setup at all. It would be a bastard thing for a mod to do but it's also pretty stupid isn't it?

I don't think the reason to not hunt cult is that the cult might not even exist. I don't get that idea.

[cyrus62]

nom comes off as town but also scum depends on how you wigh it and im still saying 3 unless proven other wise. what if cult is scum and doctor gave us 4 scum. after a;; it saids if town got reculted it was bad for town assumseing doctor lived 3 days that would have been 6 scum but it woyldnt gave to go that far lets assumse we lnch one of the one town becomes new scum 5 town 3 scum still and so on we kill scum day 2 and anoher town becomes scum 3 and 4 and another town dies 3 3 to 3 either one my maths off but i think you get the point.

[Kelly Chen]

however there is one cult .

Should be up to two cult right?

You say there could be two scum and one cult, what could balance that.

An interesting thing is if tomorrow is 2 cult, 1 scum, 2 town. If you lynch scum then I think cult would win? Or draw? Whereas if you lynch cult there, the game might continue. So I think it does matter, who is cult.

Pedit:
I didn't consider the idea of Drew recruiting people into the mafia. Maybe that could be balanced?? If it started out small.

I don't think Drew's flavor is consistent with that idea though.

[cyrus62]

Spoiler:

however there is one cult .

Should be up to two cult right?

You say there could be two scum and one cult, what could balance that.

An interesting thing is if tomorrow is 2 cult, 1 scum, 2 town. If you lynch scum then I think cult would win? Or draw? Whereas if you lynch cult there, the game might continue. So I think it does matter, who is cult.

Pedit:
I didn't consider the idea of Drew recruiting people into the mafia. Maybe that could be balanced?? If it started out small.

I don't think Drew's flavor is consistent with that idea though.

dont mindtrying to make sence of the game 3 days we lost town att the end of the day then we hit one scum . more town then scum due to draw dieing day 2 maybe.

[Kelly Chen]

lol wow so i was on the wagon that vork may not be scum there for a second untill this post ... but after this post seems super lazy and makes me bump vork back in with nom and shos so theres 2 scum between vork shos and nom and one cult i now see chick me and icon is town game shoved

Well Vork-PM seems unlikely to me but earlier you had a Vork cult theory. In that case Vork's role would have to be recruitable or fake.

Vork is your role good, at least?

About Korina/Shos/Icon: Korina probably couldn't do anything relevant due to the timing of the modkill but that's definitely the most interesting position to ask Icon about. Otherwise all that it is, is RCE/Drew said "hi" to Icon at night and it's not that interesting. That would be baffling, there should be some way Icon's role can be important in the setup.

[cyrus62]

Spoiler:

lol wow so i was on the wagon that vork may not be scum there for a second untill this post ... but after this post seems super lazy and makes me bump vork back in with nom and shos so theres 2 scum between vork shos and nom and one cult i now see chick me and icon is town game shoved

Well Vork-PM seems unlikely to me but earlier you had a Vork cult theory. In that case Vork's role would have to be recruitable or fake.

Vork is your role good, at least?

About Korina/Shos/Icon: Korina probably couldn't do anything relevant due to the timing of the modkill but that's definitely the most interesting position to ask Icon about. Otherwise all that it is, is RCE/Drew said "hi" to Icon at night and it's not that interesting. That would be baffling, there should be some way Icon's role can be important in the setup.

its either that or as sample as shos being cult and nom scum . or the other way around. which would mean icon me you, chick and vork are town which i cant see this so i am trying to short you 4 and you and chick im on the fence with both but lean more twords chick and i want to say nom is town but after re reading thire iso i have doubgts and after reading yours and game play i come to day 1 good , good day 2 not so much still wanting to lynch doctor day 3 no reponce and here we are . so far your post seem town very town like but that could be lamist . so i then look and think chicks easyer to town read . then i have to wigh you ageast vork and i like vork more but i have a sinking feeling. this is off the wall

that icon and vork is scum but i keep telling my self naa your over thinking. cuse icon called pm out day 1 so did vork. so that gives town points and what did you and gameplay do so far.

[Kelly Chen]

Hmm.

[shos]

@shos - You asked what makes it a fixation? You keep bringing up Korina, when he was MODKILLED. Never even posted in thread. MODKILLED. So if Korina is somehow a magical puzzle piece for you, just come out and say it. Otherwise it's a waste of time to keep bringing it up. Let's sort players still here. Preferably scum players. I have no interest in cult hunting.

You know, one can discuss multiple things.
Also, this is a very simple question to icon regarding his role. You seem to reallllly not want this answer. Are you a cultist?

so im the numb skull here lets assume im right and there is 2 scums and one cult that leaves 4 town scums wincon saids control 50% of the votes one mislynch plus one night kill leaves us with two town 2 scum and 1 cult now less assume the cult doesnt buy any of the liveing town and votes one the scum see it and vote we lose.

Correct. this means that if we mislynch then tomorrow is lylo. not today.

[shos]

An interesting thing is if tomorrow is 2 cult, 1 scum, 2 town. If you lynch scum then I think cult would win? Or draw? Whereas if you lynch cult there, the game might continue. So I think it does matter, who is cult.

since we don't know cult wincon, we should hope not to get there.
But still setup wise I highly doubt there are SO MANY antitown roles.

[nomnomnom]

UNVOTE:

I want to revisit the other slots, I feel something isn't right but I can't pinpoint it exactly.

[Iconeum]

why do you want to lynch cyrus over shos?

Is this.... is this even a question?
How long are we going to give cyrus a free pass for EVERYTHING?

The mutual/consensus "he's our VI"
-doesn't cut it for me personally
-didnt apply to jigglypuff


Also nom vs shos was yesterday, and we postponed it today. Why not delay it until tomorrow?

No. We are lynching in Nom/shos today. Sliight preference for shos, but the difference is a lot smaller then I thought it would be.

*Sigh*
reading pages 46-47, I really don't care by now which one of nommers and cyrus we lynch.

@Icon: at post 1152 I analyzed the modkill and got to the conclusion that Korina had a PT with someone. Today, you came forward and said that dead players could talk to you.
Would you please elaborate on any discussions you have had with any dead player? Perhaps any info on how korina broke the rules, too?

First off, Korina isn't dead. Korina is MODKILLED. Stop talking about this. Second, if I had any relevant information I'd have claimed it already.

I am a Town Medium. During night, I can be visited by dead players. If they do, I will have dreams according to their choice if they decide to contact me. Nothing happened so far. At all.

This is the full extent of my role. I ca

[Iconeum]

I can see why it's a big deal to some, because not full claiming now can lead to me 'being cult or scum and leaving room for a fake claim later'.

[Iconeum]

@Vorkuta, we are not lynching Cyrus. He's 99.9% town here. He. Just. Is.

@Cyrus, please leave Vorkuta be for today. It's not because he expresses a scum or cultread in you, that he's bad. He is trying to sort the game and win, and he thinks you might be a bad dude because of how you play. Remember the other game, where I thought you were scum as well? I was just town who thought to have found one of the baddies.

[Iconeum]

dont mindtrying to make sence of the game 3 days we lost town att the end of the day then we hit one scum . more town then scum due to draw dieing day 2 maybe

this is a wrong representation of the gamestate tho.

We were forced to live with a modkill on an unflipped player D1. On D2 we

deliberately

chose to lynch what we KNEW was town, just because of negative utility role.
On D3 we lynched scum. That's actually a pretty good town record given the circumstances.

[Iconeum]

Icon, you asked my conclusions about the PM interactions. Probably that nom and Chickadee were most plausible as PM partner. (Shos gets a nod but I dunno, it seems wrong to me.) I haven't done a Cyrus-PM post yet. My heart's not really into finishing that though... I think it won't be too conclusive. In the time left I'll either finish it or reread about Drew arguments.

My intention is to vote Nom. I would have done this already except you still haven't finished claiming (name and any info).

The bastard thing doesn't matter so much. Could your role be in the game is one question. (Probably but from a balance perspective it doesn't seem to have much effect.) Aside from that, it's just would you really think that a dreamer role is a bastard role.

why are you so fixated on lynching what you think is cult, when there's yet NO actual evidence of said cult in game?

I think you could be cult though. Not sure how well your breadcrumbs work out for one thing.

Anyway why would there not be cult? There is more evidence for than against due to Drew's role. I can't believe Drew would have received a role that basically just has to get himself lynched and make everybody talk about cult for a day when actually it's not in the setup at all. It would be a bastard thing for a mod to do but it's also pretty stupid isn't it?

I don't think the reason to not hunt cult is that the cult might not even exist. I don't get that idea.

I think ur asking the right questions tho. Town cannot allow any kind of room for fake claims later on, so ur right to push me on that. The bastard question is kinda important because the mod said 50% is bastard role. Any role where dead players can still interact with the game is strictly bastard, so yeah.

Wrt to cult, one or two could be in this game sure. But other then a role that suggests cult, i've not seen actual evidence yet.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: nomnom

[Kelly Chen]

Ok. Thanks for that.

I do want to point out iffiness here in the crumbing, in case people haven't thought about it.

First crumb is:

Because I have a feeling this game goes beyond the grave

But note this thought was not new at the time:

Someone has an invisible vote or Korina is voting gameplay beyond the grave.

And the first person to mention dreams was Chemist. Chemist pretty quickly denied that the dreams were mechanics-related but Icon kept bringing it up, like saying he thought Chemist should claim among last.

To his credit he basically pointed it out:

Chemist I'm unsure of. I think he dropped a hint, or it's a gigantic coincidence. This will become clear later on.

Anyway so the conspiracy theory is that Icon knew he would want a claim so he noticed stuff people were saying and repeated it as his own crumbs.

Voting nomnom before deadline.

[Iconeum]

I suppose that's one way to look at it, the other being I was actually surprised someone was hinting towards my own role.

(I honestly doubt i'm capable of coming up with faking it like you are suggesting, but i'm flattered anyway )

[nomnomnom]

Voting me is a really bad vote because I'm not playing at all like I would play scum, but I know that it's empty words coming from me but you can check. I don't play like this as scum. I just have a hard time getting into this game honestly.

I need to rethink Ico and Chick's slots.

[Iconeum]

nom, I think ur scum with PM because how you handled your vote on him (trying to steer me back on Chick, working against the PM lynch until late and what I think is apathy for PM because he wasn't here). Your shos case is also nothing, and not reconsidered with PM flip.

Why am I wrong then?

[Iconeum]

Also like, I could get that you were not into this game previous day and that it felt kinda dead, but town would definitely have renewed energy upon seeing a scum flip, no?

[Iconeum]

nomnom, i don't think this is your towngame either?

am i wrong?

[Vorkuta]

but you can check

+1 can confirm, scum!nom would never lie down and do nothing esp. now