Undertale Semi-Open 1.1 - Snowdin Snowdown

[Xayah]

Under your assumption that Rakan and aginngie are both town that means both scum are still alive. What do you think scum would be trying to do in this situation?
How does this change if one scum is in spare and 1 scum is out?

Well, it depends on how confident the scumteam is that they can beat the others. Today has been a rather lax day and it makes me question if scum are comfortable or if we've all just been lazy. Do scum not want to be spared or do they think they can get one of Rakan or Gin killed? I was trying to not be so hard on my stances at first to see if I could give scum a chance in thinking they can mislynch Rakan. But the only one who really is taking a 'Rakan scum' stance seems to be Mastina. She's had that read since day 1.

Tell me, do you think both scum are playing right now or are they in the pt?

That’s a good point about this day being lax. Hmm.

My thoughts are that if scum are not in currently in the spare, they would want to get into the spare to cast doubt on the current spare members and to get that additional kill. However, if scum are already in the spare they wouldn’t care if anyone gets spared or killed as long as the outside member isn’t getting lynched. They’ve already locked in the second kill and any doubt for spare members and if a lynch goes through on a townie they just win outright.

Now that I’m walking through this logic it really seems likely to me that scum are already in the spare given there’s been like no effort from town this phase.

I almost don’t want to be in the spare because if my thinking is correct people are just gonna incorrectly scumread me and after Baton Pass I don’t think I have the mental or physical strength to deal with that

Who do you think the scum in the spare pt could be? Because we obviously disagree on that. This kinda looks like, well. That's exactly what you're saying. You're about to get spared and you're preparing for it. So, if I could clear your doubts about scum in the spare pt would that make you want to be spared? Let's say the answer to that is no. Who would you spare right now if given the chance?

[Oversoul]

It was impressive but I will put a feather in my cap that I was one of the only townies who did not spare vote him.

Now that I think about it and I’m less salty he should be nommed for that performance

[Oversoul]

It possibly could. I think Rakan is probably guaranteed town in the spare. How he reacted to my early play looks very town and reminds me how Chennis reacted to me last game. Gingie looked like an echo of that. I could be totally misreading that. I truest that you can read Rakan since you’re Xayah That does make me feel better about Rakan at least


I guess why do you townread aginngie so strongly?

[Xayah]

That's, a good question. Now that you ask I don't really know why I'm townreading them as strongly as I've been letting on. I think it was mostly 'Well everyone townreads Gin and I like how they played around Mastina so there town.' I know Gin/Mastina can read each other really well. Kinda the same way me and Rakan can I left it at that for the most part.

[Oversoul]

In a way I feel bad for scumreading Gingie because it is partly not his fault. Part of my scumread on him is the fact that I wasn’t on his wagon and he got quick spared and he spared himself. That reminds me very much of what happened with Elements in the last game when he was quick spared.

I wish you had a better reason to townread Gingie but I guess I can’t fault that because I don’t have better radon’s to scumread him. That said, I do think you going back and forth with me is likely town indicative of what I know about you. You’ve lurked and left Shadoweh to carry too many HH games and I really expected you to just ignore my call earlier tonight. This makes me think your own call to Mastina earlier was legitimate and the intent genuine.

[Xayah]

In a way I feel bad for scumreading Gingie because it is partly not his fault. Part of my scumread on him is the fact that I wasn’t on his wagon and he got quick spared and he spared himself. That reminds me very much of what happened with Elements in the last game when he was quick spared.

I wish you had a better reason to townread Gingie but I guess I can’t fault that because I don’t have better radon’s to scumread him. That said, I do think you going back and forth with me is likely town indicative of what I know about you. You’ve lurked and left Shadoweh to carry too many HH games and I really expected you to just ignore my call earlier tonight. This makes me think your own call to Mastina earlier was legitimate and the intent genuine.

Since you think Gin is scum what does that do to your Mastina read? They should be able to read each other rather well. So I'm interested to hear your take on that.

Honestly me being active or not is not AI for me. As much as I wouldn't mind the free townread. Meta on me doesn't work. The reason I let shadoweh play is cause she was new plus I hated the whole game. I can lurk as town I can lurk as scum.

[Oversoul]

Xayah reminded me of something last night so I’ll amend my question to Mastina I guess. Do you still scumread Rakan? What is the basis for that scumread if so?1

[mastina]

Mastina I think if there’s scum in the spare chat it is Gingie. His spare happened very inorganically in my opinion. I was townreading Rakan’s aggression against me and my antics which is why I spared him. To Chemist, I like to think I am playing this game almost how I played the last Undertale game. I am less active here but I am also less toxic. I was only less active here because Baton Pass was a game I really wanted to win and it was an absolute slog to deal with past a certain point. That game made me hate mafia and honestly sapped my will to play.

Yes, well. Ginngie is town, so.
No need to worry about her there.

Mind you, if you do think that the sparewagon on her was scumdriven (fully possible, even with Ginngie being town), then you have incentive to townread those who weren't a part of it.
And guess where I wasn't voting to spare on D2.

[mastina]

Mastina I think if there’s scum in the spare chat it is Gingie. His spare happened very inorganically in my opinion. I was townreading Rakan’s aggression against me and my antics which is why I spared him. To Chemist, I like to think I am playing this game almost how I played the last Undertale game. I am less active here but I am also less toxic. I was only less active here because Baton Pass was a game I really wanted to win and it was an absolute slog to deal with past a certain point. That game made me hate mafia and honestly sapped my will to play.

Yes, well. Ginngie is town, so.
No need to worry about her there.

Mind you, if you do think that the sparewagon on her was scumdriven (fully possible, even with Ginngie being town), then you have incentive to townread those who weren't a part of it.
And guess where I wasn't voting to spare on D2.

To explain:
There's two scum in the game.
For the Ginngie wagon to be scumdriven, AT LEAST one of the voters for it must be scum, if not two.

I was not sparing Ginngie on D2.
So either the wagon wasn't scumdriven, or it was but I am therefore town due to it. Either way, you're pretty much guaranteed AT LEAST one town in Ginngie/myself, and we are mutually townreqding each other, so.

[mastina]

I think I am most struggling with Day 2's selection. Day 2 lasted all of 5 days. The last two votes and hammer on Ginngie came within a short period of time and it doesn't help that I have been scumreading one of the people who facilitated the speed of that day (Elements).

I find it especially odd that Elements would do such a thing despite everyone generally poo-poo'ing my speed spare tactic from the last game when I did it to Chennisden. Elements' behavior in context of what we know from last game is why I am having such a hard time believing he is town. I just do not think Elements acts the way he does in this game knowing all the things we know from that game.

However, now that I look back at what happened on Day 3, my stronger town read on Chemist did the same thing by quickhammering Nacho. I find that especially interesting given the fact that Chemist is now scumreading me for quicksparing Rakan when he quicklynched Nacho. I will maintain that quick sparing is not as detrimental as quicklynching by the simple reason we get to technically keep spares alive. I'm not sure if this hypocrisy is scum motivated. I don't know if Chemist is the type of scum player to try and keep his actions in a specific line/trajectory, or if he is a more play it by ear person. Honestly Day 2 and Day 3 happened so fast while I was wasting all of my time with Baton Pass is why I have literally no understanding or basis in this game. I basically wasn't even here for either of those day phases because they lasted less than a week, collectively.

I am beginning to wonder if that is designed to try and hold my activity against me since that is my main scumtell... Something that Chemist openly acknowledged earlier in the game. It is interesting that he is now scumreading me.

Mastina is a hard one... like Mastina and Nacho have intimate knowledge of me. They have played with me my entire career on this site. I am pretty sure both of them were in my first ever game on this site. But my general knowledge base of how Mastina behaved with me is that she almost always scumread me... and I almost always scumread her out of paranoia. She is a good scumplayer and I never wanted her to have upperhand on me. It helped that we could lock into an eagle death spiral of mutual scum reads on one another. The fact that she is so quick to townread me despite my activity being closer to my scum game. If there is one tell that I have it is that my activity is highly alignment indicative. I'm not sure how much Nacho influenced her to read me, but this is giving me pause on mastina given our extensive history together.

Then there is Xayah... who has in my mind done nothing except for quickhammer Nacho. Mariar has been commonly heralded as a good scumplayer by people on this site, but whenever I have played with scum mariar (in the Hidden Happiness hydra) she has just lurked her way through games. While I don't generally see the lurkiness here, mainly because it seems like everyone has been lurking, and I also have not been here, I am having a hard time seeing the townie motivated actions... I think Maria is a good enough player to realize that quickhammering Nacho is generally a bad idea. Then again, she wasn't the one who actually quick hammered from the looks of it, but like Elements, she did make it happen.

It is funny because this game seems like the antithesis to Baton Pass. I genuinely scumread everyone who is still alive. This is why I don't want to spare anyone else other than myself. Likewise, I don't want to lynch another player because if we are wrong on the lynch and there is a scum already in the spare room, that lynch is LyLo. I am thinking if there is a scum in the spare it is Ginngie. If it is Rakan, I trust that Maria can read whoever she thought she was close enough with to make the Lover Pair alt account.

At any rate, I do not want this day phase to be as fast as the others. We actually need content to parse before we make any decision even if it seems like the majority believes in what I want to happen.

So first things first, Chemist why did you quick hammer Nacho? Why are you scumreading me for something similar to what you did?

Mastina, what is your read on Rakan and Ginngie? What do you think of Chemist/Elements?

Xayah, why are you now comfortable townreading me when you were not before? If I'm not mistaken, wasn't I a stronger scumread for you?

Elements, why are you now comfortable sparing me instead of Mastina?

My read on you is a bit sheeping, yes.
I already was willing to entertain the idea that you're town just on the merit of my own analysis. When others who I trust to be both town and competent, e.g. Nacho, townread you and put in the effort of writing a case for it because of this strong belief, I am going to trust that read.

My read on Rakan is thus: factoring in nka, he'd logically be town, because I feel like my logic for the night kills holds, as evidence that scum were afraid of us achieving a pacifist victory.

(This, mind you, is also why the hammer on lynching Nacho was so scumdriven IMO, but more on that below.)

Ignoring nka, Rakan would still be a scumread.

This would be the main reason why I want to spare you; it'd also tell me if my nka was right or wrong. No scum spared, my nka theory was right; scum feared us achieving the pacifist victory, and the hammer/wagon on Nacho was blatantly scumdriven.

One scum spared, and it's not you and it's not Ginngie, so by poe, it'd be Rakan, and by extent, my nka was wrong.

As for Elements/Chemist: they're my current best guess for the scumteam. I think that one of them is almost certainly scum with a high probability that both are. There's a small chance of Xayah being scum, and there's a small chance of Rakan being scum, and yes, even the chance those two are the scumteam. But far more likely is that one of Chemist/Elements is definitely scum and the other is probably their partner.

[Elements]

As for Elements/Chemist: they're my current best guess for the scumteam. I think that one of them is almost certainly scum with a high probability that both are. There's a small chance of Xayah being scum, and there's a small chance of Rakan being scum, and yes, even the chance those two are the scumteam. But far more likely is that one of Chemist/Elements is definitely scum and the other is probably their partner.

Which of xayah and raken do you think is more likely to be chemists partner?

[Oversoul]

HEAL: Oversoul

Doing this so we don't just lose the day phase. Going to be catching up shortly

[popsofctown]

Glamburger

[popsofctown]

A hammer was not reached by deadline.
The game is paused for the deadline outcome described in the OP.

[popsofctown]

If there is no killing or sparing decision by the deadline, the mafia will be privately contacted to make a killing or sparing decision on behalf of the town.

[popsofctown]

I will give the mafia 48 hours to make this decision.

[popsofctown]

A mysterious figure approaches Xayah, and asks her to duel, handing her a spear and taking one for itself.
"Come oooooooooon..... it will be fuuuuuuuun. Let's ignore the arguments, just for a little while."
Xayah could put off the discussion a little while to play with a mysterious new friend, as long as they made a decision sooner or later, right?
She relished the challenge, flashing a grin at her sparring partner and excited for the opportunity to hone skills that had been atrophying lately.
"Let's dance!"
But the mysterious figure did not bring their A game or their B game, just their J game.

Xayah was infuriated. So infuriated she began to fire massive-offcanon spears from her arms until the force pushed her back into the trees, where she landed at the clearing in the trees where Rakan and Ginngie were.

Xayah has been

spared.

[popsofctown]

The thousands upon thousands of spears themselves actually made a bridge, with metal spears fused into each other in a lattice forming a strange walkway. The monsters last need for the treehouse had been a ladder, of some kind. After the monsters spent some time gathering a few more items, and packing all their belongings they walked along the walkway until they reached the treehouse to see the three first denizens of the treehouse.

Rakan excitedly greeted them all and explained what would make the treehouse the very most safe.

"This is Metatron 3.0. He can kill anything that moves, but has to stop if it's a monster, because of the safety chip in his head. I made him two years ago and forgot about him, but we fetched him from the lab once we had enough people to carry him." Rakan patted the large square robot on the head as he turned on the power switch on the front. Its screen slowly came to life as it booted up.
"Let me show you the safety chip, I made it look like a heart! It's so cute!" Rakan added. Rakan turned the robot around and showed an empty heart shaped indent in the back of the robot's body.
Metatron 3.0 pushed everyone back away from itself, and held its hand protectively over its power switch.

"

READY TO KILL. TIS THE SEASON.

"

[popsofctown]

The core has been reached. Similar to the previous game, Xayah is spared but spends 0.01 seconds in the spared PT before leaving the spared PT, so she will never be able to post in the spared PT, only read a locked archive.
It is now Night 4, night actions are due in 48 hours (mafia don't get additional time for the additional kill): (expired on 2019-11-05 20:06:42)

[popsofctown]

Spared PT

[popsofctown]

An opening in Metatron 3.0's mouth emerged, and it pulled what looked like an aluminum baseball bat out of it. But implanted in the tip was a pink, metal, heartshaped device, with ripped wires dangling frayed from it.
"A GIFT.
FROM MY TRUEST LOVE. AFTER OUR WEDDING WE SHALL HONEYMOON HERE ALONE."
Metatron 3.0 swung its arm in a piston-like motion to punch a heartshaped hole in the door of the toolshed, using the bat.
"ALONE. ALONE. ALONE. ALONE."
Yellow and purple flashed on Metatron's screen in a disorienting pattern, halfway blinding all of the monsters. Then Metatron grabbed a dizzy Ginngie by the ears, yanking him so that he fell onto the floor.
"MY LOVE COMPLAINS OF POOR SNOW GOLF SCORES. WELL THAT SCORE SHALL BE ADDED TO MINE, FOR WE ARE ONE. CARES AND TROUBLES CEASE."
Ginngie, though clearly in mortal peril, opens his mouth to speak.
"Actually, golf scores are superior when they are lower, so you shouldn't want to add yours."
"DATA INPUT IGNORED."
Metatron 3.0 swings the bat with super-monstrous force, in a golf club style technique, immediately damaging Ginngie enough to kill him and launching him into the air.

Spoiler: Ginngie Role PM

You are

Politics Bear, a Vanilla Townie

Your flavor has no game impact. Your primary powers are your voice and your vote.
To confirm, tell me your rolename, and acknowledge that the mafia have daytalk (as they do).

If there's ever an issue "...a skeleton will tell a fish about it." That's politics!

Ginngie's body hurtles through the air. Most monsters see what's happening and dive and duck to stay out of the way. But one monster is staring intently, hyperfocused, at a tangle of wires, metal, and rubber.
Yes. Someone's first impulse, at seeing the danger, was to try to make a new heart as quickly as possible. But not quickly enough.
Ginngie collided with Rakan, bruising Rakan, but more importantly creating a tumble that resulted in Rakan being oriented upside-down, neckfirst. They tumbled through the branches together, but when Rakan landed on the forest floor, all the monsters could hear the neck snap from the weight of a huge bear landing atop a smaller monster.

Spoiler: Rakan role PM

You are

Alphys, a Vanilla Townie

Your flavor has no game impact. Your primary powers are your voice and your vote.
To confirm, tell me your rolename, and acknowledge that the mafia have daytalk (as they do).

Unafraid to follow her crush..

The monsters are shocked by the losses, but mortal danger is still in front of them, so they widen their stances and prepare to fight. There is no longer any time for hesitation if they wish to survive.

Deadline is in seven days.
(expired on 2019-11-12 23:06:42)

[popsofctown]

The topic has been unlocked.

The living players are:
Elements
mastina
Xayah
Oversoul
Chemist1422

[Oversoul]

Do we get to know what xayah’s alignment is?

[popsofctown]

No. The alignment reveal component of neutral route occurred before night even began, in the flavor - the spared players prepared a killer robot together so one spared player was scum.

Today's flavor post was going to hammer the point home but I've gotten busy this evening.

[mastina]

Okay, so.
Xayah is confscum. We know this due to the fact that scum got a doublekill last night and the scum decided to kill both the other people spared (not to mention the fact that scum chose to spare Xayah in the first place).

I investigated Chemist last night and got an innocent result.

Which means that the scumteam is either Xayah/Elements or Xayah/Oversoul.

It should be pretty obvious which one I believe is the case.
HURT: Xayah

Kinda flabbergasted the scum didn't choose to force-lynch me and didn't nightkill me tho because frankly I thought everyone figured out I was the cop?