Perfect Masquerade [Game Over]

[Gentleman 3]

Thats alot of posts with no context.

Well, yeah. But I just wanted to illustrate that it does happen.

[Gentleman 4]

MariaR's name is up there a laughable number of times.

That said, most of those people you quoted leaving (at least of the ones I looked at), Gentleman 3, left because they thought their partner is scum, not due to some insignificant quibble, which makes your post remarkably dishonest in the way it presents itself in context.

[Gentleman 4]

Lady 7, how do you feel about Lady 4 right now?

[Gentleman 4]

And because my curiosity gets the better of me, I must ask, Lady 4, how do you feel about Lady 7 right now?

[Gentleman 5]

People die in mafia, if you worry too much about living youre not going anywhere mate.

This is a non sequitur that I think pretends to be an actual argument? Can you rephrase this in more formal terms, i.e. tell me exactly what your premises and conclusion are?

I just think you are too worried about leaving. Its not coming off as a town look to me.

Thats alot of posts with no context.

Well, yeah. But I just wanted to illustrate that it does happen.

Im sure it does, but context matters. Like why they decided to leave. Do you want to tell me all those you quoted were spur of the moment moves?

[Gentleman 3]

That said, most of those people you quoted leaving (at least of the ones I looked at), Gentleman 3, left because they thought their partner is scum, not due to some insignificant quibble, which makes your post remarkably dishonest in the way it presents itself in context.

I mean obviously nobody would leave unless they thought their partner is scum, but I'd bet that some of them were fairly spur-of-the-moment. But there's nothing to lose by, you know, trying to wagon them first... and tons of information is lost when you just yeet out of there.

[Gentleman 3]

I just think you are too worried about leaving. Its not coming off as a town look to me.

Why not?

[Gentleman 3]

Why is that something I might fake concern for as scum, but for which I'd be less likely to really have concern for as town?

What are the odds that I don't think leaving is REALLY a big issue for town, but I'm scum and I'm pretending I do, because I think it will bring me some advantage?

[Gentleman 4]

That said, most of those people you quoted leaving (at least of the ones I looked at), Gentleman 3, left because they thought their partner is scum, not due to some insignificant quibble, which makes your post remarkably dishonest in the way it presents itself in context.

I mean obviously nobody would leave unless they thought their partner is scum, but I'd bet that some of them were fairly spur-of-the-moment. But there's nothing to lose by, you know, trying to wagon them first... and tons of information is lost when you just yeet out of there.

This post is relatively contrary to the following one,

Why do you think people plan on leaving?

It is a tradition in this setup for people to leave for stupid, petty reasons.

Which I realize is re-framed by the post that follows it,

By which I mean people are (a) impulsive, (b) intoxicated by the power of being able to immediately kill someone, and (c) bad at calculating why it's mathematically not a good idea to leave.

but I doubt I stand alone in believing you were trying to say you were afraid of players leaving due to play-style differences or something akin. Either way, quoting simply all the times town players have been wrong either exposes your confirmation bias or attempts to take advantage of the fact that we can't see all the times town has been right.

[Gentleman 4]

Why is that something I might fake concern for as scum, but for which I'd be less likely to really have concern for as town?

What are the odds that I don't think leaving is REALLY a big issue for town, but I'm scum and I'm pretending I do, because I think it will bring me some advantage?

I think fearing someone else leaving is much more real for scum than town, and even if you disagree with me on this, why is this a fear that scum would have to fake? You're proposing my approach to your dilemma as one with only two options, but I think one of these isn't even close to one of the most likely probabilities.

[Gentleman 4]

Why is that something I might fake concern for as scum, but for which I'd be less likely to really have concern for as town?

What are the odds that I don't think leaving is REALLY a big issue for town, but I'm scum and I'm pretending I do, because I think it will bring me some advantage?

I think fearing someone else leaving is much more real for scum than town, and even if you disagree with me on this, why is this a fear that scum would have to fake? You're proposing my approach to your dilemma as one with only two options, but I think one of these isn't even close to one of the most likely probabilities.

This more likely probability that you've yet to mention.

[Gentleman 5]

Why is that something I might

fake

concern for as scum, but for which I'd be less likely to really have concern for as town?

What are the odds that I don't think leaving is REALLY a big issue for town, but I'm scum and I'm pretending I do, because I think it will bring me some advantage?

I dont think youre faking the fear of leaving.

You want to make it to endgame, im starting to think its because youre scum.

We all have the risk of getting left at the table. Its part of the game. I just dont think people are going to randomly leave unless they are scum, and even then.

[Gentleman 3]

I mean town has left the dance and been right in the past, but when I pair with someone, that's not what I'm concerned about, because it's impossible for them to do that.

And yes I was afraid of players leaving due to playstyle differences. I have been scumread for playstyle differences over and over, in almost every game I play. Usually that read works itself out with enough time, but if my partner leaves on me before it can, then they have potentially screwed town over in a major way.

I want L2 and L6 to weigh in on this when they get a chance. To both of you, if I pair with you, how will you go about trying to read me? What will you do if you scumread me? What will you do if I scumread you?

[Gentleman 5]

G3 if you pair up with someone that you later read as scum, would you leave?

[Gentleman 3]

You want to make it to endgame, im starting to think its because youre scum.

It's because of math. For any other pair to make it to endgame, we could lose because the gent in that pair is scum, or we could lose because the lady in that pair is scum.

If my pair makes it to endgame, we lose only if the lady is scum. That straight-up halves our chance of losing.

I'm not saying I necessarily should make it to endgame, but it's the most important thing to consider in deciding who to pair with, because let's be real. Probably none of the other unpaired gents are going to live to endgame. So if I'm NOT making it to endgame, it doesn't MATTER who I pair with. Endgame potential is the most salient factor in my decision.

[Gentleman 3]

G3 if you pair up with someone that you later read as scum, would you leave?

Only if it was MYLO, and even then only with significant deliberation. Otherwise I would attempt to wagon them.

[Gentleman 5]

Ive said a few times now, Ill say it again.

This just reads to me as scum worried about getting offed prematurely. Theres just way too much thought going into G3’s partner leaving.

The survivalism is looking to be really bad, almost to the point I have to wonder why he joined the game if he was worried about a mechanic that he knew was bad for his playstyle

[Gentleman 4]

I mean town has left the dance and been right in the past, but when I pair with someone, that's not what I'm concerned about, because it's impossible for them to do that.

And yes I was afraid of players leaving due to playstyle differences. I have been scumread for playstyle differences over and over, in almost every game I play. Usually that read works itself out with enough time, but if my partner leaves on me before it can, then they have potentially screwed town over in a major way.

I want L2 and L6 to weigh in on this when they get a chance. To both of you, if I pair with you, how will you go about trying to read me? What will you do if you scumread me? What will you do if I scumread you?

If things usually work out in time, how are you expecting the player base to know how later days will turn out or whether or not you will make it to end game?

If things usually work out in time, why are you so scared of who you choose?

If you are so worried about your partner leaving before you can convince the rest of the players you are town, why not choose the partner you think will not leave you?

I think if you feel strongly on the idea that you will be able to, as you say, make it obvious you are town in time, your choice is obvious given what you've presented the rest of us with. But because you seem to regularly contradict your words and actions with the mindset you claim to have, that's very doubtful.

So if I'm NOT making it to endgame, it doesn't MATTER who I pair with.

I know I deleted context, but I didn't really want the rest of the post getting in the way of the question:
Do you really think that it doesn't matter who you pair with if you will not make it to end game?

[Gentleman 7]

I'm catching up now, I wound up falling sick yesterday. Haven't read anything in the last bit.

[Gentleman 7]

I think it would be good for me to have a partner early, and I think of the ladies, three is best for me.

So, my dear, I'd like to re-extend my offer.

Lady 3, dance with me?

Am I misremembering this, or did G4 like L3 all game, get replaced, and then the replacement went right back to liking L3 again? I haven't really seen what L3's done that's towny, and I'm garbage at identifying mains. I'm suspicious of this pair, but at the same time, I don't really think that either of them have enough town equity to be an S/S pair that will survive to the end.

I feel like my stronger lady townreads (L7, sort of L4) are too towny

I meant to ask about this earlier, why is L4 listed as sort of and not the other way around? I didn't think you had that much of a town read on me, and I thought that L4 was more widely town read than me in general.

I was bothered by L4 at the start, I didn't like her early posts as much. Whereas you've felt more natural and contributing to a way of making good pairings. Also, L4's kind of suspicious of me, so we'd make a bad pair, and I'm also a tad suspicious of people who are suspicious of me. Because I think I play scummy and I've had scum go after me before as an easy target.

[Gentleman 8]

Hello again, good citizens!

The volume of communication here is simply staggering, and I struggle to keep up, particularly while wearing this excellent and most efficacious mask, which, while handsome, leaves much to be desired for eye-holes.

I am entirely flexible with regard to a partner. I find most of the judgments discussed here premature. Either I am paired with a good and talented dancer, in which case I shall be delighted to waltz the night away, or I shall be paired with one who steps on toes and uses the wrong fork at dinner. In the latter case, I will be delighted to do the company a service and leave the dance with her. To wit, based on Gentleman 4's list,

Lady Lucky #7, will you dance with me?

[Lady 4]

And because my curiosity gets the better of me, I must ask, Lady 4, how do you feel about Lady 7 right now?

I'm thinking she is likely town. Also, I think shes only made one rude post in this game and I dont understand why she keeps apologizing for playing mafia.

I have read the last few pages but I didn't have much to say about them except that I share the concerns about Lady 8 but not so much the specific criticisms. I'm also thinking Lady 3 might be town for the bizarre series of posts that seem to me like they were clearly doomed not to accomplish anything.

[Gentleman 7]

Who are you looking to pair with Lady 2?

I'd be open to G6 but he doesn't have eyes for me. I've thought about G1 (needs to start posting again tho) and G7 (though I've questioned whether he's Town quite a bit) as potentially attractive partners.

What do you like about me?

I don't really remember that much about you, tbh. I'm going to have to look back at you after I catch up to see how I feel.

[Gentleman 3]

Do you really think that it doesn't matter who you pair with if you will not make it to end game?

Yes.

[Lady 6]

I want L2 and L6 to weigh in on this when they get a chance. To both of you, if I pair with you, how will you go about trying to read me? What will you do if you scumread me? What will you do if I scumread you?

If I scumread you and you TR me, I'd talk to you heavily. If you were scum, you'd lead me to partners. If last scum alive, self wagon. If it was a mutual scumread, we'd definitely self wagon. I like talkers to be my good partners.

If you scumread me, I'd surmount anyway. If townreading you, I'd attempt to persuade you I'm town by my actions.

I came here to play under an alt, not ragequit and throw a tantrum.