Newbie 1964 [Game Over]

[skitter30]

Vote Count 1.5

lcpl jones (4) ~

billy pilgrim, micc, gyro zeppeli, arkias

billy pilgrim (2) ~

heavy anaconda, bepwei

heavy anaconda (1) ~

lcpl jones

Not voting (2) ~

karnage, bbmolla

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-15 09:00:00)

mod notes:

-

[Billy Pilgrim]

This is a weird game state. Only 4 people have more posts than the mod. 1 of them is being wagons by 2 of the others while the other isnt voting. There's an L-1 wagon and then I'm the counter wagon.

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think it's likely that we're gonna get a replacement there. I mean Jones basically broke the rule and requested replacement in the thread, so I dont think he has any intentions of coming back.

[bepwei]

Where did I back off? When he said he was town, I said the appeal to emotion from him sounded fake. What post have I made after my initial post that was backing off of Jones. And in the post that you were responding to, didnt I ask everyone what their thoughts were on the Jones wagon and Jones' response?

FWIW, I dont think either of these are good, but I think Bep's post is worse. I made that case at 155. Bep posts before I flip out about the game state, so if it was my push that was bad, he could have voted there.

You never really pushed it hard. All you did was dump your vote and then after jones’s AtE, you complained about the wagon being weak. @Micc did a similar thing. He never posted his reasons to vote until much later after jones left. I dislike the fact that the people starting the wagon blame the people not on the wagon for the lack of strength. I feel that you should have been showing Jones the reasons he is suspicious rather than telling people to join the wagon. This could be a difference in philosophy, but evidence puts more pressure than just a L-1 wagon. Especially with Zeppin the in the game on not confortable with an L-1 yet. I feel that Billy is almost using the wagon as a way to hide. You’ve made 2 posts really accusing him (155, 173) until you were upset that the wagon wasn’t strong. At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

[Heavy Anaconda]

I don't think I've misrepresented anything here. I answered those questions in post 204 and you responded to them, but there's some logic that I think is flawed in that response and I feel compelled to challenge that logic. I'll happily take another shot at explaining L-1 vs L-2 again in exchange for you explaining how townies are supposed to lynch scum without making wagons which you called scummy.

I'm thinking about this, as I want to give you a satisfactory answer. The issue likely lies with some perception of site meta, which I don't fully understand yet. My points are valid though. Remember, the original issue im arguing is why I voted against the Jones wagon.

I think your trying to argue a point like since finding yourself at L1 is along the "natural course" of a player being lynched regardless of intent, there is nothing inherently scummy about it. In fact it the most optimal pressure position because blah blah

My original point was scum can do this looking for a claim to better inform there kill. That will be true regardless of site meta.

[Karnage]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

[bepwei]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

This to me seems like a way to not vote a scum buddy but trying not to look suspicious themselves. If LCpl flips scum i think this is a good place to look.

[Karnage]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

This to me seems like a way to not vote a scum buddy but trying not to look suspicious themselves. If LCpl flips scum i think this is a good place to look.

or he's at L-1 and I'm not willing to hammer him at the moment but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Micc]

My original point was scum can do this looking for a claim to better inform there kill. That will be true regardless of site meta.

Right, you’ve shown scum can do it. I’ve shown Town can do it. Hopefully that leads back around to the point I’ve been meaning to make - that this is NAI. If you want to judge my alignment from this, you’re better suited to take a look at the content of my case and how I presented it. I’m wondering if you’ve done that and can post your thoughts?

[Heavy Anaconda]

...I have been looking at how you presented it.
These are my thoughts.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Where did I back off? When he said he was town, I said the appeal to emotion from him sounded fake. What post have I made after my initial post that was backing off of Jones. And in the post that you were responding to, didnt I ask everyone what their thoughts were on the Jones wagon and Jones' response?

FWIW, I dont think either of these are good, but I think Bep's post is worse. I made that case at 155. Bep posts before I flip out about the game state, so if it was my push that was bad, he could have voted there.

You never really pushed it hard. All you did was dump your vote and then after jones’s AtE, you complained about the wagon being weak. @Micc did a similar thing. He never posted his reasons to vote until much later after jones left. I dislike the fact that the people starting the wagon blame the people not on the wagon for the lack of strength. I feel that you should have been showing Jones the reasons he is suspicious rather than telling people to join the wagon. This could be a difference in philosophy, but evidence puts more pressure than just a L-1 wagon. Especially with Zeppin the in the game on not confortable with an L-1 yet. I feel that Billy is almost using the wagon as a way to hide. You’ve made 2 posts really accusing him (155, 173) until you were upset that the wagon wasn’t strong. At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

What did you expect me to do to push it? I cased it, I asked other people both that voted him and some of those that weren't voting him why they either were or weren't voting. You're saying something about evidence, but aside from a guilty, which literally cant exist on D1, what do you expect me to be doing as far as evidence? I laid out how he seemed scummy from before my vote, then I laid out how he seemed scummy after my vote. Also, the shade you just threw at Karnage feels like you may be setting up for a push of Karnage down the line, mostly if Jones flips red. If Jones flips red, I want to revisit your slot before Karnage.

Also, how do I push something if not asking more people to join the wagon? And if your answer is by providing more evidence, how do I do that when the person stops posting?

Conf town - BP
Townread - Micc
Town lean - Karnage
Nulltown - BBM
Null - Arkias, Gyro, Heavy Anaconda(though this one is shading more toward nulltown)
Nullscum - Bepwei
Scumlean - Jones
Scumread -
Conf scum-

[skitter30]

lcpl jones has requested replacement

[bepwei]

Spoiler:

Where did I back off? When he said he was town, I said the appeal to emotion from him sounded fake. What post have I made after my initial post that was backing off of Jones. And in the post that you were responding to, didnt I ask everyone what their thoughts were on the Jones wagon and Jones' response?

FWIW, I dont think either of these are good, but I think Bep's post is worse. I made that case at 155. Bep posts before I flip out about the game state, so if it was my push that was bad, he could have voted there.

You never really pushed it hard. All you did was dump your vote and then after jones’s AtE, you complained about the wagon being weak. @Micc did a similar thing. He never posted his reasons to vote until much later after jones left. I dislike the fact that the people starting the wagon blame the people not on the wagon for the lack of strength. I feel that you should have been showing Jones the reasons he is suspicious rather than telling people to join the wagon. This could be a difference in philosophy, but evidence puts more pressure than just a L-1 wagon. Especially with Zeppin the in the game on not confortable with an L-1 yet. I feel that Billy is almost using the wagon as a way to hide. You’ve made 2 posts really accusing him (155, 173) until you were upset that the wagon wasn’t strong. At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

What did you expect me to do to push it? I cased it, I asked other people both that voted him and some of those that weren't voting him why they either were or weren't voting. You're saying something about evidence, but aside from a guilty, which literally cant exist on D1, what do you expect me to be doing as far as evidence? I laid out how he seemed scummy from before my vote, then I laid out how he seemed scummy after my vote. Also, the shade you just threw at Karnage feels like you may be setting up for a push of Karnage down the line, mostly if Jones flips red. If Jones flips red, I want to revisit your slot before Karnage.

Also, how do I push something if not asking more people to join the wagon? And if your answer is by providing more evidence, how do I do that when the person stops posting?

Conf town - BP
Townread - Micc
Town lean - Karnage
Nulltown - BBM
Null - Arkias, Gyro, Heavy Anaconda(though this one is shading more toward nulltown)
Nullscum - Bepwei
Scumlean - Jones
Scumread -
Conf scum-

I felt your focus shifted from trying to prove him as scum to getting people to vote him. I expected you to be quoting reasons beyond what was stated in your vote post. There is nothing you can do once the person stops posting, but then (this may be more toward micc) being upset about the state of the game because people don’t agree with you was a little annoying.

I will clairify my karnage thoughts in the next post. Mobile sucks sorry.

[Karnage]

I think scum is most likely in Arkias, Bepwei, Anaconda, and Jones. mostly via POE

Gyro is too scummy to be scum if that's a thing though I wouldn't oppose his lynch if the deadline was imminent

Jones was a townread up to his FOS/Unvote of Micc. Not ready to vote him quite yet

I need to sort Ark, Bep, and Ana but I anticipate my vote being placed on one of those three

p-edit: i look forward to it

[bepwei]

@Karnage, you had the defense of Jones during the first wagon, what do you make of that slot at the moment?

I think he's been fairly scummy since then. the FOS/Unvote of Micc really sticks out

This to me seems like a way to not vote a scum buddy but trying not to look suspicious themselves. If LCpl flips scum i think this is a good place to look.

or he's at L-1 and I'm not willing to hammer him at the moment but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ok I understand LCpl isn’t here to defend, but I was looking for something more than a one line response like “yea he’s suspicious because of the reasons already stated” idk if that’s a sheep or not (new term to me) but it stuck out to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

[Karnage]

Ok I understand LCpl isn’t here to defend, but I was looking for something more than a one line response like “yea he’s suspicious because of the reasons already stated” idk if that’s a sheep or not (new term to me) but it stuck out to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

who ARE you suspicious of? or if you prefer, who do you trust so far?

[bepwei]

Ok I understand LCpl isn’t here to defend, but I was looking for something more than a one line response like “yea he’s suspicious because of the reasons already stated” idk if that’s a sheep or not (new term to me) but it stuck out to me.

This doesn’t make me suspicious of you yet,but it is something that I think should be looked into if LCpl flips scum. I am simply stating something I noticed and looking for clarification (which you provided)

who ARE you suspicious of? or if you prefer, who do you trust so far?

Well currently my vote is on Billy. For similar reasons, Micc is in that group. I would have Billy in scum leaning group and Micc closer to null scum. LCpl is confusing which I think is why town is voting him. I’m pretty confused with BB but I am nowhere near ready to vote them. Probably on the only person I trust right now is Arkias, actually.

[Karnage]

Sure, the policy Lynch ends the day getting no information about any of the voters. It’s a get off of jail free card for anyone looking to vote a possible townie out of the game

(scum)

. As you are the most suspicious person right now

in the eyes of the town

, it would be beneficial for you to be able to vote someone without repercussions. I’ll look back at 27 now.

I've made this same mistake as scum. Who other than scum would be looking to vote a townie out of the game? Why the need to specify "in the eyes of the town"?

If you aren’t getting information, push harder on someone. As soon as LCpl exclaimed he was town, you seemed to back off. You want people to push yet you’re afraid to do it yourself. If you need information on day one, you need to press it out of people. If you want a vote you got it sir.

You’re managing to look like town without actually doing anything

. I don’t like the fact that you are looking for people to just follow your vote.
VOTE: Billy Pilgram

If he looks like town, why aren't you townreading him? unless you mean he looks like town to actual townies

VOTE: bepwei

[Heavy Anaconda]

In light of Jones replacing out, it looks to me as though Micc and Jones couldn't share an alignment.
That's what you guys call a hot take. Heh

[Heavy Anaconda]

Actually I mean to say they both couldn't be scum

[Heavy Anaconda]

I must still be on tunnel on Micc mode.

[bepwei]

Sure, the policy Lynch ends the day getting no information about any of the voters. It’s a get off of jail free card for anyone looking to vote a possible townie out of the game

(scum)

. As you are the most suspicious person right now

in the eyes of the town

, it would be beneficial for you to be able to vote someone without repercussions. I’ll look back at 27 now.

I've made this same mistake as scum. Who other than scum would be looking to vote a townie out of the game? Why the need to specify "in the eyes of the town"?

If you aren’t getting information, push harder on someone. As soon as LCpl exclaimed he was town, you seemed to back off. You want people to push yet you’re afraid to do it yourself. If you need information on day one, you need to press it out of people. If you want a vote you got it sir.

You’re managing to look like town without actually doing anything

. I don’t like the fact that you are looking for people to just follow your vote.
VOTE: Billy Pilgram

If he looks like town, why aren't you townreading him? unless you mean he looks like town to actual townies

VOTE: bepwei

Whenever I say “I the eyes of the town” that usually mean the majority of the players agree with that statement, but not necessarily me. In that case I didn’t agree with the majority of the town.

All the people who thought about a policy Lynch is a possible town lycnhcing a possible town. I’m not sure who said it but they said something along the lines of “idc what zepp’s allignment is, I don’t want to go into lylo with him” that to me is I would vote out a townie to give town a better chance of a win.

I guess I mis spoke. The meaning behind the second bolded part is that he is making himself look like he getting information while really just sitting in the back and not getting a whole lot. He was/is blending in with the other more active members of the game. I scumread him because I don’t think he is contributing very much and he is trying to grow his wagon to cover up his tracks. I hope that clarifies.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Bepwei - if I'm scum, am I trying to blend in, or am I trying to deepwolf? Because it seems like you're suggesting both in your explanation to Karnage.

[Karnage]

Whenever I say “I the eyes of the town” that usually mean the majority of the players agree with that statement, but not necessarily me. In that case I didn’t agree with the majority of the town.

who were your more suspicious of at that point?

[skitter30]

thegildedsun replaces lcpl jones