Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[Menalque]

Pops, 2 things mainly

(1) I don’t really get what you’re saying in your para on me

(2) I don’t really get aldusk’s position in your reads list based on what you’ve posted about them

[Wickedestjr]

Intent to hammer me two days into the game before I even respond to anything? wth?

[Menalque]

Specifically

Menalque - This is the only member of the trio who could be scum, I think. His battles with the Wimpy slot sometimes felt, how to say it, more like pushing than sorting. He's made a couple posts I townread on tone, too, though. A lot of Menalque's push on Wimpy came off like "lynch this person I dislike" rather than "lynch this person who is definitely playing to the scum win condition".

If I can try out the fancy perspective slip buzzword, spending time considering whether Wimpy is a weak player as town rather than a weak player as scum seems like a potential perspective slip. It'd make Menalque a weak player too unless he tends to blame mislynch victims for mislynches and as far as I know he doesn't, moreso than anyone else does.

I'm pretty optimistic about my ability to read this slot if I get several game days with him.

I really don’t know what you’re saying here

[popsofctown]

If you were so sure Wimpy was scum taking time to trash hypothetical town!Wimpy's skill seems worth skipping

[Menalque]

I still don’t really get it but maybe that’s bc I’m v tired

[Menalque]

Could you elaborate specifically a bit more on this and particularly the final phrase after the comma

It'd make Menalque a weak player too unless he tends to blame mislynch victims for mislynches and as far as I know he doesn't, moreso than anyone else does.

[popsofctown]

Everyone blames the victim of a mislynch for getting mislynched, at least a little. A few players blame the victim a whole lot. For those players it'd be less scum indicative to trash town!Wimpy since they could do so without also considering their own play poor play, but I don't think you're one of those people.

[Menalque]

So you think it’s scum!indicative that I was trashing town!wimpy’s play?

Man I’m gonna go to sleep otherwise I’m gonna end up asking you to explain this a million times tonight only to get it in 1 go tomorrow

[Menalque]

Would also appreciate if you could explain Aldu’s position in your reads for when I wake up

@icon i can’t remember if I said this today, I think I might have, but can u pls explain ur progression on me

[Datisi]

Icon is probably town with reservations and I need him to explain his progression on my slot

I would still like icon to explain his exact progression on me though

@icon i can’t remember if I said this today, I think I might have, but can u pls explain ur progression on me

go sleep

[popsofctown]

Would also appreciate if you could explain Aldu’s position in your reads for when I wake up

@icon i can’t remember if I said this today, I think I might have, but can u pls explain ur progression on me

I guess maybe he ought to be a tier lower for the bad take on Luca, but he mostly hasn't moved the needle very much. I have a little bit of positive gut feeling going to other direction. Possibly Brandi is just a good artist who is going to cause me to throw a game, who knows.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked, kinda similar question to you, there's been a bit of discussion about Icon/alimdia/Luca, any reads there?

I'm inclined to think alimdia is town. He seems interested in scumhunting and there are a couple specific posts that feel genuine to me. Starting to lean that way with Luca too; the way he progressed to his Alduskkel vote feels genuine too. Iconeum is a hard neutral, maybe even a slight scum lean. I don't feel like he's actually trying to figure me out with his vote and I feel like he's easily capable of doing everything that he's done so far.

My question in 812 was mostly referring to this part:

Ico, you vote me for ‘of all the things to comment on’ I only asked Wimpy about his experience. Just because it’s the only thing I commented on doesn’t mean it’s the only thing I wanted to comment on. It’s simply the only thing I had time to comment on.

Wimpy’s experience was the thing I was most curious about

after reading the first few pages (and I’m not the only person that was interested in his answer).

I feel like I answered this in my 818 and 841. Not sure what you're looking for here.

As much as I do love playing scum, doing so is very stressful for me and it makes me panic about every post I make, to the point that 50-70% of my scum PT's are literally just me going

"buddy help me X did Y what am I supposed to do in response"

. Me being this ~relaxed~ and freely posting at the extent I am is out of my scumrange I think, especially in a game with no daytalk. (God knows how much I abuse daytalk.) Obviously that argument might not be convincing to others, but eh, it was more of a passing comment.

Thanks for explaining that. Is your scum pt with Mena public?

Why is both "me expressing doubt over Wimpy" (potential lack of TMI) and "lack of paranoia with Menalque" (potential TMI) rubbing you the wrong way?

I'm not sure exactly, I haven't closely reread those parts of your iso. I just know that on my first read through the doubting of your Wimpy read felt a little bit forced and later on it seemed like that doubt faded but I'm not sure exactly why it faded. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

And in the 20 pages or so that you and Mena were talking to Wimpy, it just didn't feel like you were interested in sorting Menalque. You say you townread him for tone, but a few posts later admit he can fake tone as scum. And why revisit him a few days later when you can try to figure him out now?

[Luca Blight]

=
The more I look at this post the more the hypocrisy burns a hole in it.

Hypocrisy Is Not A Scumtell

Out of context I’d agree, but Aldu is scumreading me for pushing the same players he’s pushing, which doesn’t make sense.

If he were Town he would relate to my pushes, not scumread me for them, as they mirror his own views. It makes it feel disingenuous, and he’s probably worried that if Wicked or your slot flips green then it will reflect badly on him, so he’s preemptively associating me as the one ‘pushing from the sideline’, to hide the fact that’s he’s doing this more than anyone.

[Datisi]

As much as I do love playing scum, doing so is very stressful for me and it makes me panic about every post I make, to the point that 50-70% of my scum PT's are literally just me going

"buddy help me X did Y what am I supposed to do in response"

. Me being this ~relaxed~ and freely posting at the extent I am is out of my scumrange I think, especially in a game with no daytalk. (God knows how much I abuse daytalk.) Obviously that argument might not be convincing to others, but eh, it was more of a passing comment.

Thanks for explaining that. Is your scum pt with Mena public?

I'll respond to other things in a second

Here's the scum PT from Micro 982: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80975

And a scum PT from my scumgame before that (Newbie 1949): https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=80538
- there's much less memeing in this one so you might spot the panic easier

[Luca Blight]

@Datisi: tbh I wasn't paying that close attention and was mostly just happy that ali was backing me up on my Luca suspicion

Well of course Alim was going to back you up as you were literally agreeing with what he had said.

This hard Alim TR feels really forced/unnatural.

[Luca Blight]

And rushed

[Datisi]

If Luca flips scum this game I'm going to be very sad

okay back to writing responses

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked now has all these problems with Menalque’s earlier approach, so why didn’t he make any mention of his grievances at the time? He’s only basically repeating what Icon said regarding Menalque, but the difference is that Icon had no chance to intervene while Wicked did.

I believe he also said he didn’t see anything else that needed commenting on at the time.

He has all these problems with Menalque’s approach, so your think he would have said something at least.

This is not entirely true. See the bottom of my 818 - I briefly mentioned a few things that I would have spoken about regarding Mena if I had had the time.

I'll admit that Menalque wasn't necessarily a scum read at the point in time that I posted two days ago, but what is the scum motive for me to 'suddenly have all these problems with Menalque' ? If I'm scum, then basically you're saying I waited until everyone had posted and then decided I wanted to scumread Menalque after it became clear that that wasn't a popular opinion anyway? Iconeum is the only person that seemed to share that viewpoint.

I don’t really like Wicked’s subtle shading of Datisi, feels like he’s nitpicking at things to create doubts over the slot while still aligning with the popular opinion.

I just explained this a little bit more in my last post. If I have a slight town read on someone but also have a couple slight reservations, then how am I supposed to handle that? Keep the reservations to myself? Calling people out for 'shading' seems to be one of the new trends in site meta that I'm not a big fan of.

[Datisi]

My question in 812 was mostly referring to this part:

Ico, you vote me for ‘of all the things to comment on’ I only asked Wimpy about his experience. Just because it’s the only thing I commented on doesn’t mean it’s the only thing I wanted to comment on. It’s simply the only thing I had time to comment on.

Wimpy’s experience was the thing I was most curious about

after reading the first few pages (and I’m not the only person that was interested in his answer).

I feel like I answered this in my 818 and 841. Not sure what you're looking for here.

Tbh I don't know what I'm looking for either. Like, I thought the comment of "most curious about" was weird, but not necessarily /that/ AI? Like, I hoped you'd give me a response here that would just swing me one way or the other.

Why is both "me expressing doubt over Wimpy" (potential lack of TMI) and "lack of paranoia with Menalque" (potential TMI) rubbing you the wrong way?

I'm not sure exactly, I haven't closely reread those parts of your iso. I just know that on my first read through the doubting of your Wimpy read felt a little bit forced and later on it seemed like that doubt faded but I'm not sure exactly why it faded. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

And in the 20 pages or so that you and Mena were talking to Wimpy, it just didn't feel like you were interested in sorting Menalque. You say you townread him for tone, but a few posts later admit he can fake tone as scum. And why revisit him a few days later when you can try to figure him out now?

Maybe it faded from my posts, but that slot is still very much "???" in my mind, especially after the replacement got in.

I was not /that/ interested in sorting Menalque because at first I was happy to just freely meme as Town with him - both games we have together I've been scum. Then the ~whatever~ thing happened and he wasn't on top of the priority list. I Townread him partly for tone, yes, while I also believe that he's able to fake it.

Truth be told, I do not think I have the capacity to sort him today. I'm partly hoping that I'll get a better grasp on him when we get a flip or two.

[Wickedestjr]

Shortened version:

...

Datisi:

neutral, slight town lean
...
Datisi, what makes your play here so out of your scum range?
...

Wimpy:

neutral
...

Menalque:

neutral, slight scum lean
...
Menalque, I know that you strongly prefer town. Why did you want to coast this game?


UNVOTE: VOTE: Menalque

Wicked chooses to list 3 players, and comes to 3 neutral conclusions despite putting out an extensive read on all 3, leaving whichever way to lean on any of them as the game goes.

I believe popsofctown made this same point against me. See my response to her later.

But what really sticks out here is that he ends up with 3 neutral reads, and makes no attempt at all to sort them.

This is absolutely not true. I've asked Datisi/Mena both questions and voted for Mena. How am I not sorting them?

Furthermore, it's strange to come to a neutral-(slight) scumlean on both Wimpy AND Menal. If those 2 are scum, Wimpy never replaces out. Ever.

And knowing this, Town!wicked could easily pick up on this and say 'both slight scumlean, but not together'. Fails to do so.

This is a pretty blatant misrep. Where did I say that Wimpy was a slight scum lean?

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: I also think it's a giant stretch to say that I should be townreading Wimpy just because my slight scum read was pushing him so hard.

[Luca Blight]

And i was actually trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel so hard so we could look at other slots, so it really feels like you’re misrepping me there.

Are you trying to say you were just trying to help Wimpy, when you very clearly were also scumreading him?

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

It's about the

way

you've pushed people. Emps pushed Wimpy in a way that showed Emps was comfortable being in the spotlight.

I also want to point out that I Townread Datisi and Icon before Ali did (Ali didn’t give any reads until I called him out on it) so his claim that I’m scared of him also becoming townread due to PoE is not only irrational but also doesn’t really make sense, as I’ve helped to form that PoE. I’m actually wondering if he’s projecting his own fears onto me.

lol how can ali be projecting fear of being PoE'd when ali was on track to being in the townbloc

Do you always do this "no u" kind of thing? Cuz you're doing it to both me and ali.

1) I was trying to get Wimpy to not tunnel while having a scum-lean on him, yes.

2) you said you townread emps for not pushing Wimpy, and now I’ve pointed out that’s false you’ve changed it to townreading emps for pushing Wimpy while being comfortable in the spotlight - this contradicts your original reason. You’re making it up as you go along.

3) I could say the same - I’m currently townread more by the ‘townbloc’ players than Alim, so his accusation could also apply to himself and, as I said, it feels like he’s projecting that fear onto me, because it’s otherwise irrational to suggest I’m scared of him being townread for probing about something I disagree with.

[popsofctown]

If Luca flips scum this game I'm going to be very sad

okay back to writing responses

I was all like
"Luca Blight is the slot you're thinking that about?"
then I realized
she can't think that about Datisi
because she is Datisi
Brain esplode

[Luca Blight]

I’ll be back in about 2 hours to catch up on the rest.

[Menalque]

If datisi is scum here she’s literally destroyed her scumrange

Like wrapped it up, put it in a cannon, fired it into the sun levels of destroyed it

If she leads 2 mislynched at this point then hard defends scum in 5p lylo I’m still not voting for her in 3p lylo