Newbie 1964 [Game Over]

[TheGildedSun]

Could we hear some from Arkias? They haven't spoken in a while and I haven't been able to make a decision on them.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Karnage - kinda curious as to why you haven't declared intent yet. You felt like the Jones slot was scummy and then Gikded hasn't done anything to redeem it, you dont have your vote on anyone and it's like 36 hours until deadline. What are you thinking right now?

Heavy doesnt seem to understand Micc's point, but I dont know if hes misinterpreting it in bad faith.

Wow, I’m not anybody? /s

Do you have rising suspicion of Karnage because of this? A few posts ago you were worried about me having suspicions of Karnage. If the Gilded slot flips red, will that change you opinion of Karnage?

Yes, I do have some suspicion about Karnage because of this, but I messed up at the time I made this post, which I later corrected, because I forgot Karnage was voting you at the time, and you were my second preference for a vote at the time, and that status hasn't really changed. If Gilded flips red, then it definitely increases my suspicion that Karnage chose to park his vote on a slot where there was no interest rather than a slot he thought was scummy despite the fact that it would have been a hammer. I may go check games to see if Karnage has hammered before.

I know your first comment was sarcastic, but I dont think I've been interacting with your slot unfairly. You've been scumreading me over my interactions with the Gilded slot. So clearly from my perspective we're seeing different things in that slot. Honestly, if I keep pressing you on that slot and you keep disagreeing with me, I'm probably just going to end up conf!biasing you toward scum. Although I will add that after Gilded's replace in this was your second post, and both were directed at me. One was you answering my earlier question to you, which I dont understand your answer, but this is a vocabulary issue, so I'm not reading that as AI. Your second was a joke directed at calling me out for not interacting with your slot, but then an interesting question re:Karnage. So I'm more interested in your lack of really commenting on the leading wagon at the moment which is Gilded.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Could we hear some from Arkias? They haven't spoken in a while and I haven't been able to make a decision on them.

What made you list them as null/scum in your reads list then?

[TheGildedSun]

Could we hear some from Arkias? They haven't spoken in a while and I haven't been able to make a decision on them.

What made you list them as null/scum in your reads list then?

As I said my reads list wasn't very well backed and I have very scattered ideas. I left them as null because I haven't gotten a good chance to look into their posts since they've remained pretty quiet. I just felt like I had too many town reads and that someone out of the null group had to be scum.

[bepwei]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

[Billy Pilgrim]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

[Billy Pilgrim]

@Gilded - why is Gyro so high up in your town reads? Your bottom three reads were three of the people voting you. Why is Gyro different? Also, still waiting on a response to 275

Answering about Gyro:
Something similar is happening in another game I am playing (not going to elaborate because not to talk about ongoing games) but basically I view a player who refuses to help town as themself town. It would be too obvious for them to be mafia, whether them a troll or not. Usually mafia plays to conceal themselves, be viewed as helpful, and to blend in with town. Sure, they might sheep/be quiet, but I don't think they would deliberately make decisions such as Gyro to stand out.

About Micc:
Honestly I'm not confident at all with who is town. I just have a gut feeling that someone who is taking a leading role in this game is mafia and that is why it is being thrown so heavily on my slot. I do full heartedly agree with why he was initially viewed as suspicious with the whole "sheeping" talk on BBmolla but I feel like scum is pulling the strings.

My playstyle is more so game solving/asking questions than finding scum, I'm not experienced enough to have a good enough skill to do so. In fact sometimes I am labeled suspicious because of my true neutral playstyle... Sorry if I'm not of much help. One of my setbacks is my fear of being wrong but I'm trying to overcome this.

As to Gyro, check out Mini Normal 2098, it's in my played games. Focus on the Kraeg slot. Terrible D1 where he was sort of deliberately provocative. I ended up falling for it and hard defending him for it. He got lynched and flipped red on D2. They came after me on D3 because of it. Sometimes scum just play pretty scummy and anti-town. I like that you're looking for motivation, but that's probably too high for him.

[Billy Pilgrim]

Here's my concern with Gilded.

Upon entering the game, the slot seemed more concerned with identifying what from their slot seemed scummy then they were with finding scum in other slots. That feels like an attempt to soft pocket their wagon. Here's the problem, I dont understand how you can agree with much of the reasoning against your slot, then nullread the guy that was pushing your slot the hardest. If my reasoning is solid, why am I a null read? And if Micc's reasoning was good, why is that your biggest scumread? That feels off. The VT claim also means that I dont really have an incentive to leave this slot. It kinda makes me think they're not scum, since I think there would have been a pr claim from scum, but I think leaving this alive increases the chances that scum could hit one of our prs. So unless i see something basically scream scum to me I'm staying here.

[Karnage]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

[Karnage]

What about anaconda? If you truly believe I'll flip red, what is your opinion on anaconda's defense of me and the attack on Micc? Do you think they are a potential scum team with me or just a "misguided" townie?

I'm not sure what you flip which is why I was reluctant to state intent earlier. I'm not a fan of anaconda's play and they are in my potential scum pool.

[bepwei]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

LCpl was a nullscum until the AtE when I believed it. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to the stuff after the AtE. I town lean the Gilded slot currently. I never saw the stuff against LCpl that compelling and more of an attack against his play. That could be me not used to the site meta, but the AtE definitely made me feel better about the slot if that’s what you’re asking.

[bepwei]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

I never said that... he may agree with me, but that doesn’t clear him.. sure it makes me feel better about him, but that would be letting him pocket me without Billy having to try.

[Karnage]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

I never said that... he may agree with me, but that doesn’t clear him.. sure it makes me feel better about him, but that would be letting him pocket me without Billy having to try.

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

[skitter30]

prodding arkias (second prod) and gyro (third prod)

[Karnage]

@Gilded - is there a reason why you aren't even voting with 18 hours left?

[bepwei]

The reasoning behind that question is that Billy now started to see the same thing I did. You have yet to really add anything as to why you think the Gilded slot is likely to be scum other than what has already been said. I dislike the inconsistency in the fact that you find them suspicious but don’t vote and don’t really explain your feelings behind it. All we’ve gotten from you about the gilded slot is that the replacement doesn’t make you feel better about it and that the FoS from LCpl.

So is Billy no longer a scum read for you?

I never said that... he may agree with me, but that doesn’t clear him.. sure it makes me feel better about him, but that would be letting him pocket me without Billy having to try.

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

Nowhere in that sentence does it indicate his alignment. The ‘same thing as me’ was included to tell you why I brought up the the connections to the Gilded slot flipping red and your possible alignment a second time.

[Karnage]

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

Nowhere in that sentence does it indicate his alignment. The ‘same thing as me’ was included to tell you why I brought up the the connections to the Gilded slot flipping red and your possible alignment a second time.

it shows you believe he was seeing things from a town perspective because if he was scum any thing he sees would be FAKE!

[Billy Pilgrim]

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

LCpl was a nullscum until the AtE when I believed it. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to the stuff after the AtE. I town lean the Gilded slot currently. I never saw the stuff against LCpl that compelling and more of an attack against his play. That could be me not used to the site meta, but the AtE definitely made me feel better about the slot if that’s what you’re asking.

Why are you town leaning the Gilded slot currently? You didnt see the LCPL things that strongly, so how does it make you feel that the first thing Gilded did was explain why she agreed with people's reasons for scumreading Jones?

Then given that she admitted there wasnt much to her reads list, on what basis are you town reading her?

[bepwei]

"Billy now started to see the same thing I did" doesn't make sense to me when you don't pair it with an unvote. the wording implies that you know he is town yet you're still voting him.

Nowhere in that sentence does it indicate his alignment. The ‘same thing as me’ was included to tell you why I brought up the the connections to the Gilded slot flipping red and your possible alignment a second time.

it shows you believe he was seeing things from a town perspective because if he was scum any thing he sees would be FAKE!

So a scum never should agree with the town? If they are trying to blend in, they would have to agree with town at some point...

[TheGildedSun]

@Gilded - is there a reason why you aren't even voting with 18 hours left?

Because I really am at a loss of who is mafia. But if I had to drop a vote it would probably be on Arkias.

[bepwei]

Quotes:

Spoiler:

At the risk of sounding like I defending LCpl, I personally wasn’t super suspicious of him and I actually trust his AtE. It’s not a wagon I’m was comfortable joining blindly.

@billy this was my initial thought while accusing you. I personally trusted the AtE from Jones and never really felt anything strong enough to vote. I currently am not ready to hammer Gilded and would prefer someone else to be voted out over her. (Hence my vote on you)

But alot happened after the AtE. What are you making of that? Also, are you just town reading because of the AtE?

If so, I can show you tons of games where I saw someone throw up their hands with an AtE and the flip red.

LCpl was a nullscum until the AtE when I believed it. I’m not exactly sure what you mean when you refer to the stuff after the AtE. I town lean the Gilded slot currently. I never saw the stuff against LCpl that compelling and more of an attack against his play. That could be me not used to the site meta, but the AtE definitely made me feel better about the slot if that’s what you’re asking.

Why are you town leaning the Gilded slot currently? You didnt see the LCPL things that strongly, so how does it make you feel that the first thing Gilded did was explain why she agreed with people's reasons for scumreading Jones?

Then given that she admitted there wasnt much to her reads list, on what basis are you town reading her?

@Billy, I townlean gilded because her reasoning is sound and it seemed like a genuine VT reveal to me. Just because she said her predecessor looked scummy doesn’t indicate her alignment. She can’t control what LCpl did. If I don’t find the LCpl evidence compelling and I trust the VT reveal, why should I be suspicious of gilded?

[TheGildedSun]

I feel like I need to post in depth notes on all the players for after I am lynched. (As that's very likely at this point.) Maybe there's a chance it can help town, who knows. (Although my reads will probably be completely off since I'm not so skilled in that yet.) Would any of you be interested?

[TheGildedSun]

I'm not so sure how I feel about bepwei either. I'm worried that they are defending me now for when I flip green they'll appear town while this isn't the case, but then again they could genuinely believe me.

[Karnage]

So a scum never should agree with the town? If they are trying to blend in, they would have to agree with town at some point...

"Hey scum!Billy, I'm glad you are seeing things the way I am! please tell me how your fake reads are changing atm and how your fake read on karnage will change when your partner flips red. I ask this fully aware that as scum, you will likely try to blend in." - bepwei

[Karnage]

Gilded is caught scum. I will hammer tonight, approx 7 hours from now.