Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[emps]

woooo i come back to 10 more pages and i didnt even fully catchup yesterday what fun

[Luca Blight]

1304, 1305: I like Icon's Aldu/Menalque theory here, I think it shows a Townie thought-process.

[emps]

This game is not a fun read

yeah its... painful to say the least.

I also notice Aldu is townreading emps partly for not pushing Wimpy and partly scumreading me for pushing Wimpy, yet I’m pretty sure emps ‘pushed’ Wimpy at least as much as I did, if not more.

It's about the

way

you've pushed people. Emps pushed Wimpy in a way that showed Emps was comfortable being in the spotlight.

ah yes i too enjoy changing my story because j got proven wrong

The PoE of 3 players would be great but I really doubt it's that easy

What's up with the "strong" emps TR?

"emps prob town"

how is that a strong tr lol

[Luca Blight]

And then why does he come to Ico's defense instead of letting Ico defend himself?

Because I was literally asked about Icon.

[Wickedestjr]

@Ico-

It's one thing to scum read me. I get that, it's part of the game. But it's honestly starting to bug me that you are making strong statements about my posts without even double checking the validity of those statements. If you're town, I'd appreciate if you actually be open to the possibility of me being town rather than viewing all my posts through this scum-lens. Literally all three of your comments in this post are showing me that you are intent on scum reading me and aren't trying to see where I'm coming from...

1) Pops made the same comment I did earlier, yes. You never responded to pops, so your answer is invalid.
2) I'm literally going through your ISO looking for those 'questions' you asked to Dat/Mena. You only asked Mena if he's ever been so confident in his read. That's it. Not a single question to Datisi.
So yeah, it IS absolutely true.
3) It's not a misrep. I say you have both of Wimpy/Menal in neutral to slight scumlean territory. Which is exactly true according to your own readlist.

1) This is not true. I responded to Pops here.
2) You really think I would just lie about asking questions that I never asked? I literally quoted my other questions to Datisi and Mena in the post that you're responding to here. I literally handed them to you on a silver platter. I'm going to do it one more time:

Spoiler:

I agree that having 20 pages of Mena/Wimpy/Datisi all arguing with each other was not pro-town at all. The three of them literally had over 90% of the posts in this thread at one point and it was all just repeating the same points over and over again. It's like Wimpy and Mena were both competing to have the last say even if that meant having the same conversation 50 times in a row. News flash: most people can read and are competent enough to form opinions on something without needing to read it over and over again.

---

Datisi:

neutral, slight town lean
-She seems to be genuinely relaxed, I couldn't detect any discomfort or awkwardness. As far as her Wimpy-push goes, I agree with Ico's point that she would be setting herself up for scrutiny if she was scum pushing Wimpy-town, so the confidence expressed here, as one example, feels unlikely to come from Datisi-scum pushing a known mis-lynch. I'm inclined to think it's not bussing either.
-There are a couple small things that feel off to me like the doubt she expressed in Wimpy at some points and her lack of paranoia with Menalque. I'm having trouble explaining why these things are rubbing me the wrong way.
-This is another post that feels a little strange to me. Menalque and I literally just got out of a scum game where our third partner used to say stuff like this.

Datisi, what makes your play here so out of your scum range?

Wimpy:

neutral
-It's pretty obvious he didn't have 200+ games on Mafiascum. There are very few people that have that much experience and his play didn't indicate that either. It felt like he probably played a large portion of those games on some sort of real-time site, especially given this response. I wanted to get a sense of how many of his games were actual slow-paced forum games like this one because that's actually relevant experience in my eyes. If he had 30+ mafiascum games under his belt then that would make me feel much worse about his play here than if he had like 2 games under his belt and wasn't used to the site meta.
-I don't believe that over-defensiveness is a scum tell, but it does feel like Wimpy was more concerned with arguing with Mena/Datisi than actually sorting them.
-On the other hand, some of his defeatist/1v1 posts feel kinda townish to me: see 358 and 640. I also kinda believe him when he says he doesn't care how people read him.

Menalque:

neutral, slight scum lean
-I don't like his overly-confident push on Wimpy.
-I don't like what he's done to the game-state (helping spam the thread, f-bombing the guy that he's confidently scum-reading who has now replaced out)
-I don't like his warning to me here. Not only does it feel like a misrep waiting to happen but I'm still not sure why he makes that post as town.
-Regardless of his alignment, I think he crossed the line in his treatment of Wimpy. It kinda sucks that Wimpy replaced out and is leaving the site. Regardless of how irritable he may have been to certain people, he shouldn't have been treated that way and this feels like the wrong outcome.

Menalque, I know that you strongly prefer town. Why did you want to coast this game?

UNVOTE: VOTE: Menalque

And I tried asking Menalque additional questions here as well.

3) I do feel like you're misrepping me because you criticized me for scumreading both Wimpy and Menal, in spite of their intense interactions, when I pretty clearly said:

Wimpy:

neutral

which is not a scum read.

Honestly, I

am

starting to toy with the idea of a Mena/Wimpy scum team, so I'm not even going to argue with you on this one anymore, though.

[Luca Blight]

I'm actually not getting many scummy vibes from Wicked tbh, but I need a little more output from him before I feel comfortable unvoting.

[popsofctown]

how serious of a reservation is "pocketing" to you Luca? I assumed you were meming but if you weren't that like makes me sad.
I haven't even learned the term "pocketing" before rejoining the site this year. Apparently it's a thing the cool kids do. I don't do it though. As scum I always approximate what I think town me would do as closely as I can. I think that's the most effective way, at least for me, lots of people can play the 5d chess, I don't want to play the 5d chess.
I probably can't sell you on self meta so I'm not going to say "bad", just "sad", it is a frustration of natural harmony when I lose more (or win more!) based on an expectation I do the stuff other people do.
My last scum win I represented a strong townread on a player named azuresky day 1 and one named Nymph day 2+. It was because Azuresky genuinely did town indicative stuff day 1 and Nymph did town indicative stuff day 2. Azuresky liked me more, my third post in the scum PT was "bringing Azuresky to LyLo is probably a win condition since she's townreading my tone and that tends to repeat itself". But I can't bring myself to do things differently than townme would when I roll scum. That seems so dangerous. So I switched anyway. The whole 2019 rules I guess I am supposed to whisper sweet townreads into some slot's ear until LyLo and vote with her for the win, but that would require me to townread NAI posts and phases as scum, and why would you do stuff as scum that you wouldn't do is town, that just makes you catchable when you could be uncatchable?
It was confusing to me when I got accused of pocketing at the end of that game. It's confusing to me here, I probably care more about the idea of me ever doing at all more than the fact I don't have the right alignment for it this game, really. Like if people keep having that attitude about townreads it could stop being possible to win games by townbloccing anymore because you can't be firm on any of your townreads cause it's a risk to your neck as both alignments and then all games will be won by E and not PoE and that is super sad because building a townblocc is like the funnest way to win a mafia game it's like making a club and inviting all your new friends which I do IRL too surely I am not ordering a pizza just for myself in another tab

[emps]

pops when u rep in you read the person you repped in fors stuff as well and it confuses me lmao

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I've been reflecting on the game a little bit and I would just like to add that my Datisi/Mena/Wimpy reads post that I made a few days ago was not a post that I would have made under normal circumstances. Pay attention to the context: I was at L-2 when I wrote that post and a major reason for the votes was that I hadn't contributed anything on the day prior. So yes, that post was a little bit forced because I felt an obligation to show where my thoughts were at even though I didn't have many strong feelings by that point.

[emps]

ok i just read that wallpost with like no context and now im super confused

[emps]

anyways back to catching up on the 15 pages or so that i missed

[popsofctown]

wickedjester is really scummy but also likable please send help

[Wickedestjr]

iconeum can you help me sort jester

he said the things i wanted to hear
but did he know what were the things I wanted to hear??

Wouldn't that make me neutral at worst?

I don't know how you get caught up in this thread and feel that your townread on Datisi has to be hedged

FWIW, in my scum game that just ended (which I'm realizing I've talked about an awful lot ), both of my partners (Menalque and Nibbui/Volpe) were consensus strong-townreads throughout most of day 1 and day 2. So I would say that's a small part of the reason why I'm treading carefully this game.

[popsofctown]

that's just bad mafia
townread who you're going to townread
play to win, don't play like you fear to lose

[popsofctown]

i guess i need to start calling him
estj

[Luca Blight]

@Pops

: I feel bad about saying about the pocketing as I'm obviously glad you're able to townread me and seem to get something from my posts, I'm just unused to someone being able to townread me so clearly and easily as you have this game.

The game seems a bit too 'easy' for similar reasons to what Datisi said - I'm quite possibly wrong about one of my TR's and my bet would be either you or Menalque atm. I've liked your content so far though and I hope you are Town.

[popsofctown]

I almost thru Crown on the ground cause RCE said he townread me based on the first four pages and I got mad and told him I didn't believe him
then i put him at l-1 cause like everyone did what i said that game
he had a confirmable role and the setup was broken for town so we won anyway
i still think you should look at people with townreads that aren't plausible like I've said Iconeum would be much further above neutral if I didn't find his read on my slot suspicious
maybe it's just a terminology difference cause like if it's scum!iconeum I don't think he's trying to generate a vote puppet or bloc i just think it's an artificial read that's artificial, goals and purposes notwithstanding

[emps]

If Luca flips scum this game I'm going to be very sad

okay back to writing responses

honestly same

If Luca flips scum this game I'm going to be very sad

okay back to writing responses

I was all like
"Luca Blight is the slot you're thinking that about?"
then I realized
she can't think that about Datisi
because she is Datisi
Brain esplode

are you drunk or smth

But seriously stop towncasing yourself

It's a begrudgingly marginally useful use of breath in 3p LyLo

D1 it's stupid

agreed

honestly mena doing that just confuses me and doesnt give me a better read

I mean, don’t get me wrong, I think you’re rapidly becoming one of the best scum players on site so you could be scum who’s stepping it up to the next level

But like rather than just acknowledging that that possibility exists I would be trying to show you more that “oh no guys, datisi might be scum here because she’s really good eve tho I do tr her she still might be oh no I’m so confuse about her but I guess she’s town”

As opposed to me here being like “yeah, dats is literally just town”

wasnt there like

a post 3 seconds earlier saying that you have no paranoia abt datisi or smth

and then like

theres paranoia here

[emps]

Wicked
buddy

I assume you meant to link C9++ there

but you literally linked this game as "your scum game"

lmao

This is where I'm at currently:

town lean: alimdia, Datisi
neutral: Luca, Iconeum, emps, popsofctown
scum lean: Alduskkel, Menalque


I'm feeling more confident in my Menalque scum read after reading his posts today. His play here feels very similar to the scum game that I just finished with him. Alduskkel/Menalque scum team is my gun-to-head guess right now.


I'm gonna take a break and watch some tv for a bit. Might make another appearance here in a few hours, but no promises.

why are luca and ico null

what has aldu done so far thats made u sl him

[emps]

im trying to do the quote multiple posts for medium sized wallposts but every time i end up only qupting like 3 things but i thought i quoted like at least 5

[emps]

ok so for some reason scum in the townblock has no motive to push town out of said townblock?

I have no idea wtf you are talking about here. Are you saying Datisi is the scum in the townblock? Have you even read everything?

no, im saying how does datisi have no scum motivation to push someone out of the townblock just because she is in said townblock

i tr datisi lol

[emps]

ugh poor phrasing, just trying to say that like thats a shit reason to tr datisi

[Wickedestjr]

@Alduskkel-

Why were you so sure that Menalque wasn't actually going to hammer you?

@pops-

If you weren't voting me right now, how open would you be to the idea of a Menalque bandwagon/lynch?

it's pretty know because experientially I've read him better given large amounts of data.

in a vacuum, I'll read most players right day one or never will.
Iconeum is a pretty good example of that but it hasn't been scummy this game

No clue what you're saying here.

wickedjester is really scummy

but also likable

please send help

<3

that's just bad mafia
townread who you're going to townread
play to win, don't play like you fear to lose

I

am

townreading Datisi. That's not what we were talking about. You were criticizing the lack of strength I showed in that read and I'm saying that I just got out of a game with two partners who looked very obv-town, so I'm hesitant to strong-town read Datisi. In particular, Datisi's posting style reminds me a little bit of Volpe.

i guess i need to start calling him
estj

Not sure that's gonna stick. "Wicked Jester" has a better ring to it.

[emps]

you are town but i hope you don't design website layouts or anything please my eyes

what was even wrong with lucas readlist design lol

Hm. I was kinda hoping emps would rush in here and push Wicked.

but... why?

[popsofctown]

Scum usually don't get strongly townread. If you identify Gambler's Fallacy in your thoughts you should take steps to extricate it.


I'm less likely than average to lynch Menalque D1 in any game because there's a high chance I course correct on him later. This is less true about most players.