Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

also @wooper y r u townreading sirfetched so strongly?

[skitter30]

i'm not sure scum should be picking in that bracket at all tbh

or, more accurately:
i don't think scum should pick that bracket to begin with anyways since rolecop is a very very very scummy role in this setup so they'd need to pick

like once they're in the bracket rolecop has more utility but looks much scummier so i think they should robably pick ub but i think they should avoid being in that bracket in the first place imo

[skitter30]

I'm also inclined to believe Wooperst's claim so I can add him to the town pile.

you realize that true!claim != town in this setup, right?

[Wooper]

Flubbernugget wants us to think that he acted non-towny in order to secure his PR, this could be the case. His D2 was fine.

standard around how it is allowable for TPRs to act scummy in order to dodge bullets - i don't agree with this approach to reading flubz really because i think his low nk equity is largely due to him being busy irl - i just think he's...passively? scummy

Sirfetch is top town. S_S is useless, he deserve to be scumreaded.

sirf top town is actually kinda fine

ss isn't what i'd call useless at all, he's been playing the game he's just not easy to read in this gamestate. the language of "deserve to be scumreaded" kinda leaves this read on a strangely south-of-null spot given kerset apparently believes they've seen a scum agenda between the last two scum itt. there's no "but he still seems town", or "i think he's evil lurking scum if i'm wrong on one of {tw,aaron}" - just that he's underwhelming and should be scumread for it

Aaron is trying hard to prove that he is unskilled in this game, it looks like agenda crafted by scumteam to clean him.

i like to be vain enough to think if i coached aaron thru d3 i would've done a better job of it

regardless this is kinda disregarding towards the game related content aaron has generated and is a read which HEAVILY works backwards; unless there's a specific meta tell here, downplaying oneself is rarely alignment indicative. aaron is donwplaying himself yes but it's like, a tonal quirk, not him excusing himself from playing the game or smth on the basis of being a lol so confused!! newbie lol!! - he's still been playing and the posts kerset quoted to illustrate their point abt aaron were like.....posts in which he is sorting noms while inviting people to reach out if he's making a mistake/missing things...... i think kerset is scumreading the townier parts of aaron's iso due to a tonal quirk and i have no idea how town!kerset has considered this and decided it's ai

don't let their join date fool you: kerset CAN town and they're pretty astute.

Skitter is fine but hard to read bc of paranoia around her.

this makes me think they haven't read many of skitter's posts... i am constantly paranoid of skitter but i think she's town here. she's just pushing town things. if you've spotted scum agenda and the rest of the list is kinda autotown that's totally valid but this feels like a really strange situation to hedge on a read in; if you're seeing scum in {woopz,aaron,?ss?} i'm kinda just wondering where the "I townread this but I'm paranoid so I might be wrong" is? "i can't read her because of paranoia" feels more like you just can't work out what to do with a read on her; if this is the case i'd like to know why you're holding back kers

Adorable has very very shallow reads but unharmful.

sets a peculiar standard against flubbz in particular but also aaron; if flubbz is town, scum ALREADY KNOW 100% that he is a town power role. him playing scummy is effectively entirely irrelevant which makes me think that there's a higher chance of him just...being scum.

i'd argue that adorable has posted townier noises than flubz but is deeper under the radar. i have no idea how you earnestly reach a position of "flubz is town trying to fly under the radar because he's a town power role who wants to use his town power role" and then also reach a position of "adorable is harmless but has surface reads" when realistically flubz playing scummy in this situation is just straight out scum indicative

double-standard to aaron's style as well: aaron has been transparently more engaged than adorbz with less-surface-level reads and yet his content isn't worth analysing for alignment indicators because ? he's pushing an ? evil scum agenda ? of trying to ? look townie ? for no reason ? - adorbz on the other hand is fine even tho they're totally utr (:

i don't dislike this read itself basically but in context it makes their reads on flubz/aaron look more positioned

Wooper planned this whole course of action for his personal advantage. All he wanted was to shine during massclaim, which he planned for this day but some things got his way. Xayah could clarify herself, if she would get time for it.

- correct at a mechanical level, it's in my best interests to be about as exciting as cardboard for d1-2 then up the spice factor d3. i'm a n2 vigilante. like...what do you expect?
- tEh EvIl ScUmGoD standard vs. nullread on skitter in the style of "i can't read her because i'm paranoid" is another kinda peculiar doubelstandard
- what were you expecting xayah to clarify? she was almost totally utr except when she was pushed and exploded to avoid a lynch - it looked like scumplay and unless she seriously started kicking ass lategame she would have been mislynched (except that we would have been suspicious because she was utr for earlygame then started pushing stuff lategame and would have pushed her and then she would have AtE'd and ? ? ?) - if you don't think my xayah vig was objectively very good and towny i'd appreciated
- what exactly got in the way of the agenda you're seeing?..what is the agenda you're seeing? i appreciate you probably think i'm steering the game. that's because i'm in the mood to, and it's mechanically optimal for a n2 vigilante to start kicking down doors on d3. i don't understand what agenda you're seeing and how you're coming to the conclusion that it makes me clearly scum at the cost of sorting other players thoroughly

Suji is kind of null read for me.
Luca is towny but i would take here the same approach as people do towards skitter.

these are fine but just too hedgy - i'm finding it kinda uncomfortable as i write on that sirf is the only townread you have which you aren't nulling/hedging on but that's kinda whatever

[Adorable]

The players I listed as scum and null are the ones I'm figuring out which ones are scum. I have seen so many town players defend scum in previous games and this was why I was not confident nom was going to flip mafia and I even said this on day 2. I have also defended scum when I was town and ended up getting scum read next day. Aaron claimed Universal Backup who remembered Cop and some players have been doubting his alignment. We could have him invest one of the unknown players so that we can figure out what his alignment is.

I think the hidden remaining scum are somewhere within these players

Flubbernugget
SS
Skitter
Suji
Aaron

[skitter30]

and getting your top placing scum slot to grab rolecop/unibackup is dumb

ya ok this is fair, and what i was thinking too

i think he is that slot
i'm not sure the claim is inherently townie
but i agree that having the top scumpick pick rolecop / ub is dumb so he'd prob have to be scum with whoever's ahead of him in the draft

i think that would be flub/ss/sirfetched
flub i don't really see plannign this

ss maybe
sirfetched idk

[Something_Smart]

Oh I just saw wooper's claim.

Don't get why you claimed that, it's not like anyone would seriously believe Xayah was the scum kill.

[Wooper]

also @wooper y r u townreading sirfetched so strongly?

since i'm allowed to know him: he didn't milk d1 the way i'd expect him to as scum. his d2 was a little underwhelming but overall nut scummy, just more underwhelming: i think his d3 has been towny and his casual opposition of me without compromising his reads is probably town indicative

it's hard to elaborate on off the top of my head. he's convincing me of his reads. i think he's pushing at points which help with AI content. he's not playing his ordinary scumgame (not a massive expansion of it, but still)

every time i question myself on it i come out townreaing him again


pedit:

i think that would be flub/ss/sirfetched

@skitter, remove flubb, add you/me

[skitter30]

Wait do you guys imply that he wanted UB? Looks for me like "I will take this weakling as second choice in case someone takes away my preferred role, it would be lame to be vanilla".

right i forgot about the second pick again

[Something_Smart]

you realize that true!claim != town in this setup, right?

I think the point is that he could easily have just used it as a second scum kill and then claimed VT.

[skitter30]

@skitter, remove flubb, add you/me

i meant literally above him in the order (i.e. aaron is 5 and flub is 1)

but ya you/me/ss (and like nom, i guess) are the people who do that, i think

[skitter30]

idk i don't think i have any meta on sirfetched so that isn't particularly useful to me; i don't feel like i have much reason to tr him from what he's been doing here

[Wooper]

another point abt me/aaron conversation: if you think i'm scum positioning aaron to be the deepwolf, not having him milking a {cop>unibackup} fakepick there is tantamount to thinking i'm stupid >: (

[skitter30]

you realize that true!claim != town in this setup, right?

I think the point is that he could easily have just used it as a second scum kill and then claimed VT.

i'm not sure i'm following.
if there's a second nk and nobody claims vig the vts are going to be scrutinized

[skitter30]

ya ok if aaron would be the {top scum} he's probably town, ub is a not the best thing to pick first as scum imo

[Something_Smart]

if there's a second nk and nobody claims vig the vts are going to be scrutinized

Depends on how many VT's there are I guess.

[Wooper]

idk i don't think i have any meta on sirfetched so that isn't particularly useful to me; i don't feel like i have much reason to tr him from what he's been doing here

i don't think he'd appreciate if i answered that :<
he's a returning player who has a good scumgame and a habit of unapologetically lolbussing

in a vacuum (without me having meta basically) i can understand where the hesitation comes from i guess

does it help at all considering whether this is a returning player scumming, or a returning player towning?

[skitter30]

i mean ... the second nk would have had to come from somewhere, so it would make it incredibly obvious someone's lying if nobody claimed it

[Wooper]

ya ok if aaron would be the {top scum} he's probably town, ub is a not the best thing to pick first as scum imo

exactly my thoughts

this is a big big part of why i want massclaim rn

[Sirfetchd]

It's a dece No.2 I guess? Especially if scum used al their their picks for info gathering. Depends if aaronscum is next to his partner. Can see it in that situation.

[Wooper]

the second nightkill? oh yeah that was me lol, i tried to shoot xayah and stupid autocorrect changed it to "skitter30" AGAINNNN

[Wooper]

It's a dece No.2 I guess? Especially if scum used al their their picks for info gathering. Depends if aaronscum is next to his partner. Can see it in that situation.

if it's a coached fakeclaim i'm a touch surprised he didn't just say he did cop>unibackup tbh

[Sirfetchd]

nvm xayah was next to them ignore that.

[Something_Smart]

this is a big big part of why i want massclaim rn

I don't understand why massclaim would help you figure that out at all. Wouldn't you need flips from me, Flubber, and Sirfetchd?

[skitter30]

does it help at all considering whether this is a returning player scumming, or a returning player towning?

i think i need to reread him, a lot of what he's said feels kinda ~running together~ in my head, if that makes sense
he could be feeling off if he's a returning player and not really like used to current meta, i guess