Newbie 1963 - Game Over

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Uncrowned

[JacksonVirgo]

I am going to look at the interactions between Uncrowned/Myself and Uncrowned/Eth0s in a second and will quote anything I see

[the worst]

Not hammering hi

[the worst]

But what it I secretly AM scum... hhhmmmm...

[the worst]

no.... I just remembered I'm not.... ok, not hammering.

[JacksonVirgo]

That was a ballsy as shit play by me I must say but I am so glad you did what I REALLLY was hoping you would do.
UNVOTE: Uncrowned

You're confirmed town

[the worst]

Why unvote there?

[JacksonVirgo]

Why unvote there?

Dunno actually, habit
VOTE: Uncrowned

[the worst]

How do you feel about fishy dying?

[JacksonVirgo]

How do you feel about fishy dying?

I have no idea why you thought you'd die considering they were confirmed by their role and you are not as much (well to me you are now considering you didn't hammer just now but back then you were not). Any scum with a brain would have attacked Fishyboi and not you.

[JacksonVirgo]

It's sad and depressin' but I believe you've got a brain in you

[the worst]

Do you think scum!Uncrowned considers shooting me instead?

I do have a brain but it's roughly the size of an apricot so we'll see what happens

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you think scum!Uncrowned considers shooting me instead?

I do have a brain but it's roughly the size of an apricot so we'll see what happens

Honestly, I think he did consider it but the ideal play for him would have been to pop FF

[JacksonVirgo]

I think he was relying on the fact he thinks his ISO looks better than mine and you've been actively reading through them and thus thinks you more likely would lynch me today than FF would. Which, personally I would understand because he has been playing well but I am going to be salty as shite if I lose this after getting this far.

[Uncrowned]

If I were scum, I would've shot Worst. Worst said he'd be fine with lynching me D3 and FF had already had some questionable interactions with JV that would've made it easier for me to sway Fish than Worst, from my POV.

It would've been a smart play by JV to kill Worst and then bring that up, especially since he thought I fit the bill for the Bugspray kill earlier in the game. I don't think he saw that far ahead though.

Tentatively: @Uncr, I don't think Eth0s pushed JV in good faith f3 and I think their reaction to this was very honest. Could you talk to me about what you're seeing there?

I'm not surprised by the Eth0s/JV SvS D3. It was the safest play to make by Eth0s, but I'm about to break it open.

He puts JV as his clear Scum Lean. First, this makes it already looks susp towards me as I was the one going in on JV earlier in the D3 stage. Then, he puts me a "N/S" to make us seem aligned in the event that Eth0s gets lynched.

Now Eth0s gets the best of both worlds. If he gets lynched on D3, JV looks more townie because JV voted on him AND they were heavily conflicting, whereas Eth0s was being more neutral towards me. If JV was the one to get lynched, then Eth0s would still get townie cred once JV flipped red and try to push the "JV/Uncr S/S" angle that he said was the easy solve.

JV has done well with his reactions towards other players, but I think that's part of his playstyle. I already exposed his weak attempt at bussing on D2 when he randomly threw Eth0s in as part of his scumteam on D2 with Fuz with practically no reasoning behind it, since that would allow JV/Eth0s to conflict on D3 and in the event that one of them got lynched and not me, give them an easier time in D4 to win during lylo since one of them would look more town.

That's what I'm seeing.

[Uncrowned]

I did no more legwork overnight as I was lowkey paranoid I'd just die.
Uncr ISO incoming.
I'm fine if you guys are interested in crossvoting.
Explaining why you're playing a town wincon is currently more valuable to me than you casing each other. It's hard to believe; one of you is a townie with a guilty and the other is scum who knows who they need to push.

I've been playing with the mindset of gathering info and reads the entire game, and figuring out town motivations behind other players posts. I've pushed for phases to run longer and to wait before making rash decisions. D3 I think everything came together for me and I started making connections between the relationships between other places (JV/Eth0s) and spotting the minor scumtells that are going to win town this game, provided you see where I'm coming from.

I think something big that has gone unnoticed until now is this: Think about every time I've been questioned or put on the spot by somebody. I haven't deflected or disagreed with them, I've seen their point of view and explained my thought processes. Some people take this as over explainy and that's cool, but I see it as giving info and making my stance on matters clear.

Now look at the interactions between myself and JV. On a lot of those topics, he was deflecting and turning things back onto me, causing chaos and not progressing the interaction, always going back to the same safeguard of "I'm voting Eth0s, we're lynching Eth0s". Why? If he was so suspicious of me and turned everything into me being the suspicious one, why would he still end up going for Eth0s, who he gave little to no reasoning for being as part of a scum team besides PoE at the start of D3? If you recall, you'll remember he gave almost no reasoning at all for having Eth0s as scum in D2.

JV's scumplay has been fine but I've spotted the holes in it, and if i'm being honest he hasn't had the greatest defenses to cover it up. It's up to you to see that for yourself.

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[JacksonVirgo]

If I were scum

You are

I'm not surprised by the Eth0s/JV SvS D3. It was the safest play to make by Eth0s, but I'm about to break it open.

He puts JV as his clear Scum Lean. First, this makes it already looks susp towards me as I was the one going in on JV earlier in the D3 stage. Then, he puts me a "N/S" to make us seem aligned in the event that Eth0s gets lynched.

Now Eth0s gets the best of both worlds. If he gets lynched on D3, JV looks more townie because JV voted on him AND they were heavily conflicting, whereas Eth0s was being more neutral towards me. If JV was the one to get lynched, then Eth0s would still get townie cred once JV flipped red and try to push the "JV/Uncr S/S" angle that he said was the easy solve.

JV has done well with his reactions towards other players, but I think that's part of his playstyle. I already exposed his weak attempt at bussing on D2 when he randomly threw Eth0s in as part of his scumteam on D2 with Fuz with practically no reasoning behind it, since that would allow JV/Eth0s to conflict on D3 and in the event that one of them got lynched and not me, give them an easier time in D4 to win during lylo since one of them would look more town.

That's what I'm seeing.

Honestly it's laugable that you're ignoring the fact that you were going aggro on me just as much as Eth0s was yet it's SvS when they do it. I wanted Eth0s pushed because I still wasn't 100% on whether ducky was town or not but they're confirmed to me now so I am dead set on you.

I did no more legwork overnight as I was lowkey paranoid I'd just die.
Uncr ISO incoming.
I'm fine if you guys are interested in crossvoting.
Explaining why you're playing a town wincon is currently more valuable to me than you casing each other. It's hard to believe; one of you is a townie with a guilty and the other is scum who knows who they need to push.

I've been playing with the mindset of gathering info and reads the entire game, and figuring out town motivations behind other players posts. I've pushed for phases to run longer and to wait before making rash decisions. D3 I think everything came together for me and I started making connections between the relationships between other places (JV/Eth0s) and spotting the minor scumtells that are going to win town this game, provided you see where I'm coming from.

I think something big that has gone unnoticed until now is this: Think about every time I've been questioned or put on the spot by somebody. I haven't deflected or disagreed with them, I've seen their point of view and explained my thought processes. Some people take this as over explainy and that's cool, but I see it as giving info and making my stance on matters clear.

Now look at the interactions between myself and JV. On a lot of those topics, he was deflecting and turning things back onto me, causing chaos and not progressing the interaction, always going back to the same safeguard of "I'm voting Eth0s, we're lynching Eth0s". Why? If he was so suspicious of me and turned everything into me being the suspicious one, why would he still end up going for Eth0s, who he gave little to no reasoning for being as part of a scum team besides PoE at the start of D3? If you recall, you'll remember he gave almost no reasoning at all for having Eth0s as scum in D2.

JV's scumplay has been fine but I've spotted the holes in it, and if i'm being honest he hasn't had the greatest defenses to cover it up. It's up to you to see that for yourself.

What holes? I am not scum, I've slipped up a few times yeah but that doesn't mean I am scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

You know what's absolute bullshit though? I can see right now that you're gonna get townread from ducky and I am going to be the saltiest piece of shite, like I respect you're good but ughhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Uncrowned]

What's most telling for me here is the difference between Eth0s' post 1101 and 1106

With JV, he's direct and to the point, he has clear reasons for why JV is scum and wants to conflict with him, since one of them will end up looking better for it.

Then look at how he approaches my ISO. Vague, his points are "adequate" but they don't really suggest anything. It's almost like he's TRYING to not push too hard on me, hoping that in the event that he gets lynched, the remaining players would see that he didn't push too hard on me. It's subtle, but it's an attempt at aligning the two of us in the event he gets lynched.

I called JV's beginning bus attempt on D2 out immediately during D3, assuming that Worst was town. Now that it's confirmed, it turns out I was right.

[JacksonVirgo]

You could have set all this up with them for this exact reason, to say "They're an SvS because Eth0s did x" or that he didn't push you too hard because he slipped up and you're using that in some reverse psychological way. If you check my readlist D2 I believe I actually have Gard as a townread so how the shit was I bussing them.

[Uncrowned]

No, JV. Here's why you and Eth0s was SvS.

You said it yourself, I was aggro on you, and I was supposedly a "suspcicious" person according to you. But for whatever reason, even though you had far less to work with on Eth0s, you inexplicably wanted him to be the one that was lynched. How does that make sense? in what world does lynching eth0s make sense from your perspective as a player when in reality, you should've wanted me lynched?

Easy. Because it's the safer play for you to make. If you and Eth0s start gunning me down together, Worst and Fish would spot that and assume that you're aligned. Hence why Eth0s saw that I was going after you and then decided to put you as his main target of conflict. Again, to make it seem like an Eth0s/Uncr team rather than an Eth0s/JV team.

[Uncrowned]

On D2 you hard Gard in your town group, yes. But then by the end of D2, you swung that POV around to saying that Fuz/Eth0s could be a team.

[JacksonVirgo]

No, JV. Here's why you and Eth0s was SvS.

You said it yourself, I was aggro on you, and I was supposedly a "suspcicious" person according to you. But for whatever reason, even though you had far less to work with on Eth0s, you inexplicably wanted him to be the one that was lynched. How does that make sense? in what world does lynching eth0s make sense from your perspective as a player when in reality, you should've wanted me lynched?

Easy. Because it's the safer play for you to make. If you and Eth0s start gunning me down together, Worst and Fish would spot that and assume that you're aligned. Hence why Eth0s saw that I was going after you and then decided to put you as his main target of conflict. Again, to make it seem like an Eth0s/Uncr team rather than an Eth0s/JV team.

Eth0s could have just as easily gunned down on me because you're both scum and wanted to use this in LyLo, what's your point?

[Uncrowned]

You weren't bussing them outright, either. You put him there to setup your conflict on D3, so that you could say you had suspicions of him during D2, probably hoping that no-one would look back and realize that you hadn't actually given any reasoning up until that point that you thought he was scum.

In fact, you just said it yourself. You had Gardenia as a Townread, but then swung Eth0s around to being a scum team with Fuz? If that doesn't make it even more obvious than man i don't know what to think