Newbie 1965 | River | Over

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.05

Celeste River, Costa Rica

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Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Titus

(2): GuiltyLion, Map Wolf

GuiltyLion

(2): Titus, Rise

TheGildedSun

(1): faüstiv

Not Voting

(2): TheGildedSun, GayBabyJailor,

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-27 21:00:00).

Mod notes:

TheGildedSun is being replaced. Nancy Drew is our backup mod.[/area]

[faüstiv]

map wolf is eh... unsure. on one hand he's made a lot of posts which seem like genuine gamesolve posts but that vote putting Titus to L1 when he was so publically on the fence was bad.

the L1 vote from Map and then the unvote soon after from GBJ makes me think they're not paired up so I'm inclined to believe that that leaves TGS who, admittedly hasn't done anything today (most probably through no fault of her own, might just be busy with IRL stuff) but her d1 was bad.
i think if we lynch TGS/GBJ/map wolf in any order we win the game.

Can you elaborate on why the L-1 vote was bad? I specfically stated that I didn't want a lynch in the post itself. In hindsight, I do get that putting Titus L-1 is super risky if someone accidentally votes her, but I don't really see the vote hurting town.
I agree that Titus/GL being TvT is possible, but I am certainly not convinced of it. Still, I agree that one of TGS/GBJ likely is scum.

the vote was bad because you fencesat on the two throughout the day and threw the vote on when the Titus wagon was gaining momentum. sure you scumread titus more than GL but you still didn't place a vote, so to me that's a fencesit when you're explicitly stating that you believe that at least one is mafia.

362:

Pondering about this game (I will need to read through ISOs), I kind of have a gut feeling that the scum players would want to court me on their side by townreading me.
I really still think Titus hammering BS was the wrong thing. There are two options: Town misplaying is possible, but would suck. The other option is that she is scum intentionally hammering what is likely a doctor, and then trying hard to justify the action as rational play.
Like if you were scum and she was town, you'd want to push her.

388:

I agree with the logic of GL in 370. That said, citing the mod is not really the way to go. Think of it like a guideline for new players, not some absolute rule.

389:

It's about 50/50 whether it's T/T for me (Between GL and Titus). Still, Titus comes off as defensive. You'd be better off admitting that you made a genuine mistake (as this was) as town. GL could be scum, but if you were scum, you wouldn't really need to push Titus in this scenario. I'd to ready to criticize her more if GL didn't do it.

On another note, the second town PR is Tracker/Cop. I can only assume that that player didn't find anything that would be useful for us.

then 393 you vote Titus. You state that you believe TGS could be scum but TGS wasn't voting at that stage. What if TGS hammered Titus and Titus flipped town?

I didn't like the vote or the timing of the vote for that reason.

[faüstiv]

we might need an extension @mod if titus is going to be replaced.

[faüstiv]

also @playerbase - i get it's weekend but please try and post more. we shouldn't really be only on 18 pages at the end of D2. inactivity only serves to help mafia.

even if you haven't got that much to say, keep the discussion flowing.

[Plotinus]

I will freeze the deadline at 48 hours if TheGildedSun's slot is still empty then, and there can be an extension if the replacement requests it. Same thing for Titus if she doesn't return.

[faüstiv]

thanks

[Plotinus]

Also if a lynch happens while there are any empty slots then night will last until at least 24 hours after they're all filled.

[Rise]

I'm so sorry for my inactivity. I'm overseas rn and I can only check in this game at certain times. Current thoughts: we're not in a good state right now. The deadline is so soon but we still all have different opinions. I've been thinking and think maybe we all need to take a step back to work together. I know I've been a bit aggressive myself but obviously now is not the time for it. Will return soon with comments on faustiv's posts.

[Map Wolf]

the vote was bad because you fencesat on the two throughout the day and threw the vote on when the Titus wagon was gaining momentum. sure you scumread titus more than GL but you still didn't place a vote, so to me that's a fencesit when you're explicitly stating that you believe that at least one is mafia.

then 393 you vote Titus. You state that you believe TGS could be scum but TGS wasn't voting at that stage. What if TGS hammered Titus and Titus flipped town?

I didn't like the vote or the timing of the vote for that reason.

Well if someone hammered Titus, then they'd get policy lynched next day. That's why I didn't fear a hammer. As for the fencesitting, you're right on it. I didn't feel like committing to a vote before that point.

[Rise]

@faustiv

About TvT: Maybe I'm dumb but I still don't get your reasoning that TvT Titus/GL is most likely. Why do people being hesitant to vote/take strong sides point to TvT? I know you said scum might want to watch it unfold and throw in a vote at the end to not get their hands dirty but how is that the best/most obvious tactic for scum? At this current point, all they have done is drag it out long enough for the focus to shift which is not in their favour at all. I'm just not getting it.

[faüstiv]

@faustiv

About TvT: Maybe I'm dumb but I still don't get your reasoning that TvT Titus/GL is most likely. Why do people being hesitant to vote/take strong sides point to TvT? I know you said scum might want to watch it unfold and throw in a vote at the end to not get their hands dirty but how is that the best/most obvious tactic for scum? At this current point, all they have done is drag it out long enough for the focus to shift which is not in their favour at all. I'm just not getting it.

ok try and think of it from a scum perspective.

so say you're in a game and you're scum and player A and player B who are both town are arguing and scumreading each other. let's say this argument dominates the day. are scum more likely to jump in and risk disrupting the argument or are scum more likely to see which way the argument goes and then lynch the one which comes off as the most scummy.

i feel if it was TvS then we'd be seeing at least one other person taking more of a side. no one has. case in point GBJ voted titus. map wolf then voted titus. GBJ then quickly unvoted titus, what does that tell you about him? also read map wolfs posts, he's unsure too. i feel scum would be making more of a stand to try and wrestle the lynch in scums favour but no one is. everyone's content to sit back and let the argument dilute the chat.

another reason why i think this is TvT? because two towns dominating the chat is good for scum. scum aren't being questioned. scum aren't getting nervous. the day's been diluted by this argument and no one's jumping in. why? because they know if they jump in and take a stance their slot will come under more scrutiny. that's where I believe the gamestate lies; scum want to see this argument play out and lynch the loser. it also saves scum trying to force a lynch through because in a TvT situation like this, lynching the loser does not require scum to get their hands dirty.

[faüstiv]

LYNCHING
With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Blatant Scum (3): Rise, GayBabyJailor, Map Wolf
TheGildedSun (3): faüstiv, Blatant Scum, GuiltyLion
Map Wolf (1): Titus
GayBabyJailor (1): Gjt

Not Voting (1): TheGildedSun

this is the votecount in 250. 3 votes on TGS.

my vote came in 204.

BS vote came in 211.

Guilty voted in 226.

that's quite a quick vote progression.

BS flipped town already, so we all know at least one person on that wagon was town.

so why the delay in voting TGS, a slot no one townreads? answer - mafia want us to vote in Titus/GL because they're both town. there's a resistance of people to sheep me, despite no one TRing TGS, because TGS is mafia.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ego

[GayBabyJailor]

yes faustiv

VOTE: TGS

[GuiltyLion]

Hi all, sorry for my inactivity, been a busy weekend. I've only skimmed a bit but I'll do in depth reading and responding later today. Long story short I think faustiv is definitely town without a doubt and I have some thoughts on his reasoning and TGS push that I'll share later but overall I think I'm on board and will move to TGS. More to come later today

[Rise]

@faustiv
Ok I think what you're trying to get at, but this is kind of WIFOM, yes? (Not 100% sure I'm using it in the right context but eh) I think I get where you're coming from but I'm gonna try and use the same angle on the same situation.

See if this was TvT and I were scum, I wouldn't want the fight, I'd want the lynch. I'd hard push whichever case I found stronger and had a better chance of winning. I'd even feel better doing so because I have a partner out there who can take a slightly different approach but ultimately join me. I'd want the lynch while it's a hot topic so in this case, I'd honestly just joined Guilty after the first few posts and never looked back.

If this was TvS though, I'd actually feel hesitant about joining a side. Do I pick my partner's side? Obviously I want to. Also when would I do it? I'd want to blend in since I don't have "backup" in the voting group so I probably wouldn't be the first to take a stance. This causes dragging. This actually adds to my case why I think it's TvS.

Also just to take it from a different angle, can we just agree it's hard to take sides on this situation? I mean, actually, you were fence sitting too. So, assuming you're town, why aren't you using yourself as proof picking a side is difficult?

Anyways it's clear I won't have my lynch choice for today. I'll settle for compromise since I do believe there's another scum out of Titus/Guilty. Inclined to pick between GBJ/TGS.

Right now I'm a bit more sold on TGS too but at the same time, I don't think it's fair to be attacking a slot that can't defend itself right now.

Think we should wait and have the replacement say a few words.

[GayBabyJailor]

faustiv's theory relies on titus being a pr btw

[Plotinus]

PvtUrist replaces TheGildedSun! Please welcome them!

[Plotinus]

I've extended the deadline to (expired on 2019-11-27 21:00:00) on request. I've edited the last votecount to reflect this, and the OP. Previous vote counts will still have the old time.

[PvtUrist]

Howdy folks.

I'll outline my case, then will fully elaborate in around 5-6 hours. I'll give my readlist and what I believe should and should not happen today, so feel free to interact with me about why I believe so. For now, for what is and isn't happening;

- No Titus lynch is going through today.

- No compromise lynch (my slot) is going through today.

- One of the SE is being lynched today; I believe they are both scum and will explain why (briefly now, fully in ~6 hours).

[PvtUrist]

Readlist;

{faüstiv} obvtown/universal town read
{Rise} town
{Titus, GBJ} town/not universal town reads
{GL, MW} scumpair

[Map Wolf]

Readlist;
{GL, MW} scumpair

Can you explain why that's your view? If we were both scum (which I am not), wouldn't it make more sense for us to disagree more? The only problem I'd have with a lynch of GL is that there's a chance that he is town. Perhaps a better chance than you being town for all I know.

[PvtUrist]

I probably won't need to explain my faüstiv/Rise townreads unless someone ask of one. They're both obvtown and should not be considered ever as lynchees in the remainder of this game.

GBJ is mild townread throughout the game:not obvtown like faüstiv/Rise, but moreso by POE.

I would have done exactly the same at the end of D1 as Titus, had I been in her situation. Throughout D1, I was convinced the scumteam was GL!BS, and would have hammered BS perhaps even if he made a hard claim. Again, not completely obvtown, but town by mind-meld and POE.

As for scumreads, my first ping on MW was the unnecessary readlist of #42, but I disregarded throughout D1 as I believed BS was scum. For GL, he pinged scum throughout the entire game. Mind you, they've both been great at hiding their intentions behind townlike posts, and even better at distancing eachother.

Will elaborate on this later (including an entire case on why GL!MW are scum), so feel free to ask me anything before then.

[Map Wolf]

I think if Titus is town,

then there is a good chance that

the scum pairing might be GL and Rise/TGS.

I want to also think about GL. What if he was scum? What would the state of the game then be? I can see it being possible that his way of trying to townread players is a way for us to do that in return. Feels like he assumes the best in everyone, except Titus (although I don't blame him too hard for that).

I am kind of tempting to join the wagon on TGS, but there is kind of an issue with that in theory. If we assume one of GL/Titus is scum, then a mislynch today could essentially force us to choose between one of them tomorrow. That would not be that great of a prospect for us, so if TGS was town, then she'd be the perfect push for today.

I honestly wouldn't mind lynching GL and then potentially Titus tomorrow. That might get us the best chance of winning.
UNVOTE: Titus

[PvtUrist]

gtg for now, will be back in a few.