Newbie 1965 | River | Over

[GayBabyJailor]

fine, I'll do it myself

Intent to hammer

[Map Wolf]

Messed up the quote in 524. Please give a few more hours before hammering though.

[GayBabyJailor]

i know im not instahammering guilty today lol

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.08

Amazon River, South America

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Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

GuiltyLion

(3): Titus, Rise, PvtUrist

PvtUrist

(1): GuiltyLion

Map Wolf

(1): faüstiv

Not Voting

(1): Map Wolf, GayBabyJailor,

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-27 21:00:00).

Mod notes:

PvtUrist replaces TheGildedSun. Nancy Drew is our backup mod.[/area]

[GuiltyLion]

Alright this is an important post so please listen up y'all and reread this if I am lynched.

I believe now that the team is Map Wolf and PvtUrist.

Faustiv has raised a lot of good points about why Map Wolfs fence sitting on d2 is suspicious. In re-evaluating Titus I've noticed a lot of the same things: Map Wolf is always diplomatic and acting as if he is considering multiple options, but he never really commits to things or initiates action until it is clear how other players are thinking. This is hallmark newbie scum behavior and what was pinging me a lot in the early game. Reread my interactions with him on D1.

It's also noteworthy how he is positioning himself to vote me now instead of PvtUrist. He's trying to argue that there must be a scum in GL/Titus - why? Why does faustiv guessing that Titus is a PR mean that I am suddenly more likely to be scum? Map Wolf has never actually stated a real reason he has scumreading me and his progression on my slot does not follow a believable town trajectory.

PvtUrist came into the game in a tough spot, his slot under scrutiny as his predecessor barely engaged at any point. His actions were to:
- defend and buddy Titus (to the point of absurdity - trust me there is no universe where PvtUrist believes that hammer was pro-town)
- throw shade on my slot
- distance from Map Wolf (also notice how when PvtUrist shows up and claims to scumread Map Wolf, Map Wolf is immediately there to argue back - and his position is "well I'm not scum but GL might be", without considering that PvtUrist himself might be scum).

PvtUrist wants to lynch me today while leaving himself room to bus his partner tomorrow if necessary. The problem this team is going to have is that they should have no more viable mislynches if I am lynched today.

Faustiv is obvious town. Scum would never save Titus in the way he did nor openly speculate about her being the other PR. If faustiv were scum and thought Titus was a PR, he'd either hammer or push her in order to get the claim. confirming her as PR (and even sacrificing himself to get rid of her) would be a huge win for scum. He's never scum this game. He'd also likely just turn to lynch me here instead of pushing onto another slot. All of his game solves are honest and genuine. He should never be lynched this game.

GBJ is also clearly town at this point. Read my last explanation of my townread on him. It's hard for me to explain and I do not have as much time now as I'd like, but that slot is not flipping scum either.

Rise I believe is town due to lack of any clear partner possibilities and the fact that she pushed on me

before

anyone else did. She's wrong but she's town.

If you three can agree to never lynch eachother then scum has no path to winning this game. Titus (assuming she is town) would be the most mislynchable slot remaining, but if she is the other PR then scum will be forced to kill her or risk getting caught.

My guess is their plan to win is to try to get Rise or GBJ to vote eachother in LYLO. As my dying wish if I am hammered today, I want the two of you to

promise

that you won't lynch each other over map wolf or PvtUrist. If I can have that guarantee from both of you I'll accept eating rope today and apologies from Rise and Titus in the post game.

Quoting this again for posterity. It says all I need to say and Rise I really goddamn hope you read this and internalize it once you see how wrong you've been about me and everything I've said this whole game.

Titus, you've played awful this game. You killed a PR and are townreading scum. I expect so much more of you and I will continue to argue that the hammer is a terrible move post game because you're straight up wrong.

[GuiltyLion]

Faustiv is exactly right that Map Wolf is afraid to hammer me because he knows I'm town

[GuiltyLion]

I'm honestly too lazy to respond to everything in Urists case right now but I will point out two things:

So much of his case is written by assuming that I'm scum first and foremost and then using that assumption to write a narrative for my play. That's faulty logic and it should be exposed as such upon my flip.

Townreading Blatant is not scummy. I gave explicit reasons as to why the case on him was bunk and I was vindicated by being right. It's ridiculous that you all lynch against my wishes d1 and then lynch me d2, that alone should speak to the fact that scum is controlling the gamestate and that I am town.

[GuiltyLion]

Scum require 3 mislynches, therefore GL's plan would be based around that.

This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. This is not how someone reasoning in good faith would construct an argument.

[GayBabyJailor]

alright ive thunk on it and I would prefer a mapwolf lynch today, but guilty is an ok lynch if yall dont want to change

VOTE: map wolf

[GuiltyLion]

One scum in Ptv/Map. Not sure whether they’re both maf yet.

They're both maf.
They're both maf.
They're both maf.

Unless someone besides Titus is a PR, in which case she may also be maf.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Map Wolf

[GayBabyJailor]

ok map wolf is definitely getting bussed at this point, the question is who is the scum pushing map wolf

[GuiltyLion]

Here's how this is going to go.

Unless Titus or Rise sees the light, you lynch me because Map Wolf is obviously going to vote me to save himself. (I guarantee PvtUrist stays on me here despite claiming to scumread both of us equally)

I flip town and either faustiv or Titus dies depending on the setup.

You lynch Map Wolf in LYLO.

The other of faustiv/Titus dies.

You lynch PvtUrist for the win.

Rise, if you vote GBJ at any point this game I am going to be salty with you postgame. Warning you now

[GuiltyLion]

ok map wolf is definitely getting bussed at this point, the question is who is the scum pushing map wolf

Also if this is the point of view then the correct play is still to lynch Map Wolf first and then resolve me vs Pvt tomorrow

[GayBabyJailor]

indeed that is my thought

[faüstiv]

fine, I'll do it myself

Intent to hammer

why did you unvote?

[faüstiv]

honestly GBJ is pinging me now

[GuiltyLion]

just thought of more reasons to call out PvtUrist

-

D2 consists of a complete change of playstyle from passive to aggressive, pushing for Titus's mislynch by appealing to authority

(of which he denies), and

no other reasons to scumread Titus

. Also denies town town-aligned interaction for the majority of D2, then switching to the policy lynch come deadline (because there were no good discussion during D2, which was caused by whom?)

- I already explained the change in play style was due to anger and suspicion about how scummy that hammer was and the fact that nobody else besides faustiv was really pushing things I wanted pushed so far this game
- It's dishonest to blame me for lack of discussion. If you think there was "no good discussion" during D2 that falls to the players who weren't discussing anything. I'm not telling people they can't post or talk about other things. I've contributed so much to this game and put so much effort in that to blame me for other people not playing is ridiculous and insulting. Titus is barely playing. TGS didn't play. GBJ just posts one liners. Map Wolf goes in and out of inactivity and sits on fences. None of that is my fault or due to my play.

@faustiv who is town out of Map Wolf / PvtUrist if GBJ is pinging you? I really don't see how GBJ is scummier than either of them together or in a vacuum.

[GuiltyLion]

Notice his late D1 reads revolving to townreading obvtown (faustiv and Rise)

This is also a misrepresentation of my ISO. I wasn't really ever fully townreading Rise until mid or even late D2 probably. I was still suspicious of her at end of D1 as evidenced towards all my questions towards her:

can all of you listing TGS as one of your top strongest townreads give an explanation of who TGS scumreads and why? and consider the fact that TGS won't even commit to 3 townreads of her own?

@Rise - in your mind, what would be different about my behavior assuming that I were town and trying to look for scum? Like yes, duh I am trying to push on players who are taking weak stances or not genuinely engaged in solving the game,

because that's how you catch scum

also you still haven't pointed out where I've been manipulative. I am plenty of annoying things - direct, confrontational, aggressive, etc, sure - but I do not believe my play is at all manipulative and it's questionable that you threw that my way without more explanation

actively trying catch players out like "you know you're playing bad and that's scummy right?"

Also wasn't this basically the case on Blatant in a nutshell lol

[Rise]

Sorry guys fell asleep. Haven't caught up with the latest but rn I want to hold up a giant sign that says STOP. Please no one hammer anyone without giving sufficient announcement, ok please and thank you.

[Rise]

Ok, nah guys, what are you doing? Gonna repeat what I said earlier: we NEED this Guilty lynch. Rn, I'm convinced he's scum and it's honestly concerning how hard he's resisting death.

Even if you think he's town, understand that by him flipping town, it'll give his "will" a lot of validity. I will personally say if I'm alive, I will follow it. Rn, I'm not buying it at all. It's way too certain for something that came out of nowhere. Remember, before Pvt came in, Guilty said MW was one of his strongest TRs and now he's literally turned his back and said he is definitely scum. How does that make sense? Seems to me like he TR'd Map when he was working in his favour (on his side, voting Titus) and now is disposing him cause it'll help him live. That also screams his TRs and SRs aren't real. In fact, I remember getting SR'd like 2 times for disagreeing with him for further proof.

We can deal with Map later. The truth is we will not win without Guilty lynch today. (Yes, it's really that serious)

[GayBabyJailor]

fine, I'll do it myself

Intent to hammer

why did you unvote?

if by why did i unvote you mean pvt, it's because i tr him more than i did tgs earlier

[GayBabyJailor]

UNVOTE: map wolf

feeling unsure about this now

[GuiltyLion]

Ok, nah guys, what are you doing? Gonna repeat what I said earlier: we NEED this Guilty lynch. Rn, I'm convinced he's scum and it's honestly concerning how hard he's resisting death.

because I wouldn't resist death if I were town?

Remember, before Pvt came in, Guilty said MW was one of his strongest TRs and now he's literally turned his back and said he is definitely scum. How does that make sense?

I was waiting for someone to point this out. The truth is when I stepped back from scum!Titus view of the game it changed a lot -> I didn't see any other real viable partners for TGS and I didn't believe Map Wolf and Titus were aligned together. If I fix my view around faustiv's POV where we say "okay, Titus is likely the only viable candidate for PR and she's probably town as a result", it makes me look at Map Wolf's play in a whole different light.

I was also scum reading Map Wolf for a lot of D1 and I went back and relooked at the stuff I called out early game and still find it indicative.

In fact, I remember getting SR'd like 2 times for disagreeing with him for further proof.

Yes because you've done nothing but push back when I've drilled on scummy players this game and then turn around and call me scum. FMPOV that's always going to look like scummy play because I'm town.

We can deal with Map later. The truth is we will not win without Guilty lynch today. (Yes, it's really that serious)

We could also win if you just listened to me and lynched scum!Map followed by scum!Pvt.

I think you know deep down that I'm town and you just don't want to admit it.

[GuiltyLion]

fine, I'll do it myself

Intent to hammer

why did you unvote?

if by why did i unvote you mean pvt, it's because i tr him more than i did tgs earlier

why do you TR PvtUrist?