Newbie 1965 | River | Over

[GayBabyJailor]

Ok, nah guys, what are you doing? Gonna repeat what I said earlier: we NEED this Guilty lynch. Rn, I'm convinced he's scum and it's honestly concerning how hard he's resisting death.

because I wouldn't resist death if I were town?

Remember, before Pvt came in, Guilty said MW was one of his strongest TRs and now he's literally turned his back and said he is definitely scum. How does that make sense?

I was waiting for someone to point this out. The truth is when I stepped back from scum!Titus view of the game it changed a lot -> I didn't see any other real viable partners for TGS and I didn't believe Map Wolf and Titus were aligned together. If I fix my view around faustiv's POV where we say "okay, Titus is likely the only viable candidate for PR and she's probably town as a result", it makes me look at Map Wolf's play in a whole different light.

I was also scum reading Map Wolf for a lot of D1 and I went back and relooked at the stuff I called out early game and still find it indicative.

In fact, I remember getting SR'd like 2 times for disagreeing with him for further proof.

Yes because you've done nothing but push back when I've drilled on scummy players this game and then turn around and call me scum. FMPOV that's always going to look like scummy play because I'm town.

We can deal with Map later. The truth is we will not win without Guilty lynch today. (Yes, it's really that serious)

We could also win if you just listened to me and lynched scum!Map followed by scum!Pvt.

I think you know deep down that I'm town and you just don't want to admit it.

ewwwwwwww

[GuiltyLion]

It's ridiculous that you all lynch against my wishes d1 and then lynch me d2, that alone should speak to the fact that scum is controlling the gamestate and that I am town.

Rise you need to seriously think about this

[GuiltyLion]

GBJ why is that ew?

[GayBabyJailor]

really? "I think you know deep down i'm town, you just don't want to admit it." this is just so manipulative

[GayBabyJailor]

also not a fan of the rolling eye emotes you have

[GuiltyLion]

I'm going to be so angry if we lose this game. I will take some responsibility for my lynch as I haven't tried very hard to make friends or persuade people not to vote for me, but I am fucking tired of how I and Faustiv are the only people actually posting cogent, reasonable takes over and over again to be ignored by Rise/Titus. I'm not an idiot, I know how to push and look for scum and the fact that you all went and derplynched BS and fought me at every turn when I tried to point out how it wasn't likely he was scum, then fought me at every turn when I tried to pressure Titus for an objectively shitty hammer only to turn it onto me for ??? reasons other than I am playing loud and aggressively is just beyond frustrating.

@GBJ even if it is manipulative it's the truth. I've tried over and over and over again to get Rise to drop her paranoia of me and listen to what I have to say and she simply won't do it. It's sick of it.

[faüstiv]

just thought of more reasons to call out PvtUrist

-

D2 consists of a complete change of playstyle from passive to aggressive, pushing for Titus's mislynch by appealing to authority

(of which he denies), and

no other reasons to scumread Titus

. Also denies town town-aligned interaction for the majority of D2, then switching to the policy lynch come deadline (because there were no good discussion during D2, which was caused by whom?)

- I already explained the change in play style was due to anger and suspicion about how scummy that hammer was and the fact that nobody else besides faustiv was really pushing things I wanted pushed so far this game
- It's dishonest to blame me for lack of discussion. If you think there was "no good discussion" during D2 that falls to the players who weren't discussing anything. I'm not telling people they can't post or talk about other things. I've contributed so much to this game and put so much effort in that to blame me for other people not playing is ridiculous and insulting. Titus is barely playing. TGS didn't play. GBJ just posts one liners. Map Wolf goes in and out of inactivity and sits on fences. None of that is my fault or due to my play.

@faustiv who is town out of Map Wolf / PvtUrist if GBJ is pinging you? I really don't see how GBJ is scummier than either of them together or in a vacuum.

yeah i think I'm overthinking it tbh. GBJ is playing weird but I think he's town.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.09

Amazon River, South America

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

GuiltyLion

(3): Titus, Rise, PvtUrist

Map Wolf

(2): faüstiv, GuiltyLion

Not Voting

(2): Map Wolf, GayBabyJailor

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-27 21:00:00).

Mod notes:

PvtUrist replaces TheGildedSun. Nancy Drew is our backup mod.[/area]

[faüstiv]

I'm going to be so angry if we lose this game. I will take some responsibility for my lynch as I haven't tried very hard to make friends or persuade people not to vote for me, but I am fucking tired of how I and Faustiv are the only people actually posting cogent, reasonable takes over and over again to be ignored by Rise/Titus. I'm not an idiot, I know how to push and look for scum and the fact that you all went and derplynched BS and fought me at every turn when I tried to point out how it wasn't likely he was scum, then fought me at every turn when I tried to pressure Titus for an objectively shitty hammer only to turn it onto me for ??? reasons other than I am playing loud and aggressively is just beyond frustrating.

@GBJ even if it is manipulative it's the truth. I've tried over and over and over again to get Rise to drop her paranoia of me and listen to what I have to say and she simply won't do it. It's sick of it.

honestly guys I don't see this post coming from scum like ever.

[Rise]

1. You're building counter wagons to escape death
2. If I were in your shoes and was actually town, I'd say hammer away if it means you'll believe me. Death gives firm validity to your arguments. Especially when you have such strong ones as you do right now.
3. The MW reasoning screams "I made this up on the spot." It's basically just "somewhere along the way, I changed my mind but just believe me ok"
4. Bro...no. When have I unreasonably pushed back?
5. Ew is right. Btw no, I will not "admit deep down I think you're town," because I don't. Deep down, I think you're scum.

If you're gonna quote my neutral language, it's because I'm catering to the people who are scared about lynching you to say there is literally nothing to be scared of. No downsides, none.

[Rise]

Sidenote: Guilty manipulation is real. He keeps insisting that I'm stupid to discredit me/insinuate "if you're not stupid, you'll agree with me."

[faüstiv]

Ok, nah guys, what are you doing? Gonna repeat what I said earlier: we NEED this Guilty lynch. Rn, I'm convinced he's scum and it's honestly concerning how hard he's resisting death.

Even if you think he's town, understand that by him flipping town, it'll give his "will" a lot of validity. I will personally say if I'm alive, I will follow it. Rn, I'm not buying it at all. It's way too certain for something that came out of nowhere. Remember, before Pvt came in, Guilty said MW was one of his strongest TRs and now he's literally turned his back and said he is definitely scum. How does that make sense? Seems to me like he TR'd Map when he was working in his favour (on his side, voting Titus) and now is disposing him cause it'll help him live. That also screams his TRs and SRs aren't real. In fact, I remember getting SR'd like 2 times for disagreeing with him for further proof.

We can deal with Map later.

The truth is we will not win without Guilty lynch today. (Yes, it's really that serious)

So what's your read on Map Wolf?

[GuiltyLion]

2. If I were in your shoes and was actually town, I'd say hammer away if it means you'll believe me. Death gives firm validity to your arguments. Especially when you have such strong ones as you do right now.

I've already said that if you promise not to vote outside of PvtUrist/Map for the rest of the game.

The thing that's frustrating is that I have not gotten my desired lynch once this entire game largely because of you and Titus. I don't think you are stupid but I think you have not once ever tried to work with me this game. From the very beginning when I was right on Map Wolf and right on Blatant Scum.

[GuiltyLion]

Like, it shouldn't take my death for you to take my arguments seriously, and you just won't do that.

[faüstiv]

Sidenote: Guilty manipulation is real. He keeps insisting that I'm stupid to discredit me/insinuate "if you're not stupid, you'll agree with me."

If Guilty is scum then he has a partner. Who is it?

I'm going to take a look at the voting patterns on this wagon.

[GayBabyJailor]

Sidenote: Guilty manipulation is real. He keeps insisting that I'm stupid to discredit me/insinuate "if you're not stupid, you'll agree with me."

If Guilty is scum then he has a partner. Who is it?

I'm going to take a look at the voting patterns on this wagon.

If guilty is scum, the partner is map wolf.

[Rise]

I'm going to be so angry if we lose this game. I will take some responsibility for my lynch as I haven't tried very hard to make friends or persuade people not to vote for me, but I am fucking tired of how I and Faustiv are the only people actually posting cogent, reasonable takes over and over again to be ignored by Rise/Titus. I'm not an idiot, I know how to push and look for scum and the fact that you all went and derplynched BS and fought me at every turn when I tried to point out how it wasn't likely he was scum, then fought me at every turn when I tried to pressure Titus for an objectively shitty hammer only to turn it onto me for ??? reasons other than I am playing loud and aggressively is just beyond frustrating.

@GBJ even if it is manipulative it's the truth. I've tried over and over and over again to get Rise to drop her paranoia of me and listen to what I have to say and she simply won't do it. It's sick of it.

honestly guys I don't see this post coming from scum like ever.

Squint maybe? You just gotta look a little harder.

About Map: sorry if it's not but ughh if this an attempt to shift the focus back onto MW then I don't even want to answer because it won't help us at all.

[Rise]

@Guilty, Also you don't get how much I've tried to work with you. From early D2 onwards I've been trying to see things your way. To say I've never agreed with you or given you a chance is straight up lying. If working with you means I gotta agree with you then it's a MASSIVE NO.

[faüstiv]

489 is where we had the split between GL and the TGS slot:

GuiltyLion (3): Titus, Rise, PvtUrist
PvtUrist (3): faüstiv, GayBabyJailor, GuiltyLion

Not Voting (1): Map Wolf

No unvotes. Map has hammer but comments in 511:

Honestly tempted to just hammer GL. Only reason I am not yet doing so is because we'd probably insta-lose if I did and he flipped town.

GayBaby unvotes in 514:

UNVOTE: pvt

forgot i was voting him still :p

GBJ announces intent to hammer in 525:

fine, I'll do it myself

Intent to hammer

533 GBJ votes Map:

alright ive thunk on it and I would prefer a mapwolf lynch today, but guilty is an ok lynch if yall dont want to change

VOTE: map wolf

GL joins the wagon on 535:

GBJ says in 536:

ok map wolf is definitely getting bussed at this point, the question is who is the scum pushing map wolf

So GBJ implies here that if Map is mafia then me or GL is partner?

539 GBJ says:

indeed that is my thought

in response to GL posts.

Rise comes in and in 545 posts:

Ok, nah guys, what are you doing? Gonna repeat what I said earlier: we NEED this Guilty lynch. Rn, I'm convinced he's scum and it's honestly concerning how hard he's resisting death.

Even if you think he's town, understand that by him flipping town, it'll give his "will" a lot of validity. I will personally say if I'm alive, I will follow it. Rn, I'm not buying it at all. It's way too certain for something that came out of nowhere. Remember, before Pvt came in, Guilty said MW was one of his strongest TRs and now he's literally turned his back and said he is definitely scum. How does that make sense? Seems to me like he TR'd Map when he was working in his favour (on his side, voting Titus) and now is disposing him cause it'll help him live. That also screams his TRs and SRs aren't real. In fact, I remember getting SR'd like 2 times for disagreeing with him for further proof.

We can deal with Map later. The truth is we will not win without Guilty lynch today. (Yes, it's really that serious)

all of a sudden in 547 GBJ unvotes Map Wolf:

UNVOTE: map wolf

feeling unsure about this now

shades GL in 550.

ewwwwwwww

hmmmmmmm...

GBJ could actually be scum here.

There's been no resistance at all on GuiltyLion's wagon. PtvUrist is on the wagon. Map Wolf has announced intent to hammer it. So has GBJ. In contrast, there has been resistance on the Ptv and Map wagon, mainly coming from GBJ. He votes then unvotes soon after and shadethrows on GL. Though saying that, he was on the Titus wagon early D2 too. I'm not sure whether he's town with a scattered mindset or scum looking for the easy ML. I'm leaning more towards town though; seeing as he's been on 4 wagons today. I don't think he'd join those wagons so quickly as scum and then come off them so quickly too, it's just drawing attention to himself.

PEDIT: just seen GBJ's most recent post, saying if GL is mafia then partner is Map. I don't get this thought process. Could you explain it?

[GuiltyLion]

the idea that I'd open the game as scum by pressuring my partner instead of anyone else I could go after is pretty questionable, to put it lightly

I have a long history of playing Newbie games as scum by treating my partner with kiddie gloves on D1 until/unless I am sure they can handle it

[GuiltyLion]

About Map: sorry if it's not but ughh if this an attempt to shift the focus back onto MW then I don't even want to answer because it won't help us at all.

how will it not help us??

because from where I'm sitting I'm going to be green flipped soon and scum are going to push on you if you're town. You understand that right? If I'm right about Pvt/Map then you and GBJ are going to be the ones having to defend yourselves to each other and acting cagey like this about a critical slot at a critical juncture is not going to make you look good after my flip.

What is your read on Map Wolf.

[GuiltyLion]

like let's say I'm scum with Map Wolf and we know Blatant Scum is town and Rise is town in that world, why would I ever make this post while I'm voting Map Wolf and he's on/off L-2 early D1 and still a potential lynch for the day

Agree in that the list didn't say much, but is that really scum indicative? Could it not be a townie trying their best? I do think there's parts in it that's worth questioning but your full tunnel on them really wasn't something I could agree with.

As for my vote on Blatant, like I said, I find their behaviour really weird and I'll clarify once I'm on a computer (which is soon). I'm not a fan of their recent posts either so I'm happy with where my vote is right now.

Rise - how do you think scum would be more likely to play:
1) trying to pretend to be townie, being helpful, making statements that look like they're doing something, avoiding behavior that draws attention or gets them voted (my impression of Map Wolf so far)
2) trolling, being weird, calling further attention to the fact that people are already voting/suspecting them (my impression of Blatant Scum so far)

I strongly disagree with you that scum are more likely to play in style of #2 than #1.

[GuiltyLion]

here's another completed Newbie game where I (as town) say the exact same thing, so you know it's true:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10730998

"I can show you many past scumgames of me treating my newbie scum partners with kiddie gloves, especially on D1 since I don't like unnecessary attention on them until/unless I'm confident they can handle it."

[faüstiv]

Rise I'm struggling to see how you townread Map Wolf over GL at this point.

[Titus]

Is the theory of GBJ and GL now? If so, then wouldn't lynching GL be the better play?