Newbie 1965 | River | Over

[faüstiv]

PvT outs Map Wolf in the scumpairing but his whole day 2 consists of a push on GL.

Titus today says 'common sense' tells us it's Map Wolf.

Rise dies who when asked 'who is scum outside Titus/GL' specifically said 'Not Map' and panicked when Map was on L1.

this looks like scum set it up for a map wolf lynch on LYLO.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Official Vote Count 3.01

River Hudson, USA

---

Lynching

With 5 votes in play, it takes 3 to lynch.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(5): faüstiv, GayBabyJailor, Map Wolf, PvtUrist, Titus

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-05 15:00:51).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[faüstiv]

PvTUrist games

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77949

town

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78318

scum

[faüstiv]

both are quite different to his playstyle this game.

[Map Wolf]

that may have been an inno soft on Map.

Been thinking more about this. Would scum!Titus

want

to kill PR in this situation? Think about it, if Titus is scum then she’s in a good position to CC here. She only needs one town vote to win. What if Rise wasn’t a PR read at all and was just a ‘lucky’ kill that was originally targeted as a blue kill?

Rise was pretty hesitant to join the Map Wolf BW. Map is lynchbait. If Map is town then scum only need one town vote on him to win. Scum aren’t going to keep someone around who is hesitant to place their vote on a hot lynch.

My thought is that scum did not intend to kill pr.

Possibly. If thats the case then do you think Titus is still scum or was she a roleblock target?

It makes more sense for Titus to be scum. If they thought Titus was PR, then killing her directly makes way more sense, since that way you get rid of a potentially (almost) confirmed town.

[Map Wolf]

Well, there is a third solution.

Scum deduced Rise was the PR and used it to make me look bad. PvT could then change to vote me no problem. He'd set me up in lylo by killing Rise who he blocked all along.

Forgive the ramble, I am slow to awaken this morning.

I don't really see how Rise being PR was obvious. Maybe the aversion towards lynching me indicated that she got me as town? I myself didn't notice that though.

[Map Wolf]

For what it's worth, before this day began, I almost considered just insta-voting Pvt... Honestly, Titus/Pvt also is very plausible considering she wasn't on his wagon.

Still, I think Titus lynch is our best shot at this.

[faüstiv]

For what it's worth, before this day began, I almost considered just insta-voting Pvt... Honestly, Titus/Pvt also is very plausible considering she wasn't on his wagon.

Still, I think Titus lynch is our best shot at this.

i think they're both scum

[Titus]

Readlist;

{faüstiv} obvtown/universal town read

{Rise} town

{Titus, GBJ} town/not universal town reads

{GL, MW} scumpair

the following post I'm a universal TR, Titus who PvT didn't want to be lynched is a weaker tr in this list.

This actually looks like a reads list scum who would kill Rise. Agency capture me, defend MW by going after the mistaken GL. Then pray I make a mistake. You could too even if I wished up and recalled my wagon analysis.

My biggest concern is why aren't you dead? You're suggesting Rise wasn't a PR shot. No one scumreads you.

[faüstiv]

Readlist;

{faüstiv} obvtown/universal town read

{Rise} town

{Titus, GBJ} town/not universal town reads

{GL, MW} scumpair

the following post I'm a universal TR, Titus who PvT didn't want to be lynched is a weaker tr in this list.

This actually looks like a reads list scum who would kill Rise. Agency capture me, defend MW by going after the mistaken GL. Then pray I make a mistake. You could too even if I wished up and recalled my wagon analysis.

My biggest concern is why aren't you dead? You're suggesting Rise wasn't a PR shot. No one scumreads you.

i was obv not PR seeing as I thought PR was you. Similarly Rise was towny and had more chance of being PR than me. That's probably why

[Titus]

Readlist;

{faüstiv} obvtown/universal town read

{Rise} town

{Titus, GBJ} town/not universal town reads

{GL, MW} scumpair

the following post I'm a universal TR, Titus who PvT didn't want to be lynched is a weaker tr in this list.

This actually looks like a reads list scum who would kill Rise. Agency capture me, defend MW by going after the mistaken GL. Then pray I make a mistake. You could too even if I wished up and recalled my wagon analysis.

My biggest concern is why aren't you dead? You're suggesting Rise wasn't a PR shot. No one scumreads you.

i was obv not PR seeing as I thought PR was you. Similarly Rise was towny and had more chance of being PR than me. That's probably why

That goes against your theory of why you thought I was scum in the first place though doesn't it? Was it you who said Rise isn't a scum PR kill because I'd be in a good position to CC? I also don't recall you saying you thought I was the cop?

This feels like you're positioning yourself to be on whatever side you wanted to be on.

Why didn't scum kill you and block Rise?

[Map Wolf]

If Titus is town, that leaves:
Pvt/Faustiv, GBJ/Faustiv, Pvt/GBJ. All of these except Pvt/Faustiv make sense. Even so, why not kill Faustiv or Titus? Killing Titus and then pushing me would be a way easier route to victory.

If Faustiv is town, that leaves:
Pvt/Titus, Pvt/GBJ, Titus/GBJ. All of these are in theory possible as far as I see it.

Honestly I think Pvt being town is relatively likely though I'll need to read GL's case on him. Also, it just makes sense for scum to want to push him if he is scum. Him guessing that scumteam is Map Wolf/GL would also be a really bad move as scum, since he would've known that it'd be proven wrong given a lynch happening.

[Map Wolf]

I still think Titus/Faustiv is the most likely scumteam based on 420.

I want GBJ and Pvt's thoughts on this before I cast a vote on Titus.

[faüstiv]

Readlist;

{faüstiv} obvtown/universal town read

{Rise} town

{Titus, GBJ} town/not universal town reads

{GL, MW} scumpair

the following post I'm a universal TR, Titus who PvT didn't want to be lynched is a weaker tr in this list.

This actually looks like a reads list scum who would kill Rise. Agency capture me, defend MW by going after the mistaken GL. Then pray I make a mistake. You could too even if I wished up and recalled my wagon analysis.

My biggest concern is why aren't you dead? You're suggesting Rise wasn't a PR shot. No one scumreads you.

i was obv not PR seeing as I thought PR was you. Similarly Rise was towny and had more chance of being PR than me. That's probably why

That goes against your theory of why you thought I was scum in the first place though doesn't it? Was it you who said Rise isn't a scum PR kill because I'd be in a good position to CC? I also don't recall you saying you thought I was the cop?

This feels like you're positioning yourself to be on whatever side you wanted to be on.

Why didn't scum kill you and block Rise?

It was one of a number of theories I threw out yes.

Scum could have been aiming for PR, which, if they were doing that, it makes sense not to kill me since I'm not a PR.

Scum could have got lucky with the Rise kill and thought it was blue.

My vote was on Map so if Map is town then that's all the more reason why I would not be killed. I was a universally TR player advocating lynch on town.

Why

wouldn't

they keep me around in that situation?

[faüstiv]

I still think Titus/Faustiv is the most likely scumteam based on 420.

I want GBJ and Pvt's thoughts on this before I cast a vote on Titus.

I've already said why it's not me and Titus.

I think you need to reconsider your read on PvT.

[faüstiv]

Honestly, I think Faustiv/Titus might actually be the scumteam. Think about this. We were split between Titus/GL for a while... And then comes the post from faustiv in 420: Titus is probably PR he suggests. From that point onwards, we all just assume that titus is pr.

We know for sure that the setup is A1: Mafia Roleblocker, Town Cop, Town Doctor. In other words, Mafia can't for sure know who is pr.
Now let's assume Titus is town. Why would scum not kill them? Now sure it could be some hard WIFOM, but that'd carry an insane risk if they were pr as a cop result could be super valuable. Titus being scum is certainly the best explanation for the nightkill. Now why not kill faustiv? Surely he was the most townread player. Again, WIFOM could be used as an argument, but I personally don't believe that faustiv would've been lynched anyway.

On the other hand, if Titus is scum, then you'd want to avoid killing a pr role. Now obviously scum wouldn't want to kill me nor Pvt, so that leaves GBJ, Rise and Faustiv, minus the one of them that could be scum. Surely, if Titus was scum, then mafia would incorrectly have thought that Rise was least likely to be PR.
So I think Titus is almost certainly scum and would probably be the best lynch. Faustiv is not as clear-cut, but it mainly comes down to 420 which to me seems like a gamble attempting to save a scummate. I'll need to read through the Rise ISO though.

For what's it's worth, both faustiv and titus were on the BS lynch, with titus coming with a really bad reasoning still. Titus was on the GL lynch, but Faustiv wasn't.

if I'm scum with Titus I bus Titus D2.

I bus Titus to gain towncred

Titus fishes PR

PR dies

If I'm scum with Titus then I don't assume they're PR and defend them. Reasons for this are:

1) say Titus was lynched and they flipped scum. I'm immediately in the frame for the next day for defending Titus, which would be unnecessarily drawing attention to myself considering I was a TR.

2) If Titus is scum and wasn't lynched, mafia don't know who the last PR is, risking potentially 2 reports in LYLO which would compromise their chances.

I have no good reason to save Titus if I'm scum with them.

Titus' reactions and intentions read more like PR rather than mafia to me.

Why didn't Titus die? Either it's scum or mafia had a PR read on Rise. Titus could have been roleblocked N1 and/or tonight. I'm going to read Rise shortly and see if there's anything telling.

[faüstiv]

like if I'm scum as well I'd just push for a lynch on you. Titus wants you dead. GBJ wants you dead. They can't both be my partner.

[Titus]

like if I'm scum as well I'd just push for a lynch on you. Titus wants you dead. GBJ wants you dead. They can't both be my partner.

I get this but you still haven't answered why you're alive.

Also do you think the votes support a Map Wolf TGS(PvT) team?

I guess that makes GBJ town by PoE.

[Map Wolf]

Let's say mafia roleblocks Titus and then uses their kill some other way. Why not kill Faustiv, the most townread player?

like if I'm scum as well I'd just push for a lynch on you. Titus wants you dead. GBJ wants you dead. They can't both be my partner.

If you were scum, then you pushing for me, right after I've made that post suggesting Titus/Faustiv, would've looked really bad.
Also, I am pretty sure the only ones literally "wanting me dead" are scum, who'd instant-win should I be lynched.

[Titus]

Map Wolf, what are your thoughts on a Faustiv GBJ team?

[faüstiv]

like if I'm scum as well I'd just push for a lynch on you. Titus wants you dead. GBJ wants you dead. They can't both be my partner.

I get this but you still haven't answered why you're alive.

Also do you think the votes support a Map Wolf TGS(PvT) team?

I guess that makes GBJ town by PoE.

I guess Rise was more of a threat to mafia's chances of winning than I was. Whether that's because they thought she was PR or whether she had correct reads, I don't know.

Votes suggest it's possible yes, but I think the kill makes Map town.

[GayBabyJailor]

pvt seems much more inactive now than day 2, could be life but it seems sus to me

[faüstiv]

Let's say mafia roleblocks Titus and then uses their kill some other way. Why not kill Faustiv, the most townread player?

like if I'm scum as well I'd just push for a lynch on you. Titus wants you dead. GBJ wants you dead. They can't both be my partner.

If you were scum, then you pushing for me, right after I've made that post suggesting Titus/Faustiv, would've looked really bad.
Also, I am pretty sure the only ones literally "wanting me dead" are scum, who'd instant-win should I be lynched.

Already answered this.

If I was scum I would have pushed on you way before you made that post. I was pushing for you most of D2.

like there's 0 reason why I would townread you here as scum. I'm narrowing my lynchpool down massively and you're a lynchable player.

[faüstiv]

pvt seems much more inactive now than day 2, could be life but it seems sus to me

inactivity is NAI (not alignment indicative) tbh

[Titus]

pvt seems much more inactive now than day 2, could be life but it seems sus to me

inactivity is NAI (not alignment indicative) tbh

Unless you see PvT posting elsewhere. This is true.

I'm stuck between two solves imo. I hate lylo. If MW votes me, the logically, I have to suppose it's her but each solve has something that feels off.