Micro 900: Autumnal Mafia (Game Complete)

[Luca Blight]

When you look at Icon/emps interactions you can see the Icon had been protecting emps all game. Even yesterday when he was trying to distance from emps, he still always posted about emps in a positive light by saying his claim doesn’t make sense coming from scum.

[Plum]

Votecount 4.1

emps

- 1 (Luca Blight)

Not Voting

- 2 (emps, Wickedestjr)

With 3 alive it takes 2 votes to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-12-07 19:00:00)

Notes

Wickedestjr

is V/LA 12/02.

[emps]

have a fever rn so i wont be on that much

VOTE: luca

the ico maf informed flip makes me think that ico was informed abt a backup tracker and they nked aldu n1 so then luca was able to fakeclaim informed town n1

i protected wicked in case it wasnt obvious

[emps]

also the "i wouldnt kill datisi as scum" is bs

u cant kill wicked because im protecting him, and killing me would be suicide

u cant rly do nka for this because both scum!me and scum!you would have to kill datisi

[Luca Blight]

If we pretend for a minute that I'm scum and you're town doc, I would NK Wicked - either he dies which sets up your lynch, or he is protected in which case it looks like a deliberate no-kill.

Why would I kill Datisi when she agreed with me that you and Icon are scum? Wicked is the one who thought Icon/emps was the least likely team on D3 - why would I bet the game on trying to convince him when Datisi was already on my side Yesterday?

Regarding the claim, why would I claim Icon's role? Why wouldn't Icon claim that role instead?

I think Icon was informed of a back-up Tracker but not who it was, which explains why he was surprised when I said I was informed not only of a BU Tracker but also of his identity.

[Wickedestjr]

Luca was this your first time playing with Ico?

I used to like distancing as much as possible without actually bussing.

Can you expand on that? In your opinion, what is the difference between distancing and bussing? I'm wondering if your interactions with Ico could ever be SvS.

I think Icon was informed of a back-up Tracker but not who it was, which explains why he was surprised when I said I was informed not only of a BU Tracker but also of his identity.

Can you explain this in more depth for me as well? Ico said he was surprised that you didn't claim tracker.

[Wickedestjr]

the ico maf informed flip makes me think that ico was informed abt a backup tracker and they nked aldu n1 so then luca was able to fakeclaim informed town n1

Run this by me again?

[Wickedestjr]

I'll be honest, this isn't a slam-dunk easy decision for me. I'm slightly leaning towards voting emps right now, but there are things that make me feel uneasy about both of you. I spent some time rereading tonight and will need a couple more days to do some more digging.

[Wickedestjr]

I'll have more time tomorrow to share my thoughts.

[Luca Blight]

Luca was this your first time playing with Ico?

No, I'd played with Town!Icon twice before. That's part of the reason I TR him D1 & D2, because he felt similar to thos games, but his D3 play was massively different to his Town meta.

I used to like distancing as much as possible without actually bussing.

Can you expand on that? In your opinion, what is the difference between distancing and bussing? I'm wondering if your interactions with Ico could ever be SvS.

Distancing is creating interactions that make it look like you're not partners with someone. Bussing is actively trying to get your partner lynched.

As I said, self-defence is limited, but if I were scum with Icon I would have distanced more on days 1 & 2, and probably wouldn't have bussed D3 as there might not have been any need - you weren't even scumreading Icon for most of the day.

I think Icon was informed of a back-up Tracker but not who it was, which explains why he was surprised when I said I was informed not only of a BU Tracker but also of his identity.

Can you explain this in more depth for me as well? Ico said he was surprised that you didn't claim tracker.

Yes, he said he expected me to be Tracker (although as we've established he clearly thought Alim was Tracker) and after I had claimed my role he was later surprised that I was informed not only that BU Tracker existed, but that Aldu was the BU Tracker.

Spoiler: This is what I'm talking about

you were informed of who was the backup as well?

not just 'there is backup tracker in the game confirmed?'

Yes I was informed Aldu was the town back up Tracker.

Yes I was informed Aldu was the town back up Tracker.

that gives town 2 confirmed towns on D2 with a little luck

wtf

[emps]

this is kinda a prodge

will post more once i get better

[Wickedestjr]

Thanks for those answers Luca.

As I said, self-defence is limited, but if I were scum with Icon I would have distanced more on days 1 & 2, and probably wouldn't have bussed D3 as there might not have been any need - you weren't even scumreading Icon for most of the day.

Hmm your take on days 1-2 is interesting to me. I think Ico was playing really well days 1-2 - why do you think that you would have wanted to distance from him?

[Luca Blight]

I naturally distance as scum. I would have at least had more arguments/debates. It makes no sense from a strategic PoV to TR my scum partner all game when he was widely TR anyway and then bus him needlessly in LYLO. You thought me/Datisi was the scum team, why would I bus Icon in this situation?

[Luca Blight]

I refer back to this:

Spoiler: Examples of Icon protecting emps

emps my man

i like your tonal datisi read, but would it change if there would be scum daychatter?

weak luca read

your wicked read is low effort? have you actually read the game? I brought up a few critical points on wicked that i'm about to respond to in my next post. Are you scum with Wicked here?

alud has posted enough to have an opinion on...

Ali... Hmm. That seems like an OMGUS read to me, and feels like how town!emps would read it.

Wimpy read is meh as well :s Everyone would be overly defensive with the crap Menal pulled there.

Which brings me to your menal read that you are hedging. How can you not have an opinion on him? Like it or hate it, his ISO is FILLED with AI stuff.


This is probably town!Emps that is just not into this game. His reads are very feely right now, especially wrt Ali. He isn't pushing a scum!agenda and reminds me of myself when I'm town just stuck in a game.

@Alim

: If emps doesn't offer up something good soon then I might be willing to switch over.

We could vote him up to pressure into posting, but I don't think Emps is a good lynch today.

Um pressure doesnt work if you say its for pressuring and not gonna lynch them

let me rephrase that

i have no intention in lynching emps today, wicked goes first

@Alim

: If emps doesn't offer up something good soon then I might be willing to switch over.

We could vote him up to pressure into posting, but I don't think Emps is a good lynch today.

Also I just disagree on emps. I think I can read that slot. I'm liking the tone, and there's posts out there suggesting he is interested in scumhunting. If he doesn't improve he will be an easy lynch later on, and his lynch today gives us very little information imo.

Everyone: VOTE: Menalque
I thought being the universal SR and being ignored was frustrating. But holy shit, being the universal TR and

still

being ignored is a special type of hell.

I wasnt ignoring you. I was actively trying to understand why you TR Menalque when Pops hammered out of nowhere.

Datisi and Icon are still probably Town. I'm most likely going to vote for Pops today. I wish Menalque took more time to case Wicked while he was alive as I'm having a hard time reading that slot now; most of his content has been meh, but the case was good and I maintain that despite the flip.

emps needs considering.

@Icon and Datisi

, what are your current feelings about this slot?

I remain ambivalent about Alim. Pops/Alim team could make sense, though.

I thought emps was townish Day 1 and nothing changed. I want him to be here more then he currently is though.

And that's not including D3 where Icon has still been soft-defending emps while keeping himself open to lynching him.

[Luca Blight]

And it makes sense why Icon/emps would keep Datisi alive so long:

1) Datisi was TR'ing emps all game/unwilling to consider his lynch
2) Icon has a lot of experience with Datisi and probably thought he could manipulate that
3) Datisi was a very convenient 'target' for a doc claim.

The question is: why would scum, not knowing there is a doc in this game, keep Datisi alive so long, if not for the reasons outlined above?

[Wickedestjr]

Luca, at the present time, these are two of the biggest things preventing me from confidently town reading you.

1. When I asked you to describe how you're playing differently from your scum meta, you said here that you would play in a laid back way and go with the flow as scum (instead of actively trying to push lynches). The problem is that I still think that your play this game has resembled your described scum play style. These statements from you fall in line with that:

The only reason I gave emps a pass was because

I was sheeping Datisi and Icon

who were my top TR's for most of the game.

I was willing to look at alternatives, but

it was a closed-shop

. As I said, I TR Datisi and I thought Icon was Tracker, and between them they were unwilling to look at emps, you, or Alim. I also genuinely thought Pops was the best lynch Yesterday.

There was no-one else who was going to be lynched that day.

I had no way of knowing emps would come in and hammer without providing any further content.

Your only counter to this was talking about your Aldu push. But I reread your back and forth with him and you only started pushing Aldu after he attacked you. And he originally attacked you

for being on the side lines

. So I don't feel like that's a great counter example. And I saw that you tried arguing that I was more laid-back than you were but I don't believe that was true. I made a push for the Menalque lynch in spite of the fact that multiple people (Datisi, pops) made it explicitly clear that they wanted to sort him on a later day. On the contrary, it seems like you were content to follow the crowd on the pops lynch even though you didn't seem fully convinced in it.

2. I know I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around the Alduskkel and alimdia kills coming from an Ico/emps team. (P-edit: I see your explanation for this.) But it's not just the fact that they kept Datisi alive. It's the fact that they kept both you

and

Datisi alive for so long (in my opinion you two were the most popular town reads of the game). Instead they chose to kill two players who could have potentially been mis-lynched. And I also don't think that Aldu/alimdia really did anything strongly PR indicative. If anything, Aldu's refusal to claim made me feel like he thought he had nothing to lose. And alimdia saying 'let's keep the pr talk down to a minimum' is something that he would have a vested interest as a VT just as much as he would as a PR.

To be fair, Datisi made a good point about how you/Ico could have killed me for the win given that she suspected alimdia and alimdia suspected emps. And I'm also aware of the fact that Ico's information could have given him some reason to kill Aldu or alimdia that's just beyond my perception of the game. But I'm not fully comfortable accepting this yet.

Luca, I have a question for you about this: how much confidence in a PR-read is needed for scum to shoot someone that they could have potentially mis-lynched?

[Wickedestjr]

Regardless of Ico's partner, I feel like he was trying to make this confusing by keeping me alive + pushing a Luca/emps team yesterday.

[Wickedestjr]

My biggest issue with emps is his lack of interest in scum hunting on days 2-3.

im not trying to solve the game that much because i dont rly like want to i guess

the 1st 20 pages and the fuckfest the rest of this game has been hasnt exactly made me want to play the game more

emps, I find this explanation hard to believe. I agree that the first 20 pages of this game kinda sucked. But that was 80+ pages ago. I feel like the Mena/Wimpy thing is very much in the past.

And it also didn't seem like your effort level dropped until a few days later.

What can you say to convince me this explanation is true?

[Luca Blight]

Wicked, you were definitely more laid-back than me D1. You made one good post against Menalque, but that was it. Apart from that you didn't push anyone at all. I pushed Aldu, Menalque and Alim D1. D2 was an unusual situation - it was a bit of a closed shop. I had two strong TR's and they weren't interested in lynching the slots I might have compromised on. Furthermore, I genuinely felt Pops had to go D2 and I stand by that now. It was the correct lynch for D2 as my uneasiness about that slot would have remained.

I also don't get why Aldu and Alim were killed, other than that Icon clearly thought Alim was a PR, and given his reasoning for thinking that it's understandable that he would have used to same logic to read Aldu as a PR. I stated earlier I didn't see anything PR indicative from either of them.

As for your question, I guess quite a lot of confidence.

[Luca Blight]

Btw Wicked, putting so much weight on night kills is the wrong way to go about this. Scum can literally WIFOM anything they like with the night kills. If aiming for the lesser TR players who are more likely PR's then increases the suspicion on the more TR players then that's a potential reason why they might do that.

[Wickedestjr]

I naturally distance as scum. I would have at least had more arguments/debates.

It makes no sense from a strategic PoV to TR my scum partner all game

when he was widely TR anyway and then bus him needlessly in LYLO. You thought me/Datisi was the scum team,

why would I bus Icon in this situation?

One could make the argument that scum wouldn't want to throw shade at their partner if their partner is a widely accepted TR. If you and Ico were partners, then you two were already popular town reads through most of days 1-2 so the town cred gained from distancing might not be worth the risk of attracting unwanted attention to each other.

And I feel like the bolded parts are a bit contradictory or WIFOM-ish.

[Luca Blight]

They're not contradictory - I'm saying I TR him on the days when I wouldn't have had to if I were his partner, and bussed him when I wouldn't have had to if I were his partner.

And yes, WIFOM-ish is correct. I hate WIFOM speculation, but that's exactly what you're doing by putting so much emphasis on the night kills. You thought it was me/Datisi yesterday based on night-kills, that's now been proven wrong but still you persist with this theory. Can't you judge me and emps by our actual play this game?

I've been actively trying to solve in LYLO. emps had been 'catching-up' throughout days 1 and 2, lolhammered Pops without giving any decent content, and has done nothing during LYLO but stay quiet so he wouldn't risk giving away any associatives with Icon.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, you were definitely more laid-back than me D1. You made one good post against Menalque, but that was it. Apart from that you didn't push anyone at all. I pushed Aldu, Menalque and Alim D1.

*sigh* I feel like you keep missing my point here. My point has nothing to do with the quantity of effort exerted in this game. I cited my own Mena push not because I'm trying to convince you that I put in more effort on day 1. My whole point with that was that I pushed for a unique lynch that was experiencing resistance. Whereas I feel like you were taking the path of least resistance all game: you expressed support of the Wimpy bandwagon when he was getting lots of attention, you followed Ico to vote for me, you voted Aldu after he attacked you for being on the side lines, and then you followed me on Mena. Those are all the steps that I can remember. Where did you push alimdia on day 1?

D2 was an unusual situation - it was a bit of a closed shop. I had two strong TR's and they weren't interested in lynching the slots I might have compromised on. Furthermore, I genuinely felt Pops had to go D2 and I stand by that now. It was the correct lynch for D2 as my uneasiness about that slot would have remained.

Again, I just feel like this is a little bit lazy if you are town. If you thought there were other slots that deserved attention then you should have put your foot down. Just because your strong TR's aren't interested doesn't mean you just stand back and let them dictate the course of the game.

In your last post before putting pops at L-1, you admitted that some of her recent posts were making you feel better about her. We still had plenty of time to make our decision on day 2, so why the rush to put her at L-1 in spite of those second thoughts?

I also don't get why Aldu and Alim were killed, other than that Icon clearly thought Alim was a PR, and given his reasoning for thinking that it's understandable that he would have used to same logic to read Aldu as a PR. I stated earlier I didn't see anything PR indicative from either of them.

As for your question, I guess quite a lot of confidence.

I agree with you that 'quite a lot of confidence' would be necessary.

[Luca Blight]

I pushed Aldu when he had zero votes - that's not path of least resistance. It doesn't matter if he attacked me first, that's beyond my control.

I wasn't lazy D2 - it was a particular situation where I was at least 90% sure Pops was the right lynch. I didn't want to push her SR Icon because I thought he was Tracker. Both of my TR's had no interest going anywhere near emps, and Icon warned off pushing Alim. Given I thought Icon was Tracker, what was I supposed to do here? I felt for sure Pops was the best lynch, and as I said I stand by that.

[Wickedestjr]

Luca what did you think of this idea:

One could make the argument that scum wouldn't want to throw shade at their partner if their partner is a widely accepted TR. If you and Ico were partners, then you two were already popular town reads through most of days 1-2 so the town cred gained from distancing might not be worth the risk of attracting unwanted attention to each other.

I hate WIFOM speculation, but that's exactly what you're doing by putting so much emphasis on the night kills. You thought it was me/Datisi yesterday based on night-kills, that's now been proven wrong but still you persist with this theory. Can't you judge me and emps by our actual play this game?

I know that night-kill analysis always needs to be taken with a grain of salt. In general, I just don't believe that scum teams go for the unexpected/wifomy kill as often as people think they do.

It feels like you're starting to get impatient with me again. My reads have never been based purely on night-kills. I didn't think it was you/Datisi very long (seeing as I voted to lynch Ico yesterday). And half of our conversation tonight has been based on your actual play this game.