Newbie 1971 [Game Over!]

[the worst]

vote count 1.01

Map Wolf (1) : Uncrowned
Kanna (1) : Map Wolf
GayBabyJailor (0) :
Uncrowned (0) :
Non lmh (1) : GuiltyLion
King Olaph (0) :
GuiltyLion (1) : skitter30
Menalque (2) : Non lmh, GayBabyJailor
skitter30 (1) : Menalque

not voting: Kanna, King Olaph

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-12-14 11:30:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- quack

[GuiltyLion]

I also want to make the point that while you may feel I'm being uncharitable I don't actually think what you're doing is scummy, just frustrating

[Uncrowned]

UNVOTE: Map Wolf

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[GuiltyLion]

because i don't feel like your push on him really has merit

honestly I'm thinking about this point in particular more and getting more annoyed

like - it's a page 1 ping and a first vote, how much "merit" is even possible at that point that would meet your standard? you even yourself said you were thinking the same thing, why would you not just let NI respond and seeing how you feel about their response and how I decide to follow-up to that response before you decide my vote/push wasn't good enough for you

you cut off what was (in my mind) the most useful push I could make at page 1 in the game, at a time when there really weren't any better pushes to go around, and then blame me because a page 1 vote "doesn't have merit". and then vote me when I call that anti-town. surely you can see how that's frustrating to me.

[Uncrowned]

your reason for voting kinda felt forced

like I see the "logic" but it seemed like you were trying a bit too much to have a reason for voting, if that makes sense.

kinda like the opposite of skit's read on gbj having a relaxed entrance. here it feels like you're trying to score towncred early by progressing the game and having a "reason" behind it that, if you really think about it, isn't much of a "reason" at all lol

[Kanna]

VOTE: Mena

good day to all)

I don't like this post, Menalque had already posted yet the vote is made without any engagement + greeting the thread felt awkward

VOTE: Non Imh

Was this a joke or was it serious?

[Uncrowned]

Why would you think it's not serious, especially given the rest of the content that slot has produced so far?

[GayBabyJailor]

guys guilty is town, he just doesnt like being pushed earlygame

[Uncrowned]

Eh he's attempting to make a push as well. Comes with the territory

[GayBabyJailor]

I'm just so used to newbies sheeping me on D1s and generally not scumreading me this game threw me for a loop there and I didn't know how to handle it

from dead 1965 btw

[Kanna]

Why would you think it's not serious, especially given the rest of the content that slot has produced so far?

That’s true. I just wanted to confirm because I didn’t want to misunderstand.

If it is, then I definitely agree the push was unfair. I didn’t see anything wrong with the entry.

[skitter30]

you cut off what was (in my mind) the most useful push I could make at page 1 in the game, at a time when there really weren't any better pushes to go around, and then blame me because a page 1 vote "doesn't have merit". and then vote me when I call that anti-town. surely you can see how that's frustrating to me.

I mean .... you're pushing a second post empty vote, where the first post was an obvious meme. i dont entirely get what you think you'd be getting out of that

Like this conversation is significantly more useful and interesting than a discussion of that vote tbh.

Also i'm voting you more for being lamist and for your reaction than inherently for your push

[Menalque]

I kinda don’t like the characterisation of what GL has done as a “push”

[Menalque]

guys guilty is town, he just doesnt like being pushed earlygame

I'm just so used to newbies sheeping me on D1s and generally not scumreading me this game threw me for a loop there and I didn't know how to handle it

from dead 1965 btw

What are you talking about gbj?

[Menalque]

did Olaph pick up his role PM, ducky?

[GayBabyJailor]

guys guilty is town, he just doesnt like being pushed earlygame

I'm just so used to newbies sheeping me on D1s and generally not scumreading me this game threw me for a loop there and I didn't know how to handle it

from dead 1965 btw

What are you talking about gbj?

i guess im using a meta argument for guilty being town but hes town nonetheless

[Menalque]

Have you played with him before?

[GayBabyJailor]

Have you played with him before?

indeed i have

[Menalque]

So you think his play here is similar to rivers? Why?

[GayBabyJailor]

So you think his play here is similar to rivers? Why?

well ive never seen guilty participate in rvs

[Menalque]

How good do you think your meta read on him is?

Also who do you think is scum?

[GayBabyJailor]

uncrowned i guess? they seem more reactive than proactive

[GuiltyLion]

your reason for voting kinda felt forced

like I see the "logic" but it seemed like you were trying a bit too much to have a reason for voting, if that makes sense.

kinda like the opposite of skit's read on gbj having a relaxed entrance. here it feels like you're trying to score towncred early by progressing the game and having a "reason" behind it that, if you really think about it, isn't much of a "reason" at all lol

I disagree that I'm "trying to score towncred", what makes you think that I am? What would be different about my entrance if I

weren't

trying to score towncred, in your mind?

guys guilty is town, he just doesnt like being pushed earlygame

I don't like being pushed at any time in the game lol

If it is, then I definitely agree the push was unfair. I didn’t see anything wrong with the entry.

I would say that it's not that the entry is "wrong", rather I felt it was the highest likelihood of all the entries to come from scum. Do you have any thoughts about whether NI is more or less likely to comment on Menalque's posts while voting him as town or scum?

[GuiltyLion]

I mean .... you're pushing a second post empty vote, where the first post was an obvious meme. i dont entirely get what you think you'd be getting out of that

it's how I play, start pressuring and voting scumreads as soon as possible. I vote the entrance I liked the least and usually either ask a question to help me sort or explain why I didn't like it. I don't meme or joke around in RVS as I find that a waste of time and not useful for getting reads in the slightest.

Here's a handful of my entries in recent Newbie games to back that up:
Newbie 1965 River, "page 2 reads list looks fake"
Newbie 1917, "[post] 9 feels over-explainy"
Newbie 1907, "I too would like a follow-up to [post] 33, and I'm also gonna call out that I don't see the point behind this comment - is your line of thinking that we shouldn't pressure people because scum may use that to blend in, or that we might look like scum in doing so, or what?"

also here's a bonus where people started wrongly pushing me for "tryharding" early game
Micro 894 "I know your vote was already on osetr and 30 is meant as a joke but I also think osetr has been fairly townie so I don't like it"
with another bonus posts where I'm arguing about this here:
"all players should be encouraged to start scumhunting as soon as possible so you can start flushing out who is being disingenuous"
and here:
where in response to Bailey being like "you're voting off of nothing!" my response is "what else should we be voting off of, at this point?"

I disagree with my play being LAMIST and I'll ask you the same question I just asked to Uncrowned, skitter - what specifically do you think about my play here is more likely to come from scum!me then town!me? Like do you really think scum!me cares or bothers to fake getting annoyed with you about you overly defending a Newbie that I'm trying to pressure and sort early?

[GuiltyLion]

also the idea of LAMIST in general I think is a bogus and overused "tell"... everyone regardless of alignment is going to play in a way that they think makes them look town, and in my experience there's not a reliable way to distinguish between "coming across as trying to look town bc they're town" vs "coming across as trying to look town bc they're scum". I've also posted about this before as well!

here
"speaking as a player more than an IC, I agree with this. I think it's fair to call out LAMIST-y things in the early game when you're just getting started and you think someone sounds fake or like they're sucking up to town, but once you get into deeper content then it's a pretty weak/buzzword accusation, especially in comparison to looking at things like vote motivations, reasons for scumreads, etc. Fundamentally you're arguing that the person made a townie sounding post but you just suspect that they're pretending to be town - this argument isn't ultimately that great because there's always a fairly plausible counter explanation which is simply that they're town posting things that sound townie."