Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[AaronFrost]

I don't think it makes him scum either, but the push is still bad. Like he lists your actions that he thinks are scummy, but doesn't elaborate on why those actions are scummy.

[Salamence20]

I think the three of you are town and should decide on pushing ico, amnrun, or mr. “Imma just wagon and leave” Dogwatch

[Salamence20]

Also AF and DDL should tell the class why my exaggerated complaints about SS are AI

[Something_Smart]

You think Aaron is town? How come?

[Amrun]

My gut says S_S / sal is TvT

[Salamence20]

You think Aaron is town? How come?

His posts seem innocent, I didnt like his wagon, and I also think creature is kinda antsy, which is what he thought as well.

[Datisi]

Why not a joke? I don't know. I didn't read it as a joke.

I think if ur scum, and fully aware of 3p scumteam, you don't post it like that. It felt too fluent.

I still don't think it was a Townslip. And am I then NAI for that interaction or not?

Your reaction is NAI.

Him joking about the scumteam is probably NAI. I saw something. I called it out. Make of it what you will.
Some of you are acting like I hard-townread him for that slip, which isn't true.

so wait am I NAI for it or not then?

[Datisi]

@Menal: That case is far too boring to spend my time on tbh but I’ll touch on a few salient points.

Not answering a direct question is usually scummy, or at least belligerent, but it does depend on what the question was. In this case, it was me being a derp and missing the answer. The vote was still weird, though.
---

I mean (1) the fact you went “eh still a weird vote” feels like you were looking for an excuse to vote him and idk why that’s natural? Also I disagree that not answering a direct question is scummy when the simplest explanation is that the person just missed it?
---

1) It depends on the question and the context. In this particular case, I was trying to reaction test alim but it didn’t work because I’m dumb. I kept my vote there because the vote was still the thing that pinged me the most up to that point.
---

Eh, any reason why you didn't say so about the reaction test in 339 right away?

[Datisi]

I think its a good place to put my vote for now. His 149 bugs me and he hasn't done anything to make me think hes town yet.

Why does 149 bug you though?

I've already answered this.

Looking at your 149 again. I think it looks like took my 35 seriously, I don't understand how Menal "Townslipped."

Also I'm not sure what you are going on about in reference to Pretentious 41.

Oh, I missed that, my bad.

Idk, that's not the post that made me think Icon was scummy. Do you think him taking 35 seriously is scummy? You seemed to award Creature a TR for it in 87, and I don't think you called out GL over it either?

[Datisi]

Btw i just learned icon is not a guy. Neat.

yeah he's a dragon

[Datisi]

okay, so still waiting for answers from... GL and Creature?
Oh yeah I asked DDL about his history with Icon somewhere I think

Mena, alim, S_S, Aaron can be Town
Icon is Icon
I'm good with my current vote
Sala is weird idk what to make of him yet
Pret I've no bloody clue on
Dog kinda needs to post more they have a cute avi but idk
tex also
I'm me
cheers

[Something_Smart]

I'm good with my current vote

Why? Because Amrun voted Aaron whom you townread?

[Datisi]

maybe partly that
I think someone also outlined (was it Mena? idk) that they appeared to be much more sure of their vote of Aaron at first and then did were like "might be scum might not lol"
i didn't exactly like their response to Mena's case either

the Dogwatch vote was (1) weird - they didn't show any signs of not SRing Aaron, and are kinda just asking hm questions but I don't think they're elaborating of their read there much?
and in 390 they said

You seem to be an odd duck that matches to your own drummer, so

I’m not sure yet that any of this is NAI.

However, it is still bad.

which kinda reads weird, like groundwork for justifying a vote there later?

(2) and the fact they were like "inb4 this vote scummy" is just meh imo
like
they knew someone was gonna say something
so better
joke about it first

[Something_Smart]

they appeared to be much more sure of their vote of Aaron at first and then did were like "might be scum might not lol"

Wouldn't scum be more prone to do the opposite? Put out a tentative scumread and then if people agree they can pretend to get more confident, and if people disagree they can back off?

I don't really see this headstrong behavior as scum indicative.

[Datisi]

Not really, in my experience I've seen scum go balls hard on a "scumread", but once it doesn't exactly take off, they start backpedalling into "eh he was kinda scummy right guys riiiight??" until they jump onto another vote.

[Amrun]

@Menal: That case is far too boring to spend my time on tbh but I’ll touch on a few salient points.

Not answering a direct question is usually scummy, or at least belligerent, but it does depend on what the question was. In this case, it was me being a derp and missing the answer. The vote was still weird, though.
---

I mean (1) the fact you went “eh still a weird vote” feels like you were looking for an excuse to vote him and idk why that’s natural? Also I disagree that not answering a direct question is scummy when the simplest explanation is that the person just missed it?
---

1) It depends on the question and the context. In this particular case, I was trying to reaction test alim but it didn’t work because I’m dumb. I kept my vote there because the vote was still the thing that pinged me the most up to that point.
---

Eh, any reason why you didn't say so about the reaction test in 339 right away?

Do you fundamentally understand joe reaction tests are intended to work? Basically everything I post is some sort of reaction test. That’s how the game is played.

[Amrun]

maybe partly that
I think someone also outlined (was it Mena? idk) that they appeared to be much more sure of their vote of Aaron at first and then did were like "might be scum might not lol"
i didn't exactly like their response to Mena's case either

the Dogwatch vote was (1) weird - they didn't show any signs of not SRing Aaron, and are kinda just asking hm questions but I don't think they're elaborating of their read there much?
and in 390 they said

You seem to be an odd duck that matches to your own drummer, so

I’m not sure yet that any of this is NAI.

However, it is still bad.

which kinda reads weird, like groundwork for justifying a vote there later?

(2) and the fact they were like "inb4 this vote scummy" is just meh imo
like
they knew someone was gonna say something
so better
joke about it first

Can you actually provide any examples of scum acting like this?

Listen, early day 1, if anyone is totally sure of ANY read, they’re just full of shit or scum. However, it is not in my nature to play like s_s and wait and watch. I poke and poke and wait until that poking produces something. It usually does. But you have to poke hard.

[Datisi]

@Menal: That case is far too boring to spend my time on tbh but I’ll touch on a few salient points.

Not answering a direct question is usually scummy, or at least belligerent, but it does depend on what the question was. In this case, it was me being a derp and missing the answer. The vote was still weird, though.
---

I mean (1) the fact you went “eh still a weird vote” feels like you were looking for an excuse to vote him and idk why that’s natural? Also I disagree that not answering a direct question is scummy when the simplest explanation is that the person just missed it?
---

1) It depends on the question and the context. In this particular case, I was trying to reaction test alim but it didn’t work because I’m dumb. I kept my vote there because the vote was still the thing that pinged me the most up to that point.
---

Eh, any reason why you didn't say so about the reaction test in 339 right away?

Do you fundamentally understand joe reaction tests are intended to work? Basically everything I post is some sort of reaction test. That’s how the game is played.

I think I do? But if the whole reaction test was botched anyway because you missed their answer, why not out ~that part of the reaction test~ in 339, but rather after further being called out?

Can you actually provide any examples of scum acting like this?

If you mean "going hard against someone then backpedaling once the push isn't working as well as hoped", Newbie 1949 - Korina pushing for Mena's lynch at first because BS reasons then slowly backing down and letting another lynch through.

[Amrun]

@Datisi: Why would I? For what purpose? It would have been a waste of time typing the words. I don’t make a typical practice of belaboring everything I do to try and generate reads. Some of it works, some of it doesn’t. I typically only explain it if I think it went somewhere that will make sense to other people, and I want them to follow me. Explaining ALL of my thought processes has only negative utility, not positive.

As for the scum behavior thing, eh. I’m sure some scum has done it somewhere. I would still posit it’s not especially common.

I’m also not threatened in any capacity and have no reason to change my reads or behavior for any reason. In the unlikely event I am mislynched, there will be scum on the wagon 100%, so hopefully town can still make use of it. I’ll still scumhunt and share when and if I see fit.

[Datisi]

I mean I disagree that it would've been a "waste of time" since you then got called out on stuff that was explained by you saying it was a reaction test. If you'd said so right away then surely that part wouldn't have happened?

And I feel like your tone is being unnecessarily aggressive with me? I don't think I'm pushing you/threatening you that hard, I wasn't asking you to /change/ your behaviour, I wasn't saying you need to explain ALL your thought processes?

[Amrun]

I’m not being aggressive in any way, though?

I’d rather be questioned for my actions than pre-empt any criticism. Watching people read me is a great way to get reads.

I don’t think you understand my playstyle, which is ok.

[Datisi]

Do you fundamentally understand joe reaction tests are intended to work? Basically everything I post is some sort of reaction test. That’s how the game is played.

Can you actually provide any examples of scum acting like this?

I’m also not threatened in any capacity and have no reason to change my reads or behavior for any reason.

These parts gave me the overdefensive/aggressive vibe fwiwi.

What's your read on me?

[AaronFrost]

Also AF and DDL should tell the class why my exaggerated complaints about SS are AI

They aren't AI, but just like I said about alim's push on SS, I think it's a playstyle clash. The outburst just seemed unwarranted to me.

[Amrun]

Do you fundamentally understand joe reaction tests are intended to work? Basically everything I post is some sort of reaction test. That’s how the game is played.

Can you actually provide any examples of scum acting like this?

I’m also not threatened in any capacity and have no reason to change my reads or behavior for any reason.

These parts gave me the overdefensive/aggressive vibe fwiwi.

What's your read on me?

Well, I mean, I know text can be read subjectively and there’s not much I can do about that, but I don’t read those posts that way and that’s not how I intended them. The first two are just basic questions.

As for you, I have a town lean on you. I would bet town, but it’s not overly strong. I think you basic miscomprehension of my playstyle is NAI and you seem more likely to be trying to sort than to capitalize.

[AaronFrost]

I'm me

Whaaaaaaat

And I feel like your tone is being unnecessarily aggressive with me? I don't think I'm pushing you/threatening you that hard, I wasn't asking you to /change/ your behaviour, I wasn't saying you need to explain ALL your thought processes?

Do you think that aggressive behavior is more likely to come from scum? I honestly don't see Amrun's posting as super aggressive and have actually been liking her posting a little more on this page.