Mini 2110: I hate Mafia (Day 8)

[Rautherdir]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

[Venmar]

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

Wait why the fuck do we wanna lynch townies if thats the case.
Im mime pls

Have you read the setup?

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

[Enter]

I think you're either just attracted to one playstyle over another when we definitely need both, or you're intentionally trying to twist Farkran's NAI play into something AI. There is nothing in this post that makes Farkran's post look scummier (although you trying to push a post that's NAI certainly makes it look like you're trying to do so).

this is basically just you disagreeing with how im reading the game. you think farkran's post wasn't AI, which is dumb, whereas i think it was. pushing a playstyle/tactic while trying to imply that such an action would be AI, should tell you something about the player.

not to mention that you clearly think farkran is townie, so you thinking his first post being NAI doesn't make much sense, otherwise why would you vote him?

i've also already specified im focusing on the context behind the playstyle, not the playstyle or action itself. if you want to be dumb, then go for it.

There's a difference between me having a gut town read on Farkran, and there being a logical reason his post is AI or not.

You failing to present any form of solid argument why Farkran's post is AI doesn't make me dumb, though.

Well, considering Gyro hadn't posted when I voted Farkran, yes.

this was actually poor wording by me, i apologize, but my intention was to point out that farkran had only made one post by the time gyro made his "townie" post. i was trying to gleam if you thought farkran's one singular post at the time was still townier than the gyro post you heralded as probably town.

I see...

Venmar is making a terrible first impression.

lol it sucks to be you huh

Why would it suck to be me? I'm doing great.

You seem to be taking this all very hard, probably a bit harder than you should, and that's interesting to me.

[Rautherdir]

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

At the end of the game in a town win, there will be the same number of town and mime, thus at least one town will not have to die. And as long as we make sure we always lynch then mimes will have to die. And by limiting the number of valid lynch options we make it more likely we'll get a lynch.

[Enter]

I'm not disagreeing with how you're reading the game, BTW, I'm disagreeing with how you're presenting the game. You're implying that Farkran's post is mechanically AI, and it isn't. You're trying to frame Farkran as scummy with no reason other than you twisting the context.

[Venmar]

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

im assuming the day ends in a no lynch if no majority is reached?

[Venmar]

(which with short says and town apathy is very possible)

[Farkran]

You can count me in, then @rauth

By the way a lot of town has to die to win this game, more than double the amount of mimes (13p total, at least 7 town MUST die to reach a 3v3 endgame for a town win).

Speaking about math, i also calculated wrong - there's no need to have our 3 highest townreads get to endgame, they just need to die right before endgame to make things easier. So... ideally, we start killing our 4 highest TRs (including vig) when we are missing 4 players from endgame. That means... 10 players. We always save our highest scumreads for lywin. I think this is the proper strategy.

So, d1, d2 and d3 we should kill people who are harder to read / null level.

[Farkran]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

[Farkran]

As for my very early reads...

I think both venmar and enter are doing some awkward analysis of the early game. I feel slightly pocketed from Enter's side, and soft-shaded by Venmar.

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

Well hopefully that won’t ever happen.

[Farkran]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

Well hopefully that won’t ever happen.

If everyone goes V/LA like you are, it certainly isn't happening. I wish all games were as active as this one

[Pyrrha Nikos]

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

im assuming the day ends in a no lynch if no majority is reached?

(which with short says and town apathy is very possible)

Possibilty /= to likelihood.

[Venmar]

I'm not disagreeing with how you're reading the game, BTW, I'm disagreeing with how you're presenting the game. You're implying that Farkran's post is mechanically AI, and it isn't. You're trying to frame Farkran as scummy with no reason other than you twisting the context.

actually i never said that farkran's post was "mechanically" AI. if you read my posts you'd know i'm specifically focusing on the context since i don't think his post is "mechanically" ai. i specifically conceded from the beginning that i think the idea of voting for yourself as a strategy isn't AI because both town and mime have motive to want to do that, but since farkran initially thought it was, and based on how he initially approached it, gave me a sus ping, that you interestingly were interested in.

i'm curious as to what you would consider "mechanically ai" in this game though. conceding that both town and mime want to get lynched and have the same goals here, aside from advocating for a no-lynch, what would you consider mechanically ai when the motives of the two alignment are almost inseparable? the reason i am focusing on the context here is because i believe, in this setup, it's what we have when the two alignments have the same goal. if you disagree with me that the two alignments will fundamentally act almost the same due to having the same goal, then yes, we are just disagreeing with how we're reading the game.

for the record, i just think you blew my farkran read out of proportion. i actually do think that his recent posting has been good, and like yourself, i think your reaction and interest in it is interesting too.

[Venmar]

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

eh i'd lean not

for the record i don't actually mind volunteering to being part of the no-lynch group as long as enter is in it.

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I did realize another difference between mimes and town. Mimes have to die to win. Town does not.

townies have to die to achieve their win condition though. mimes technically don't have to die either if they can get the game to no-lynch twice.

What do you seriously think is the likelihood of that even happening once, let alone twice?

Yeah, no-lynch is not gonna happen anytime soon, as long as we don't have 7 players V/LA at the same time. Twice.

Well hopefully that won’t ever happen.

If everyone goes V/LA like you are, it certainly isn't happening. I wish all games were as active as this one

I did that because I wasn’t feeling well and wanted to avoid prods. I should probably change that.

[Venmar]

@mod

; does the vig shot end the day or not?

[Farkran]

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

eh i'd lean not

Why? Before your post 65 i was having the feeling that you were scumreading Enter because of his townread of me, with which you disagreed - this would have meant you already had two scumreads in like 3 pages, which is what i have been referring as awkward earlier.

Can you clarify if that is the case, or if you have changed your mind about it?

[Rautherdir]

So, the group is Me, Enter, Venmar and I think Farkran volunteered?
That would leave two more slots to volunteer, and the vig still needs to claim when they show up.

[Farkran]

So, the group is Me, Enter, Venmar and I think Farkran volunteered?
That would leave two more slots to volunteer, and the vig still needs to claim when they show up.

Yes, count me in

[Pyrrha Nikos]

I'm not disagreeing with how you're reading the game, BTW, I'm disagreeing with how you're presenting the game. You're implying that Farkran's post is mechanically AI, and it isn't. You're trying to frame Farkran as scummy with no reason other than you twisting the context.

actually i never said that farkran's post was "mechanically" AI. if you read my posts you'd know i'm specifically focusing on the context since i don't think his post is "mechanically" ai. i specifically conceded from the beginning that i think the idea of voting for yourself as a strategy isn't AI because both town and mime have motive to want to do that, but since farkran initially thought it was, and based on how he initially approached it, gave me a sus ping, that you interestingly were interested in.

i'm curious as to what you would consider "mechanically ai" in this game though. conceding that both town and mime want to get lynched and have the same goals here, aside from advocating for a no-lynch, what would you consider mechanically ai when the motives of the two alignment are almost inseparable? the reason i am focusing on the context here is because i believe, in this setup, it's what we have when the two alignments have the same goal. if you disagree with me that the two alignments will fundamentally act almost the same due to having the same goal, then yes, we are just disagreeing with how we're reading the game.

for the record, i just think you blew my farkran read out of proportion. i actually do think that his recent posting has been good, and like yourself, i think your reaction and interest in it is interesting too.

@Venmar do you think Enter is town?

eh i'd lean not

for the record i don't actually mind volunteering to being part of the no-lynch group as long as enter is in it.

He did seem really convinced on Fakran being town. I don’t think it’s a horrible read but I don’t thinks he’s really done anything to be obvtown yet.

[Farkran]

UNVOTE:

[Venmar]

no-lynch becomes more likely over time, for the record. as we lynch more and more town, the mimes will have a larger % of the votes, and will have less and less incentive to vote on town lynches. once its 5v3 and 4v3, the town have to be unanimous amongst each other to get a lynch through, which can be crippled if even one of the mimes makes into a "town circle", otherwise mimes can just immobilize the vote without an all-town consensus to out-vote them.

also there's no reason why everyone shouldn't have a read on me and enter by now.