Mainstream Mafia II: D&D Edition [FIN]

[Miss Lane]

She inked her letter as if all of Cobble stood or fell on its words. Her fingers fluttered the calligraphy beautifully. It was of great import to her, as always, to make certain all knew her status. Reasons like these were why she'd write in the first place. Nobody ever takes a woman as gorgeous as her seriously unless she can quip just as well with her quill as she can with her tongue. A smirk crossed her cheeks as she finished; unfortunately, she wasn't alone.

"...sleep."

A moor spellcaster was hidden in the shadows, her job complete.

I don't see where you get that Formerfish's killer is anything other than a woman.

[Miss Lane]

EP tell me do you believe the argument you posted?

Yes, absolutely.

If you'd like, I can respond to your wall post. It'd be easier to respond in brief though, so can you concisely sum up your problem(s) with my Wooper case?

What.
.
I made a single comment to the two points you made about Wooper, I'm not really sure how to sum it up much more than that.

9258 is a legit wall

EBWOP

I broke up your quotes

so you could see
whic point
i responded to

with what

YES IF YOU TRY TO READ THE WHOLE THING IT COUNTS AS A WALL

BUT THERE ARE TWO VERY OBVIOUS BLATANT POINTS IN TEH MIDDLE OF THE POST THAT ARE OBVIOUS RESPONSES TO YOUR POINTS BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW YOUR POINTS IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS

[gobbledygook]

Off in the distance, the battle-hardy Orc would take a flaming black sword through the back from a pretty, if off-kilter, Aasimar woman surrounded by floating, furless... dogs? This would immediately grab the attention of the town guard all too late. This stopped the fight between the man and the half-blood as both tucked away in different directions immediately afterward.

This is the Formerfish death, Miss Lynch.

[Wooper]

Gobble... Step away. You put down a bunch of links to a Pathfinder Wiki and asked me to look at that in response to me saying not to ask me to have opinions on flavourgaming stuff I don't give a shit about.

We're not going to find a middle ground here. If you want one, vote me and go get a cup of tea.

I just want you to play man. Like you keep saying “I don’t understand” and the people are giving you the tools and information to understand and you’re like “I don’t understand” and it’s just like ok?? Do something then to show us your alignment? And then you’re like “I don’t understand and I won’t be doing those things to show my alignment” and it’s just like ?????

I think I've responded in pretty good faith to people who have asked me to respond to kike, anything except flavourgaming

I'm not buying into flavourgaming. I could read a webcomic if I wanted to drown myself in lore. I'm enjoying the flavour because it makes me smile - I'm not going to analysis it and I'm not interested in other people's analysis of it :/

If it comes to a critical decision I might allow it as a factor but we're in 28/40 with a bunch of anti town flips so there's exactly nothing critical going on

If you feel I'm ignoring something that I should be replying to, hmu. If you're upset I'm ignoring flavourgaming...... I'm not sorry......

[EspressoPatronum]

She inked her letter as if all of Cobble stood or fell on its words. Her fingers fluttered the calligraphy beautifully. It was of great import to her, as always, to make certain all knew her status. Reasons like these were why she'd write in the first place. Nobody ever takes a woman as gorgeous as her seriously unless she can quip just as well with her quill as she can with her tongue. A smirk crossed her cheeks as she finished; unfortunately, she wasn't alone.

"...sleep."

A moor spellcaster was hidden in the shadows, her job complete.

I don't see where you get that Formerfish's killer is anything other than a woman.

My apologies. Please see the N1 flavour below. (Bolded for convenience)

[...]
The two would do battle then and there with neither seeming to get the upper hand on the other until the scream of an Orc broke their concentration. Off in the distance, the battle-hardy Orc would take a flaming black sword through the back from a pretty, if off-kilter,

Aasimar woman surrounded by floating

, furless... dogs? This would immediately grab the attention of the town guard all too late. This stopped the fight between the man and the half-blood as both tucked away in different directions immediately afterward.

Formerfish was murdered in the middle of town!

They were

Unnamed Orc Warrior:

Cobble-Aligned Gladiator

[gobbledygook]

Ignoring the flavor gaming is ignoring a critical portion of this game, as has been pointed out numerous times. Your refusal to engage with this portion of the game is scummy. Since you don’t think it is important, why don’t you just fully claim all the relevant flavor bits about your character? That seems like a good compromise.

[gobbledygook]

Ignoring the flavor gaming is ignoring a critical portion of this game, as has been pointed out numerous times. Your refusal to engage with this portion of the game is scummy. Since you don’t think it is important, why don’t you just fully claim all the relevant flavor bits about your character? That seems like a good compromise.

Gobble... Step away. You put down a bunch of links to a Pathfinder Wiki and asked me to look at that in response to me saying not to ask me to have opinions on flavourgaming stuff I don't give a shit about.

We're not going to find a middle ground here. If you want one, vote me and go get a cup of tea.

I just want you to play man. Like you keep saying “I don’t understand” and the people are giving you the tools and information to understand and you’re like “I don’t understand” and it’s just like ok?? Do something then to show us your alignment? And then you’re like “I don’t understand and I won’t be doing those things to show my alignment” and it’s just like ?????

I think I've responded in pretty good faith to people who have asked me to respond to kike, anything except flavourgaming

I'm not buying into flavourgaming. I could read a webcomic if I wanted to drown myself in lore. I'm enjoying the flavour because it makes me smile - I'm not going to analysis it and I'm not interested in other people's analysis of it :/

If it comes to a critical decision I might allow it as a factor but we're in 28/40 with a bunch of anti town flips so there's exactly nothing critical going on

If you feel I'm ignoring something that I should be replying to, hmu. If you're upset I'm ignoring flavourgaming...... I'm not sorry......

Ignoring the flavor gaming is ignoring a critical portion of this game, as has been pointed out numerous times. Your refusal to engage with this portion of the game is scummy. Since you don’t think it is important, why don’t you just fully claim all the relevant flavor bits about your character? That seems like a good compromise.

This is @wooper

[EspressoPatronum]

EP tell me do you believe the argument you posted?

Yes, absolutely.

If you'd like, I can respond to your wall post. It'd be easier to respond in brief though, so can you concisely sum up your problem(s) with my Wooper case?

What.
.
I made a single comment to the two points you made about Wooper, I'm not really sure how to sum it up much more than that.

9258 is a legit wall

EBWOP

I broke up your quotes

so you could see
whic point
i responded to

with what

YES IF YOU TRY TO READ THE WHOLE THING IT COUNTS AS A WALL

BUT THERE ARE TWO VERY OBVIOUS BLATANT POINTS IN TEH MIDDLE OF THE POST THAT ARE OBVIOUS RESPONSES TO YOUR POINTS BECAUSE THEY FOLLOW YOUR POINTS IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS

I'd appreciate if you kept things calm and civil. I'd like to think I've given you the same courtesy.

The reason I was asking was because I try to give responses a lot of effort. I'll often respond to comments in addition to pointed questions.

By your responses, I've gathered that you only care about my response to the specific questions you asked me in the wall. I'll respond to those now.

[Miss Lane]

EP you want a summary of what I don't like about your Wooper push?

You bring up as points against him: 1. That he has been lurky in a 40 player game. This is funny, because he has more posts than I do. Or Untrod Tripod. Or Zoraster. He has a LOT more posts than Zoraster. So that part of this isn't true. Then the second part of point one is that (and get this)

someone somewhere that you can't even remember said that being lurky is indicative of Wooper scum.

This is also pretty untrue, based on what I know of Wooper, and also based on the fact that other people have said so. You're just choosing to listen to the arguments you want to here, and you won't even list this as a point that you personally think counts against him, otherwise you'd list yourself as believing it here.

2. He refuses to defend himself or flavor claim. This is also untrue, considering the fact that he is currently defending himself, he defended himself before, and he has flavor claimed his name. You want more than that, it's pretty dishonest to present him as not flavor claiming whatsoever when he simply refused to claim as much information as you want him to. Zoraster, on the other hand, ACTUALLY hasn't flavor claimed or defended himself.

3. Zoraster was inno'd by InsideJob. This is a shady claim, regardless of the fact that it's somewhat probable. That's just the first half of point three. In the second half, you seem to try to pretend that Wooper has an overall scummy play. This is relatively untrue, unless you can point to a single thing Wooper has done that supports a scum wincon. I can do that for Zoraster, and have done so, actually.

[Wooper]

If I full claim can I go back to lurking without having people shitting on me for not wanting to play Colour By Numbers?

I enjoy you a lot turkey but if the ad had been "come form a 40p fandom for a mafia game's flavour!! " I would have steered fucking clear

[Miss Lane]

I'd appreciate if you kept things calm and civil. I'd like to think I've given you the same courtesy.

The reason I was asking was because I try to give responses a lot of effort. I'll often respond to comments in addition to pointed questions.

By your responses, I've gathered that you only care about my response to the specific questions you asked me in the wall. I'll respond to those now.

Sorry, I thought it was obvious enough the first time I said it. :/

[Wooper]

ML/EP you're likely both town. EP probably more likely than ML.

gobble is probably also town but I'm like a couple of rungs lower on this read and lol cults so these reads hardly matter yeet

[gobbledygook]

If I full claim can I go back to lurking without having people shitting on me for not wanting to play Colour By Numbers?

I enjoy you a lot turkey but if the ad had been "come form a 40p fandom for a mafia game's flavour!! " I would have steered fucking clear

Yes. I will take this deal. I can’t guarantee it doesn’t end with your death.

[Miss Lane]

ML/EP you're likely both town. EP probably more likely than ML.

gobble is probably also town but I'm like a couple of rungs lower on this read and lol cults so these reads hardly matter yeet

*growls threateningly*

[Miss Lane]

i spend a long time defending wooper

wooper tells other person he likes them and ignores me

i continue to furiously defend wooper

wooper tells me i'm probably less town than the person i'm defending him from

[Wooper]

EP is objectively incredibly wrong but he believes what he's spewing imo - I think you're a strong enough social player to recognize me as a pocket so I'm a tiny bit paranoid of you.

Take it as a compliment.

Also think you know I like you and am enjoying everything you're doing here :c sorry if it doesn't go without saying.

[Miss Lane]

EP is objectively incredibly wrong but he believes what he's spewing imo - I think you're a strong enough social player to recognize me as a pocket so I'm a tiny bit paranoid of you.

Take it as a compliment.

Also think you know I like you and am enjoying everything you're doing here :c sorry if it doesn't go without saying.

No it's ok

i think i'm just insecure i'm sorry i feel bad now

[EspressoPatronum]

Nvm, I'll do a normal response. My comments are in

this colour

. I'd appreciate a response from you.

@ML

Spoiler:

Just to bring everyone back on track + to help those who missed the case on Wooper/Zor:

We have a fairly reliable 50/50 in Zora or Wooper.

Amrun PI'd FormerFish's body to identify his killer (the aasimar woman) and 5 random names.

Sure.

Through PoE, there's a strong chance that it's Zora or Wooper. Even without Amrun's list, there's ample reasons for lynching either.

I very strongly disagree with this, and you presenting it as such makes Wooper seem like a much more repulsive lynch, and you more interesting. It should be noted that your name is on that list.

I've noted several times today that my name was on the list. The purpose of this post was a TL;DR to get people back on track. You're welcome to check my ISO to confirm.

Wooper is the better target for 3 reasons.

1) Wooper has been hard lurking. Some have mentioned this is a scumtell for Wooper.

You don't seem to believe that, I certainly don't.

What makes you think I don't believe my case on Wooper?

Other players have presented counters to this that include the fact that this isn't really a scum tell for Wooper, and this evidence is statistically unreliable being cherrypicked from select games and ignoring others.

off the top of my head, the people I trust the most in this game have said that Wooper's lurking = scummy behaviour for Wooper. Perhaps you are giving different weight to different players.

2) Wooper's response to being pushed was to essentially give up. Wooper offered no real defence + refused to claim or flavour claim.

No, it wasn't. He defended himself, and he flavor claimed. This is untrue.

Please quote me the elements of Wooper's response that you consider a 'real defence.'
I take your point about the flavour claim piece btw. Gobble highlighted that shortly after my post. I'll backtrack slightly and say that despite Wooper giving us some flavour, it isn't enough to help us with the case.

3) InsideJob's hid behind Zora and subsequently inno'd Zora. While Rauth's lie detector identified this statement as false, it's unclear when InsideJob was culted + how that impacted Rauth's results.

Exactly. The inno on Zora is shady and unreliable.

Correct, but Rauth has addressed this. Given NAR, Rauth thinks the claim would have come back as false even if Inside Job was town at the time. By no means is this exonerating evidence. It makes things unclear, which is exactly what I said.

In light of the muddied waters, it seems better to test the 50/50 on Wooper, who is more scummy.

If you're saying Wooper's play is more scummy, I'd really like you to point to where, unless you intend on pointing back to the first two points of this argument, in which case I would point out that both of those two statements are either intentional manipulations of data or ignorant of legitimate facts contrary to the assertions in them.

Can you expand on this please? Imo, it's perfectly legitimate to say that 'in light of muddied waters (ie. Point #3), it is better to vote for Wooper because he is more scummy (point #1). I'm not sure why you're saying I'm manipulating the facts

Zora is far scummier than Wooper, IMO,

*highlight*

for reasons that I've already outlined. The only legitimate reason to lynch Wooper over Zora is that Zora's "inno" is relatively plausible, but I think both player's actions are contrary to the way things look to be framed mechanically speaking.

Is it mechanically likely that Wooper is scum based solely off of Amrun's list? Yes. Are there any other good reasons? Not particularly,

not true. Remember that BB's flavour claim failed on Wooper. That's why asked about ascetic

unless you for some reason think that lurking is a good scum tell w/ 28 players remaining in the game, and even then that's a terrible argument to lynch someone, especially when there are so many actually scummy players.

I have consistently been anti-lurker in this game and all my past games. Like it or hate it, that's how I see the game. Lurking is scummy.

Your post here feels very disingenuous and manipulative, ignorant of events that prove contrary to it,

do you actually believe this? I'd like to think I'm paying very close attention to the game.

and it very much feels like you think Wooper is scum and are manipulating facts to fit your evidence.

[EspressoPatronum]

If I full claim can I go back to lurking without having people shitting on me for not wanting to play Colour By Numbers?

I enjoy you a lot turkey but if the ad had been "come form a 40p fandom for a mafia game's flavour!! " I would have steered fucking clear

While I can't say for certain, I can say that a full claim would significantly increase your chances of not getting lynched. If it can be verified by others and/or the flavour, there's an even better chance!

[Wooper]

I'm a paranoid bat owner. If anyone targets me, they are muted and lose their vote+voice for half the next phase. My flavour is that I'm a cool old occultist dude who lives on the edge of town and has bats and does spooky occult stuff at night :3

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm a paranoid bat owner. If anyone targets me, they are muted and lose their vote+voice for half the next phase. My flavour is that I'm a cool old occultist dude who lives on the edge of town and has bats and does spooky occult stuff at night :3

I was motivated last night so thanks to whoever

Wooper are you ascetic?

Fairly confident KidAmn is town.

Hmmm

[gobbledygook]

Wooper literally just scumclaimed.

[EspressoPatronum]

BB posted that at the beginning of the day.

[Wooper]

Nope, as I said if I were ascetic I would have claimed it first post. Fml pc BBM is confirmed blocked that night.

[Wooper]

fmpov*