Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Amrun]

Also, you’re wrong that the wagon is not being pushed outside of you.

[Something_Smart]

Amrun wagon is hot garbage.

[Amrun]

However, yours is the only actual original push so I guess that depends on your definition. My point is there is scum in AT LEAST one of the sheeps, maybe two.

[Salamence20]

Amrun wagon is hot garbage.

Honestly I was waiting for you to intent for hammer.

I would have thrown my ipad across the room.

What do you mean by “a chain”? Im not saying locktown but yeah I think those are both behaviours that come more often from town so *shrug*

I hard disagree on lynching a lurker

I think scum is normally gonna have at least one active player so I think the best bet is to aim for that, it’s a huge gamble for the entire scumtesm to lurk out the game hoping no one will target them, plus the more interactions a player has the easier it is to sort around them even they are a mislynch

You’re right about the counter wagon tbf that’s another thing that’s unsettling

Chainsaw, sorry. I was regarding to Amrun and I’s votes on DW.

Lynching lurkers gives mixed results but it town goes downhill they become even more harder to remove.

I have no issue with you, I just dont think this is going to end up with a red flip.

[AaronFrost]

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

[Salamence20]

Re: DDL.

I think some of it is just playstyle. However, in a game I replaced into with him in it, his reads were actually OK. He was eventually NK by scum, though I didn’t personally understand the kill.

In any case, it does seem to be a departure from his play that game since he’s like afraid to take stances here. So I could see it.

P-

edit: Because I’m town, and there’s scum pushing it somewhere. And that’s EXACTLY what Salamence20 was saying when you said he’s “shading the whole wagon,” which isn’t what he’s doing, IMO.

Okay so here’s my objection to that: I don’t think this wagon is really being pushed outside of me?

And I don’t read anyone else on it early ss scummy, so I think this is v much a town motivated wagon which makes that “tell me this is all town” comment an effort to shade the wagon fmpov

Now if I’m wrong on you, I think scum probably did jump on, but towards the end of the wagon less than the start

If I’m right then sally trying to discredit the early wagon (ie the impetus for the whole thing) was def an attempt to stop it gaining traction

I agree overall - but what I’m saying is that Salamence20 was saying LITERALLY the same exact thing as you are saying.

I think the scumhop onto the wagon is GL.

UNVOTE:

Don't really want to do Amrun anymore. I think this is a better vote for today.

VOTE: Guilty Lion

His hop on the Amrun wagon was gross and I agree lack of a counterwagon is unsettling.

[Salamence20]

Idk what the first quote was there for.

But why GL vs anyone else AF?

[AaronFrost]

amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum, AaronFrost,

{Dogwatch, GuiltyLion, Creature}

<-- Pretty sure at least one of these three are scum. Possibly more than one.

PEDIT: I think his hop on the Amrun wagon was the worst

[Salamence20]

Buckle-up, we have a counterwagon.

VOTE: GL

[AaronFrost]

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi.

Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia

. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

VOTE: Amrun

Why exactly did he join the wagon anyways? He makes it clear that his read on alimdia is much stronger but then joins the wagon after saying scum is on it because... why? How is he reading Amrun? He never says.

Earlier he also stated he townreads Icon, Mena, Dogwatch and Creature. Then before he hops on he includes me and Datisi in his townreads. That's literally the entire wagon right there.

[Salamence20]

alright I've read up but my energy is rapidly draining as it's been a long couple days and it's getting late here. I'll be around more for a bit tonight but ~ real effort ~ will come tomorrow probably.

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi. Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

AF - do you still want me to explain my townreads from half the game ago? I can do that but frankly I don't really want to unless this will genuinely help you sort me

VOTE: Amrun

It bothers me that you have a stronger read on Alimdia. Why not vote there?

Because i don't think voting Alimdia would generate any info or likely lead to a lynch and in a game with this many people it's better to wagon than to vanity vote

What do you think of this @sslly?

What do you think of this @AFF?

[AaronFrost]

If he's townreading everyone on the wagon, then how is there good odds of scum on it from his point of view?

PEDIT: Really seems like he cares how he looks in that post. Like I feel like as town no matter what you should go for your strongest scumreads.

[Amrun]

There are times when vanity wagons are bad, and you need to compromise.

Early day 1 in a relatively dead large theme isn’t it.

[DogWatch]

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

[Amrun]

@dogwatch:

I like him a lot less now. I still think he’s low priority for today, but he seems to be avoided saying anything of relevance, and isn’t really fun fluff posting either.

[Amrun]

#589 refers to Creature (for future ISO)

[DogWatch]

Im uneasy about meanlque.

But Creature is looking worse to me. I’ve always known Creature to be highly game-solvey as town and lacking in motivation as scum (again, it’s been years but that’s what I remember) and I don’t understand how his posts in this game come from town motivation.

@amrun, why do you think a player who sloppily put you at L-1 with no explanation is a lower priority? Genuine question, not necessarily agreeing or disagreeing.

Id vote creature but don’t think we’re getting a creature lynch today. Not opposed to GL though. I know he’s a good player and his vote looks uncharacteristic.

[Amrun]

I think Creature will become obvious scum in time if he is scum. I wouldn’t cry at his lynch but if he IS town, I think it would be scum’s wet dream to lynch him day 1.

[Amrun]

Not because his strength as a player, per se, but just I think his ability to be misread as scum decreases as time goes on. If he’s town.

[DogWatch]

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi.

Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia

. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

VOTE: Amrun

Why exactly did he join the wagon anyways? He makes it clear that his read on alimdia is much stronger but then joins the wagon after saying scum is on it because... why? How is he reading Amrun? He never says.

Earlier he also stated he townreads Icon, Mena, Dogwatch and Creature. Then before he hops on he includes me and Datisi in his townreads. That's literally the entire wagon right there.

I took it to mean that he thinks the wagon has good odds of flipping scum (amrun), not necessarily that scum is on the wagon itself. So I’m not sure he’s really being contradictory here.

[Salamence20]

Hey this is kinda off topic but:

Hey Datisi, do you always do notetaking in your own pt?

[DrDolittle]

Amrun I'm sure we've played before your hiatus

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: gl because everyone else is too

[alimdia]

Datisi, how come you guys are still going about the NAI for the Mena's scumteam shit ~ ~

Lets go further with this.
If you were to suddenly die, we would gain 0 information regardless if you were scum or town. That's how you've been playing so far. Thats more scummy than NAI or towny.

Maybe.

But don't pretend that this isn't true for anyone else. Just because someone made a vote, or got voted, and then flipped town, doesn't mean their vote was right, or that there was scum in the people voting them. (Inversely, if they flipped scum, it doesn't make the person they voted nor the ones voting them town.)

Information doesn't magically spring from flips. It springs from discussion. You have discussion, you form reads, you get flips, you look back and analyze.

If you wanted me to generate some reads, of course I could. I could pull names out of a hat, or maybe look at the alignment of the stars. Or I could try to read heavily into early game posting. All of these would have the same result: the reads would be garbage. And don't try to tell me that garbage reads are valuable post-flip.

I will share reads when I want, and not before. End of discussion.

Actually no, most other people we lynch we'll get more info than you. THe way you're playing is very scummy. You just sit back, post some fluff, interject some stuff, ask some questions with no follow up. Does nobody else see this as scummy?

Don't really like alim's push on SS. Feels like its based off of a playstyle clash and not on reasons why he thinks SS is actually scummy.

Also AF and DDL should tell the class why my exaggerated complaints about SS are AI

They aren't AI, but just like I said about alim's push on SS, I think it's a playstyle clash. The outburst just seemed unwarranted to me.

You meant the outburst when people say 'meta' when I have an actual case on them?

Mena, alim, S_S, Aaron can be Town

Thanks bby

[alimdia]

I'm updating my townreads to include AF and Datisi. Amrun is a spicy wagon that I think has p good odds of scum and I'm gonna join it, but right now I feel I got a stronger read on alimdia. I think the S_S tunnel is a distraction and disingenuous, and has given alimdia cover not to comment on anything else actually relevant going on.

I feel like I'm being misrepped here.

I'm actually tired af atm so I'll reread your case against Amrun later, as well as his ISO

I'm actually tired af atm so I'll reread your case against Amrun later, as well as his ISO

I haven't forgotten about this. Unfortunately I'm still busy atm so I'll delay this till tonight.

I will also look at the people that have posted less.

@Mod V/la for the next 36 hours

Sorry guys

Also me making the case against SS happened before the Amrun wagon went full on I think?