Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

Yep. I think p townsided.

Like we got punished for finding the cop first, almost

[Sujimichi]

Only unclaimed people at that point were me, you, and fetched

Ohh that's the part I was missing.

Man this setup is quite townsided but that's fixable, and I really like it. It has a ton of mechanical depth. I'm very good with mechanics and even then I made multiple mechanical mistakes.

I'm curious as to how you determine whether something is skewed towards the town or skewed toward the mafia.

[Luca Blight]

Yep. I think p townsided.

Like we got punished for finding the cop first, almost

It’s not too difficult finding the cop when you know the draft order, though

I think whether it’s town or scum sided comes down to which team gets what powers. In this case Town has a few good PR’s and scum had one good PR, so I wouldn’t necessarily say it was town-sided. Scum also had day chat and could co-ordinate their picks.

[Something_Smart]

I'm curious as to how you determine whether something is skewed towards the town or skewed toward the mafia.

A simple metric is to look at how many errors town can make and still win. An error is when town (or scum, acting as a town role) lynches, shoots, or cop checks another townie (it's an error because that's a missed chance to get scum).

We mislynched noms, Flubber, and wooper, and we copped Aaron, Adorable, Kerset, and Suji, and we vigged Xayah, and that's not even counting the two investigative shots that targeted dead people or Sirfetchd preventing skitter from giving a result.

rb and I were PR's and would probably have had to be killed anyway. So in effect, all we had to do to win this game was trust that Luca was town. And that was after wasting two cop shots and two gunsmith shots.

And we didn't even have a doctor. Imagine if one of the VT's had been doctor, how screwed scum would have been.

[Luca Blight]

Town didn’t actually cop Frost, Suji or Adorable - that was Skitter pretending to be gunsmith.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, that's why I said "or scum, acting as a town role"-- because she was still pretty much forced into doing that by the mechanics.

[Something_Smart]

The lack of multitasking actually makes the setup REALLY interesting but it is just such a huge blow to scum that a lot of the PR's would have to be neutered.

Probably an easier way to fix it would be to add multitasking and tone down some of the clearing roles. (And also decouple neighborizer and gunsmith because come on that's basically cop and VT).

[skitter30]

I think i could have won this with multitasking. A lot of the choices we would have made would have been very different with multitasking

Lack of multitasking is ... hard

[Something_Smart]

Also wooper

Read the scum thread and then tell me that massclaim wasn't a bad idea

Like my stubbornness was the only thing that kept town from completely controlling the massclaim and even then it wasn't enough as skitter was able to figure out to claim no result on me.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, that's why I said "or scum, acting as a town role"-- because she was still pretty much forced into doing that by the mechanics.

But then that comes down to more of a scum error/good town play imo. The Gunsmith/neighbourizer bracket probably wasn’t a great scum pick, and scum had time to co-ordinate and discuss their picks pre-game.

[Sujimichi]

I'm curious as to how you determine whether something is skewed towards the town or skewed toward the mafia.

A simple metric is to look at how many errors town can make and still win. An error is when town (or scum, acting as a town role) lynches, shoots, or cop checks another townie (it's an error because that's a missed chance to get scum).

We mislynched noms, Flubber, and wooper, and we copped Aaron, Adorable, Kerset, and Suji, and we vigged Xayah, and that's not even counting the two investigative shots that targeted dead people or Sirfetchd preventing skitter from giving a result.

rb and I were PR's and would probably have had to be killed anyway. So in effect, all we had to do to win this game was trust that Luca was town. And that was after wasting two cop shots and two gunsmith shots.

And we didn't even have a doctor. Imagine if one of the VT's had been doctor, how screwed scum would have been.

This is interesting. Thank you.

[Something_Smart]

I think i could have won this with multitasking. A lot of the choices we would have made would have been very different with multitasking

Actually in this specific instance I don't think it would have helped, since all your actions were faked anyway. Since I didn't realize there wasn't multitasking I actually thought your result on me was real, and if you'd gone neighborizer instead of gunsmith we'd never have let you live to LYLO.

But I suppose if I realized you weren't multitasking I'd have probably figured out you tried to kill me so I guess you got lucky in that regard

[Something_Smart]

But then that comes down to more of a scum error/good town play imo. The Gunsmith/neighbourizer bracket probably wasn’t a great scum pick, and scum had time to co-ordinate and discuss their picks pre-game.

Well yeah but if they didn't take it a townie would have, and the result would have been similar.

[skitter30]

I think i could have won this with multitasking. A lot of the choices we would have made would have been very different with multitasking

Actually in this specific instance I don't think it would have helped, since all your actions were faked anyway. Since I didn't realize there wasn't multitasking I actually thought your result on me was real, and if you'd gone neighborizer instead of gunsmith we'd never have let you live to LYLO.

But I suppose if I realized you weren't multitasking I'd have probably figured out you tried to kill me so I guess you got lucky in that regard

If we were multitasking sirfetched would presumably be jk'ing people and i would have been able to play as i neighborizer, which is what i was originally going for

Like we both would have been able to take actions and still make the nk

Also if i were a real gunsmith who actually checked you, i would have gotten a real result, and wouldnf have had to guess.

[Something_Smart]

Also if i were a real gunsmith who actually checked you, i would have gotten a real result, and wouldnf have had to guess.

But you wouldn't have checked me and killed me in the same night

You would have had a different result, but it would have been real, and not a waste of a result like your check on me was.

Also like I said if you tried to play as neighborizer I'd have called you out for essentially passing up a cop.

[skitter30]

Ya fair enough

[Kerset]

So S_S what was your action the night you died?

[Something_Smart]

I healed Aaron. Scum correctly predicted that JK'ing me and killing Aaron would have been a disaster.

[popsofctown]

I don't know whenever there is any point in this day. I should basically assume that you are scum, who was too afraid to gamble with me.

KERSET IS A BALLER
24/7
DON'T ANYONE EVER FORGET

[Something_Smart]

Also wooper

Read the scum thread and then tell me that massclaim wasn't a bad idea

Like my stubbornness was the only thing that kept

scum

from completely controlling the massclaim and even then it wasn't enough as skitter was able to figure out to claim no result on me.

EBWOP

Also hi pops

[TheWizard]

Role Picks:

Spoiler:

Flubbernugget 5, 7  Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO (active)
rb 6, 9 Sane Cop OR 2-shot Redirector | Jailkeeper OR Tracker 
Sirfetchd 8, 3   Jailkeeper OR Tracker | Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO (active) 
Something_Smart 9, 1 1-shot Governor OR 5-ability JOAT | Neighborizer OR Gunsmith (Positive result on Mafia, Vigilantes, PGO, & CONDITIONALLY JOAT) 
AaronFrost 10, 5 Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop | Doctor OR Roleblocker 
Xayah 11, 21  Sane Cop OR 2-shot Redirector | Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop     
skitter30 42, 5   Neighborizer OR Gunsmith (Positive result on Mafia, Vigilantes, PGO, & CONDITIONALLY JOAT) | Night 2 Vigilante OR Vengeful 
Kerset 1, 1  Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop | Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher  
PMysterious 1, 4 Sane Cop OR 2-shot Redirector | Neighborizer OR Gunsmith (Positive result on Mafia, Vigilantes, PGO, & CONDITIONALLY JOAT) 
wooper 3, 2 Night 2 Vigilante OR Vengeful | Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher 
Sujimichi 3, 4 Neighborizer OR Gunsmith (Positive result on Mafia, Vigilantes, PGO, & CONDITIONALLY JOAT) | Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher 
Luca Blight 4, 5 Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO (active) | Night 2 Vigilante OR Vengeful 
nomnomnom 4, 7 Perfectionist Vigilante OR 1-shot PGO (active) | Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher 
Billy Pilgrim 4, 8 Conditional-Commuter OR 1-shot Watcher | Universal Backup w/ 1-shot override OR Role Cop

Actual Roles and Night Actions:

Spoiler:

Flubbernugget 5, 7  1-shot PGO
rb 6, 9  Sane Cop - n1 checks Flubbernugget
Sirfetchd 8, 3  Jailkeeper n1 jks Wooper n2 jks Flubbernugget n3 kills Something_Smart
Something_Smart 9, 1  5-ability JOAT n1 cops rb n2 commutes n3 docs AaronFrost
AaronFrost 10, 5  Universal Backup d2 becomes sane cop n2 checks Xayah n3 checks Kerset n4 checks Sujimichi
Xayah 11, 21  Vanilla
skitter30 42, 5  Neighborizer n1 kills rb n2 kills Something_Smart n4 kills AaronFrost n5 kills Sujimichi n6 kills Adorable
Kerset 1, 1  Commuter n5 commutes
PMysterious 1, 4  Vanilla
Wooper 3, 2  Night 2 Vig n2 kills Xayah
Sujimichi 3, 4  Vanilla
Luca Blight 4, 5  Vanilla
nomnomnom 4, 7  Vanilla
Billy Pilgrim 4, 8  Vanilla

[TheWizard]

Lack of multitasking makes Neighborizer an incredibly risky role for mafia to use (they'd be screwed if Neighborizer were the only mafia left). And pairing it with Gunsmith makes it effectively a scumclaim anyway.

[the worst]

gg guys! well played.

[Wooper]

@SS I actually think we softguiltied Sirf via massclaim and only really left skitter alive so long because she was able to clear people

This game wasn't close at all, I feel mass claim was faaaaairly justified

[TheWizard]

I'm now taking pre-ins for my next game, Spooky Mafia:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11439265