Newbie 1972 | Game Over

[Alexcellent]

Okay I'm pretty much caught up.

My reads are something like this.

Creature; TheWorst
Geraintm
Zoomie; Uncrowned
Ldog
NacL; Arkias

Get strong townie vibes from Creature & TheWorst.
Geraintm null-ish. Nothing screaming scum from him and I just am sort of getting more townie feeling from him but nothing solid.
I think Faustiv's awful entrance is being overblown and I'm just kind of null on Zoomie at the moment. Having a hard time placing Uncrowned. I feel like he's been on the defensive for most of this game. Kind of want to mull this one over a bit more.
Ldog null with a slight scum lean, not a huge fan of his reaction to being voted, as stated but I don't necessarily see that as a scum tell. I do get a bit of a "wait and see what everyone else does" vibe from him though, which I don't like.
Like I said in a previous post, Arkias coming across like he doesn't want to rock the boat and is playing very carefully. 47 and 271 are prime examples. NacL just feels very non-committal and pretty vague, and 356 reads don't sit right with me.

Think it's unlikely that Loserdude/NacL are a scum team, but think there's likely 1 scum between them. I could see NacL/Arkias scum team.

I'm probably fine with a lynch on either Nacl/Arkias/Ldog today

[Alexcellent]

Btw, I am still confused about how you can add older posts to your post to respond.

Ah, press the quote button! There's one in the right corner of each post (on PC, can't remember if it's different on mobile)

[Alexcellent]

Also it's 4am here, I'm going to bed

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.16

NaCl (3) ~

Creature, the worst, Alexcellent

Alexcellent (2) ~

LoserdudeOG, geraintm

LoserdudeOG (1) ~

NaCl

Zoomie8432 (1) ~

Uncrowned

Arkias (1) ~

Zoomie8432

Not voting (1) ~

Arkias

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-12-15 18:22:46)

Mod Notes

geraintm is V/LA on weekends

Arkias is V/LA through Friday Dec 13th

[Zoomie8432]

Cool, this started quick.

VOTE: Uncrowned

I would vote the worst, although I don't really want to put him at L-1 so early.

Okay, my thoughts on things.

People have shifted a bit, but I'm more or less in the same position.

My townreads from top to bottom are this:

Creature
Thomth
Arkias
Uncrowned
The Worst
everyone else

Creature is mostly a meta thing. In a previous game of mine, my scumpartner killed him because she said he was pretty easy to tell if he's town, and my feeling is that he's town. I'm going to assume he's not playing crazy mind games.
Thomth I've discussed before, nothing to add here.
Arkias I'm liking more after he unvoted. I don't think that he would need to reconsider so quickly as scum, and could keep his vote there if he needed to think of his next possible target, or moving it to someone else if he had one in mind.
Uncrowned, I liked him initially, but I haven't really been looking too much into his recent posts, I need to revisit him.
The Worst is someone who I also liked initially, but I'm somewhat put off by his excessive helping of newbies. I think it's possible that it's a thing to subtly improve their opinion of him. It's not necessarily scummy, though, as this is a newbie game. TW, do you have a town game where you do this you could link to?

Now, among the others. I mostly feel like both Ldog and Geraintm were angling for an easy lynch on Thomth. And Zoomie hasn't really done anything, in my opinion. I would be okay to lynch Zoomie right now, but at the moment I'm not really too enthusiastic right now. I'm going to look back Geraintm in the morning and evaluate if I should be moving my vote there instead of Ldog, I'm not really sure and I'm kind of tired right now.

Ldog, could you respond to 259?

Now, let's look at the votes and positions. For this, I'm going to assume my 2 top townreads (Creature and Thomth) are town.
I would love to say that scum is in those 3 people I'm most suspicious of, but I don't feel too strong about it.
I do 100% think that there is scum that was on the Thomth wagon. I think it's most likely 1, but possibly 2 (if it's 2, that wouldn't necessarily mean it's Geraintm and Ldog, Arkias could be there and it would explain the unvote).
I also think there is something going on with Uncrowned and TW and it's possible there's scum in there, but at most 1. I really need to look at them again, though. I think they're both being moderately townread, and it would not benefit a scum Uncrowned to go and try to discredit his scum partner in such a situation.
Zoomie is hard to read and could really be scum with anyone of my suspects, though.

Lots of this is very telling about NaCl, but all of the reads have been much different. You've had some mistakes in there, but the reads I am getting on you after a thorough review, as the weird vote explanation, to all of the townread explanations on their tier. I'm afraid this is a L-1 for you. VOTE: NaCl

[Zoomie8432]

A meta can't just be followed. Some people have a very good way of hiding their own. I can't really agree with it however, since of how I haven't played with him before. TW has some really good stuff with him, so I know he's fine.

[Zoomie8432]

Ark has quite a bit of scumread on him, especially on 271. However, you not realizing that earlier may have lead you to either hide it, or just forget.

[the worst]

And regarding your Thomth read, when did he go so high in your opinion? Last I remember was that you were feeling he was kind of towny in some ways and kind of scummy in others, and suddenly he's at the front of the pack?

I thought I'd spoken about him more but my brain is roughly the size of an apricot. He won an rvs townread out of me for the snibby snab thing; I think it takes a really fucking odd mindset to reach that kind of post as scum. Not impossible but strong anti-newbscum read for page ~3.

Outside of that he hasn't really given a fuck how he's perceived when people have thrown shade at him or even just joked around with him but the reads he dropped and questions he asked late in his iso were pretty nuanced.

His iso indicates he's more interested in sorting people than in looking good. He also picked up a tonne of flak earlier in the game and I feel like the main person flying to his defence was... me :{

don't know what to expect from Thomth's scum game but really don't feel like this is it

LdOG I'll go into in a bit.

[NaCl]

I don't actually have much to say, because I feel like I've solved things in my head kind of, and I'm feeling like {Creature, Uncrowned, Thomth, TW} are town. I'm kind of thinking Arkias is scum as well, but Arkias and TW are the slots I'm least sure on. But I keep having doubts on this, though. Still, I think that can be dealt with later, and right now I want to lynch Loserdude the most out of my non-town pool. VOTE: Loserdude

TW, did you explain why you voted Uncrowned? I missed it if you did. I actually didn't really believe he was scum when I voted him, I was mostly doing so because I was curious if anyone would move from you to him, or vote him in general.

Creature, I think you have too many townreads and should re-evaluate. I'm really not seeing anything from Loserdude that make me think he's town, although I do agree with your assessment on Thomth. To me, he doesn't seem to actually care about trying to find scum, and feels like he's taking a stance to try and not get directly involved in positions where he can be questioned.

This rubbing me the wrong way, like a lot. You claim to have solved things in your head, yet you leave so many options open and are so vague. You include TW in your town reads, but also say you're the least sure about them???? You think Arkias is scum, but are also unsure. You don't want to explain any of this and you just vote for Loserdude because I guess of a lack of anything appearing to be town in his posts. But you don't point to anything scummy that he's said or any specifics. This is heaps dodgy.

VOTE: NaCL

How am I leaving options open? Yes, I'm unsure of my reads, does that not happen to you?
I can feel that some people are towny and feel more sure on some of my reads than on others. I'm just stating my relative opinions on them.

At the time, I was less sure of my reads on TW and Arkias...what's your point?

My vote was on Loserdude because there was one scum on the Thomth wagon and I think he was the most suspicious, as he felt the most like his read on Thomth felt exaggerated relative to what Thomth did, and was too quick to jump out at him being scum. I don't think that's really something that's super telling to be scum, but I was townreading most of the other people, and he was the one I found most suspicious of in my lynchpool.

[NaCl]

My wagon feels mostly town driven.

If there is scum in there, it's Zoomie, though. Although I really can't say, because I do not understand 429 at all. Zoomie, I really need you to spell it out for me, because I don't see a reason in there.

TW, I still want to hear about Ldog, because it feels like everyone is mostly considering him slightly townish, and I'm the only one who disagrees.

[Zoomie8432]

I forgot about details for a moment. Sorry. Lots doesn't settle well, plus why didn't you ask me back then for more about the first L-1? I had remembered that the L-1 is a issue for lots of people, but I was confused why you really didn't go for the L-1, and went for Uncrowned at that point. If I get a newer list, that may let me get that fixed.

[Uncrowned]

I'm not sure about NaCl. I think I'm open to Thomth/Faustiv lynches but think we need to hear more from both of them.

Yeah I'm not really a fan of the push on Thomth. Feel like it's too easy.

What changed your opinion Uncrowned?

Tbh I was just being a dick and didnt want to put effort into trying to read a style I wasn't comfortable in (Thomths style)

I came around to the idea that he's lynch bait and that styles like his can still produce AI content, and his stuff didnt really strike me as scummy. I think I did a post where i quoted all the stuff from him that I thought was townie

[Alexcellent]

I don't actually have much to say, because I feel like I've solved things in my head kind of, and I'm feeling like {Creature, Uncrowned, Thomth, TW} are town. I'm kind of thinking Arkias is scum as well, but Arkias and TW are the slots I'm least sure on. But I keep having doubts on this, though. Still, I think that can be dealt with later, and right now I want to lynch Loserdude the most out of my non-town pool. VOTE: Loserdude

TW, did you explain why you voted Uncrowned? I missed it if you did. I actually didn't really believe he was scum when I voted him, I was mostly doing so because I was curious if anyone would move from you to him, or vote him in general.

Creature, I think you have too many townreads and should re-evaluate. I'm really not seeing anything from Loserdude that make me think he's town, although I do agree with your assessment on Thomth. To me, he doesn't seem to actually care about trying to find scum, and feels like he's taking a stance to try and not get directly involved in positions where he can be questioned.

This rubbing me the wrong way, like a lot. You claim to have solved things in your head, yet you leave so many options open and are so vague. You include TW in your town reads, but also say you're the least sure about them???? You think Arkias is scum, but are also unsure. You don't want to explain any of this and you just vote for Loserdude because I guess of a lack of anything appearing to be town in his posts. But you don't point to anything scummy that he's said or any specifics. This is heaps dodgy.

VOTE: NaCL

How am I leaving options open? Yes, I'm unsure of my reads, does that not happen to you?
I can feel that some people are towny and feel more sure on some of my reads than on others. I'm just stating my relative opinions on them.

At the time, I was less sure of my reads on TW and Arkias...what's your point?

My vote was on Loserdude because there was one scum on the Thomth wagon and I think he was the most suspicious, as he felt the most like his read on Thomth felt exaggerated relative to what Thomth did, and was too quick to jump out at him being scum. I don't think that's really something that's super telling to be scum, but I was townreading most of the other people, and he was the one I found most suspicious of in my lynchpool.

All the time, but the way you've phrased it is weird. I don't normally say that I think I've solved something and then give very shaky reads.
Why did you think Arkias was scum?
You don't think Thomth's wagon could have been a town wagon?

[NaCl]

I forgot about details for a moment. Sorry. Lots doesn't settle well, plus why didn't you ask me back then for more about the first L-1? I had remembered that the L-1 is a issue for lots of people, but I was confused why you really didn't go for the L-1, and went for Uncrowned at that point. If I get a newer list, that may let me get that fixed.

The first L-1 is almost completely irrelevant to me. The only vote in that series that I considered to be even slightly alignment-relevant was Thomth's. I think that analyzing early game RVS wagons is not very productive, because they're fairly arbitrary. They grow more relevant as more people get votes, but especially regarding the early voters, it could be scum or town and I don't see any reason as to why it's more likely for one than the other.

I voted for Uncrowned because that would have put him as the second highest wagon, and I was curious if someone else would follow on after me and put both the wagons at L-2. I think that could have been relevant if it happened. I wasn't actually suspecting Uncrowned. Also, I didn't vote TW because it was possible there would be a quickhammer or something, I can never really be sure.

I don't actually have much to say, because I feel like I've solved things in my head kind of, and I'm feeling like {Creature, Uncrowned, Thomth, TW} are town. I'm kind of thinking Arkias is scum as well, but Arkias and TW are the slots I'm least sure on. But I keep having doubts on this, though. Still, I think that can be dealt with later, and right now I want to lynch Loserdude the most out of my non-town pool. VOTE: Loserdude

TW, did you explain why you voted Uncrowned? I missed it if you did. I actually didn't really believe he was scum when I voted him, I was mostly doing so because I was curious if anyone would move from you to him, or vote him in general.

Creature, I think you have too many townreads and should re-evaluate. I'm really not seeing anything from Loserdude that make me think he's town, although I do agree with your assessment on Thomth. To me, he doesn't seem to actually care about trying to find scum, and feels like he's taking a stance to try and not get directly involved in positions where he can be questioned.

This rubbing me the wrong way, like a lot. You claim to have solved things in your head, yet you leave so many options open and are so vague. You include TW in your town reads, but also say you're the least sure about them???? You think Arkias is scum, but are also unsure. You don't want to explain any of this and you just vote for Loserdude because I guess of a lack of anything appearing to be town in his posts. But you don't point to anything scummy that he's said or any specifics. This is heaps dodgy.

VOTE: NaCL

How am I leaving options open? Yes, I'm unsure of my reads, does that not happen to you?
I can feel that some people are towny and feel more sure on some of my reads than on others. I'm just stating my relative opinions on them.

At the time, I was less sure of my reads on TW and Arkias...what's your point?

My vote was on Loserdude because there was one scum on the Thomth wagon and I think he was the most suspicious, as he felt the most like his read on Thomth felt exaggerated relative to what Thomth did, and was too quick to jump out at him being scum. I don't think that's really something that's super telling to be scum, but I was townreading most of the other people, and he was the one I found most suspicious of in my lynchpool.

All the time, but the way you've phrased it is weird. I don't normally say that I think I've solved something and then give very shaky reads.
Why did you think Arkias was scum?
You don't think Thomth's wagon could have been a town wagon?

I don't think that my reads are shaky. And I think that it's fine to have a few shaky reads, not all of them need to be rock solid. Because most of my reads were solid, but when I have 5 people who I'm thinking are town, I don't need to have a super clear read on all of them. Because I'm not the only player, my opinions will probably change over time, and there are PRs in the game that may investigate and help deal with mistakes.

As for Arkias, I initially didn't really like him due to his posting style and also 47 had felt a bit weird to me. Mostly because I didn't really think that putting TW to L-1 was really relevant in any way and I also didn't see what he disliked over Uncrowned. Also, I was sort of floating the idea of him and TW being scum together but I don't really think that's likely anymore.

I don't think Thomth's wagon was because my townreads are off it, and also because the votes on him felt really empty and without reason. Like, compare them with most of the reasons for the wagon on me. Because I consider that because of my failure to communicate, and the wagon on Thomth was "he put this guy to L-1, let's get him!"

[Creature]

zzzzz

[Creature]

I have absolutely nothing to add here

[the worst]

ditto
i don't feel like nacl is really doing anything towny

[Zoomie8432]

Let's wait for the rest. See if they have anything to assist or worsen it.

[NaCl]

Creature, I don't know if you read my posts in Assassins Mafia, but when I'm scum, I literally do less than what I do here.

If there's scum in my wagon, it's Zoomie.

My townreads are pretty much the same as last time.
You're welcome.

[NaCl]

TW, do you plan on trying to convince me on Ldog? Because it really doesn't feel like he's doing anything, and the Thomth wagon felt like it had weak reasoning.

[Zoomie8432]

I can see where you're coming from on the suspicion on me, NaCl. I am normally more of a confided player, as I like to burst at times, but only if I have something that may help, or if I am confident. I may want to break out of that habit sometime soon.

[NaCl]

Zoomie, I can't understand what you're saying, and I don't get why you find me scummy at all. I see that you're saying something, but I can't understand what it even means and how it would indicate your thought process.

[the worst]

yeah i'm keen to dive deeper into LdOG
basically i'm @werk atm and really owe it to myself to reread his iso critically
which i can't really do whilst at work
i'm working tonight and DMing a dnd session tmrw so it's more likely i'll be around sunday

which is eerily close to deadline but it's when i can kinda Effort

[Zoomie8432]

With how things are, It's primarily since of how early game was placed, as the vote on Uncrowned was for no reason at that point, and I really don't know why you have Ark as a townread, although we have explanations as to how he may still be scum from all of this, as he was submissive in 271. That submissiveness at first in my eyes was fine, before I started to read between the lines. There was more to his unvote than thought. Based on how he said it was bad play, I don't think it was exactly just that. He may have some actual reads off of him at that point, outside of it, even though Thomth was confirmed town in that by most players eyes.

[Zoomie8432]

Sometimes, reading into detail is important for not just one person, but for the whole town.