Newbie 1972 | Game Over

[Zoomie8432]

One more thing. Just because creature can be very town-telling if he's town, he may still be scum even after. People have really good ways of blending in. Never get into a meta on a single player.

[the worst]

i mean meta can be very very effective - but i agree, don't sell your soul to meta.

zoomie.. your reads sound an awful lot like mine :p

[NaCl]

VOTE: Zoomie

Zoomie, do you think Creature is town, yes or no? I don't know where you really stand on anyone other than me and Arkias.

[NaCl]

With how things are, It's primarily since of how early game was placed, as the vote on Uncrowned was for no reason at that point, and I really don't know why you have Ark as a townread, although we have explanations as to how he may still be scum from all of this, as he was submissive in 271. That submissiveness at first in my eyes was fine, before I started to read between the lines. There was more to his unvote than thought. Based on how he said it was bad play, I don't think it was exactly just that. He may have some actual reads off of him at that point, outside of it, even though Thomth was confirmed town in that by most players eyes.

Also, I finally understand this, and all of these reasons are forced and opportunistic.
The other people (okay, not Creature, but that's different) mentioned reasons that I'm scummy. You mentioned things you disagreed with.

[Zoomie8432]

Heh. Sometimes good minds think alike, eh TW?

NaCl, right now, I can tell that creature has good reads of town, but if you and some others just created a meta like that, he can abuse that meta. Gotta know at times when the meta can be your own demise. I do mention parts I disagree with, but it's since of how things are. I can't always have details just be found as one way. Taking it as face value can be a issue if we have them actually as scum.

[Zoomie8432]

Try to think of both perspectives out of this. Could be scum, or town out of this? Both have strong support to them, but I'm leaning more towards scum.

[NaCl]

Okay. And this scumread...can you explain why? Because you've been telling me why I shouldn't think he's town, but I'm not following why you think he's scum.

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.17

NaCl (4) ~

Creature, the worst, Alexcellent, Zoomie8432

Alexcellent (2) ~

LoserdudeOG, geraintm

Zoomie8432 (2) ~

Uncrowned, NaCl

Not voting (1) ~

Arkias

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2019-12-15 18:22:46)

Mod Notes

geraintm is V/LA on weekends

Arkias is V/LA through Friday Dec 13th

[NaCl]

I believe I'm at L-1, I think zoomie voted me?

~Fixed.

[Zoomie8432]

Both of his votes at the time I am afraid didn't get any explanation or traction. The thing with Thmoth setting TW to L-1 so people could aggro on to him after the discussion was actually somewhat important for this, as with his scumbait. I would however, like a explanation when he comes back to see why he voted Thmoth in the first place.

[NaCl]

Wait, are we talking past each other here? I'm referring to Creature, who I'm pretty sure never voted Thomth.

[Zoomie8432]

Ohhh. You mean creature.

[Zoomie8432]

I forgot to space some stuff out when I was putting that in. The little disagreements was about Ark, not creature. That was my bad.

[Zoomie8432]

Creature is a good townread to me for now, however I am a bit weary either way with that meta you mentioned.

[Alexcellent]

How am I leaving options open? Yes, I'm unsure of my reads, does that not happen to you?

I don't think that my reads are shaky. And I think that it's fine to have a few shaky reads, not all of them need to be rock solid. Because most of my reads were solid, but when I have 5 people who I'm thinking are town, I don't need to have a super clear read on all of them.

I don't understand, are you sure of your reads or unsure of your reads? Which of your reads are solid and which ones are not? Can you see how your posts are kind of coming off a bit all over the place?

As for Arkias, I initially didn't really like him due to his posting style and also 47 had felt a bit weird to me. Mostly because I didn't really think that putting TW to L-1 was really relevant in any way and I also didn't see what he disliked over Uncrowned. Also, I was sort of floating the idea of him and TW being scum together but I don't really think that's likely anymore.

But weren't you also town reading The Worst?

[Alexcellent]

ditto
i don't feel like nacl is really doing anything towny

Do you find that they are doing anything inherently scummy or just not actively doing anything townie?

[the worst]

hmm
more the latter

the way they're approaching the game makes it hard to be like "this person is definitely {towny/scummy}"; he has a lot of opinions, i just kinda find a lot of his explanations pretty disingenuous and kinda fake-looking

[LoserdudeOG]

Hey yall sorry for the absence. I'd like to formally state

intent to hammer Nacl

, I am content with waiting until the end of the day to do so. There is a large post coming after this, mainly answering questions that have been asked of me.

[LoserdudeOG]

Well, I did give my reasoning for why my vote's on you. And that's mostly it, I guess. I don't feel super confident that I caught you as scum, but I feel fairly confident in my townreads despite the early stage, so it's more of a process of elimination at this point.

Also, this sounds super sketchy, now that I understand it.

Just reread a bunch and my townreads are Creature, TW and Ldog

Why are you referring to yourself in 3rd person? Why are you saying you have a townread on yourself?

In my last game I thought the same. Someone who I was confident was scum did this (except he would do it like "

insert name here

(duh)". I thought this was scummy until I not only noticed other people doing it, but it was explained that if you DONT do this its kinda scummier. Why would I not include myself in my own town read? It also helps me_the_player keep track of how many overall town and scum im reading and how the numbers/relationships match up.

I'll accept that youre confident in your town reads and the only thing thats left is me, but you're wrong.

I've never heard of something like this before. Could you link me to a previous post as an example?

Here is the general convo

Let's go through this

Moonchild: Claimed to go through other games on the site, 135. With this in mind, they must be treated as a more advanced player than a complete newbie, as they claimed it.

Jake: Locktown. 100%.

Sauce: "They" could also refer to a person. And it seems like in 46, that is exactly what they were referring to.

Jocus: Death Tunneling because I asked questions to (unknowingly) get us out of RVS is a pro-town move? No. It is not.

Yimmy: I think Yimmy was defending me as either a push against Jocus, pocketing, or defending me. Maybe a combo of them.

Dunnstral: I agree with this. Dunnstral RVS'd Moonchild then basically left. Their entire ISO is 3 posts long.

ETLies: Not much to say about this. This are a Semi-Exp player. I'll probably do an analysis of any scum games they have vs Town, and compare it with this one.

LDude: This does know I'll flip town, and when I do, ETLies will most likely flip town too. This is a case of TMI. This also had an opportunistic vote on me

Pyro: Overall, it took awhile and I wish there was more, but I do love the effort into this ISO list. I do agree with some parts, but I do disagree with others.

I am going to keep my vote on Jake for now because, as its been pointed out by several people, he has been screaming for people to add content, while putting out minimal content himself. The fact that he reads himself as locktown while seeing many of us doubt him and state our doubts, as well as what we need from him to quell those doubts seems arrogant.

@LoserdudeOG what significance does it have that I say that I'm lock town? In my eyes, I am the most confirmed person as town. Scum reading me because I know that I'm town is, at best, disingenuous and at worst, outright deceitful.

After this most of the people giving their reads out would include themselves in their town reads. Also in our current game TW does this much more charmingly:

Thomth - spoken about this a fair bit

geraintm - gerain is a bit of a wildcard; don't think he's exhibited a lot of things which are necessarily towny/difficult for scum to fake, but I feel like his approach to the game has been fairly earnest. he doesn't look like he's playing a manipulative gameplan, just kinda doing his thing.

LoserdudeOG - I actually like LDoG a fair bit - if anyone wants a case on this I'll boot up the pc

Uncrowned - just probably town

Zoomie8432 faüstiv - :shrug:

Arkias - I think Ark posts reasonably well under pressure but in retrospect I think they're actually posting to end the pressuring engagements; when left to their own devices they are kinda scummy and I guess I've kinda pressed them to answer a few things which pinged me most recently

the worst - too cute to be scum
Creature - should not be anyone's toptown read but has dropped some minor creature towntells. the meta of "creature who posts is town" is about 12-18 months outdated and you actually need to analyse his content now. but hey in a vacuum I'm kinda leaning town

NaCl - I think his reads are kinda consensusy; it feels like he's kinda posting to be running with the pack but when he actually tries to explain original thoughts I don't really buy the thought process

Can't help but notice that you didn't have an issue with TW doing this...?

Okay, Tomths final posts made me get some slight town reads from him, although at the same time I didn’t like how he was playing the “middle of the road” game. That plus the self deprication really made it look like he was going for LAMIST. Atm I’m doubting if that means he’s scum or not, could be his playstyle. Sad to see him go .

Because of my doubts of Tomth I’m leaning more towards voting Arkais or Nacl. Gonna keep my vote here until someone replaces Tomth. If you’d like explanations or quotes lmk but they’ll probably come a lil bit later in the day.

Welcome Zoomie! I have a much better first impression about you than I did your predecessor. You’re entrance slightly reassured that my read on Faust was correct. Can’t wait to see what TW gets out of you

Yo Ldog, why keep your vote parked on someone you're getting town reads from when you're leaning more towards Arkias/NaCL? Also why are you leaning towards Arkias/NaCL?

I wanted at the time to switch my vote to Nacl or Arkais, but I didn't have the time to explain my reasoning, and wanted to wait to switch my vote until I could properly explain myself.

That wasn't as many questions as I had thought, but there you have it.

Right now my town group is Ldog, Alexcellent, TW, Uncrowned and Creature.
Null is Zoomie, I'm fairly certain the bad taste in my mouth is due to his poor grammar, and posts that don't contribute a whole lot, but I have the same vibe from him that I do from Faustiv, which is null.
Getting a slight scumread on gerain, but that is mostly due to inactivity.
Getting high scum vibes from Arkais and Nacl, could see them as a scum team due to Nacl defending Arkais, but I also feel scum would throw their buddy under the bus by now? maybe? idk...
Definitely one of them is scum though.

[geraintm]

Getting high scum vibes from Arkais and Nacl, could see them as a scum team due to Nacl defending Arkais, but I also feel scum would throw their buddy under the bus by now? maybe? idk...

There should never be a day one where mafia feels the need to through their partner under the bus. It doesn't clear them or anyhting, as there are 5 people on the wagon. when it is 2 or 3 then year it can help, but now with so much noise, no one will notice and too many people can also pull the same trick.

[geraintm]

Ok, i've goen through Nacl's posts as they are so close to getting lynched.
I don't see any strong reason to think they are mafia. to me, none of their posts seem expecialyl bad.
I don't think we have caught scum, i think they'd be a stronger counter wagon going on trying to save them if we had. I am not going to vote for them.

[LoserdudeOG]

Ok, i've goen through Nacl's posts as they are so close to getting lynched.
I don't see any strong reason to think they are mafia. to me, none of their posts seem expecialyl bad.
I don't think we have caught scum, i think they'd be a stronger counter wagon going on trying to save them if we had. I am not going to vote for them.

So youre going to keep your vote on Alex? I have to admit Tomths later posts definitely swayed me on his alignment and Alexcellent coming in only reassured this (and reassured my scum read on Nacl)

If you’re not reading Nacl as scum who do you read?

[LoserdudeOG]

Ok, i've goen through Nacl's posts as they are so close to getting lynched.
I don't see any strong reason to think they are mafia. to me, none of their posts seem expecialyl bad.
I don't think we have caught scum, i think they'd be a stronger counter wagon going on trying to save them if we had. I am not going to vote for them.

I have to admit this post does not help my read on you

at all

[NaCl]

Okay, so there's intent to hammer?

Fine, I'm the FN.

[NaCl]

@Ldog

The context in which you were referring to yourself in 3rd person is different from your examples. That was more in a friendly/non-serious way, when they're making a list of their opinions on everyone. But when you're only talking about a subset of people, I've never seen anyone go refer to themselves like that.