A lot of things seem to not be too overpowered based solely on the fact that there’s 45 players. It’s kind of hard to grasp. Nothing is too crazy.
I don’t mind the lack of many scum in neighborhoods. Neighborhood assumption is a poor town move, and if they can get past that, it empowers town who can successfully read each other.
I’m going to look over it more tomorrow. Looking at all of it is a lot. I might need to draw it out on a piece of paper to visualize it.
I'm thinking I was expecting to review an 18ish player game, not 45, so it's taking some time for me to look at all the interactions (w/up to 4 kills per night). Ultimately, this is going to be hard to get the balance just right so priority is normality > best we can do w/balance.
In post 25, Flavor Leaf wrote:I might need to draw it out on a piece of paper to visualize it.
This is actually what I'm in the process of doing
What makes this a semi-open?
What are you trying to accomplish by making your roleblockers unable to be blocked? Solve roleblocker interaction issues?
I thought that when you put the faction ratios that made it Semi-Closed.
I was told like 4 years ago to make the RBs unable to be role-blocked. Tbh I don't entirely remember the reason for it. Would it be better to make them blockable?
In post 27, Wake1 wrote:I was told like 4 years ago to make the RBs unable to be role-blocked. Tbh I don't entirely remember the reason for it. Would it be better to make them blockable?
That's why I wanted to understand your intent. If it's just to solve RB/RB or RB/JK interactions, I think there's a better way to do it by defining priority in your ruleset rather than adding the positives of acestic to the RB without the potential negatives. Or, just make the RBs ascetic
If you use Wake's version of NAR, then the RB blocks the JK meaning the JK doesn't act. RB gets vigged. Tracker would see the RB visit the JK. The JK does not visit anyone since it doesn't act. The vig visits the RB.
Semi-closed isn't a term afaik; semi-open means typically either that the setup is one of a number of publicly possible setups, or that the possible roles in the game are chosen from a relatively small public list. Making the ratio of players in different alignments public info is perfectly fine, though does not make the game semi-open.
Also FYI no hydras is required of all normals now so needn't be listed.
I'm pretty okay with the setup. I can't comment much on the balance because... it's 45 players. Rules seem normal, and the setup is normal. The one suggestion I have regarding the rules is to drop the 3 prods = force replacement clause because finding replacements for a 45p game will be likely be difficult. Most people who don't care about the game will not return after 24 hours; the ones who get prodded a lot tend to be the ones with real life issues that interfere with playing mafia.
Just to be clear, PenguinPower is the only one who can officially pass the setup. That being said, I think going ahead with role pms may be a good idea.
Agree with FL and Ircher re: balance/swing given the size, but I think it's reasonable enough based on what interactions I could put together. Roles and ruleset look normal.
Go ahead and draft the role PMs, and once we've had a chance to review those for normality, I will pass.
Once every odd-numbered Night you may investigate one player to learn their alignment. The results you may receive are "Guilty," Innocent," and "No Result."
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
02)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Odd-Night Doctor
.
Abilities:
Once every odd-numbered Night you may protect one player from one kill attempt only. If your target is targeted by a Strongman your target will die.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
03)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Announcing Odd-Night Motion Detector
.
Abilities:
Once every odd-numbered Night you can target a player at Night and learn if any actions were performed by or on that player, but not what the actions were or who else they involved.
Announcing:
When acting, whatever player you target will be informed that your role targeted them. For instance, if an announcing doctor targeted player X, player X would receive a message saying "You were targeted by a doctor ability during the night."
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
04)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Novice Tracker/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
Once each Night you can target a player at Night and learn who, if anybody, that player targeted the same night (but not the action the player performed). If that player did not target anyone, the Tracker receives a result of "did not target anyone."
Novice:
A role modifier that doesn't allow power roles to use their ability Night 1/Day 1.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
05)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Loud Bodyguard
.
Abilities:
You can target a player each Night to protect them. However, if the protected player is supposed to be killed, the Bodyguard is killed instead ("taking the bullet" for them, as it were).
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
06)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Novice Voyeur/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
You can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (protection, investigation, etc), but not who did it.
Novice:
A role modifier that doesn't allow power roles to use their ability Night 1/Day 1.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
07)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Odd-Night Watcher
.
Abilities:
You can target a player each odd-numbered Night and learn who, if anybody, targeted that player the same Night (but not what actions were performed on that player).
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
08)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Follower/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
You can target a player each even-numbered Night and learn what form of action they took that Night (investigation, protection, killing, etc), but not who they targeted.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
09)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Jailkeeper
.
Abilities:
Every even-numbered Night you can target and protect one player from all kill attempts, but also role-block that player.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
10)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Odd-Night Babysitter
.
Abilities:
Every odd-numbered Night you can target a player to protect them. However, if the Babysitter is killed that night, both the Babysitter and its target will die.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
11)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Neapolitan/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
You can check one player each even-numbered Night to see whether or not they are a Vanilla Townie.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
12)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Loud Gunsmith/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
You can target a player at Night to learn if they have a gun in flavor. Members of the Mafia (that are not Doctors), Cops, FBI Agents, Vigilantes, other Gunsmiths, Paranoid Gun Owners, etc. all have guns in traditional flavor. Notably, Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns.
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
15)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Vengeful Citizen
.
Abilities:
A Vengeful player is a one that, when lynched, is awarded the ability to kill any other player as they die.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
16)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Mailman
.
Abilities:
Each Night you can send a message to one other player at Night, via the moderator. Mailman messages should be formatted in such a way as to make it clear that the message is not mod-confirmed information. However, the author should not be confirmed by the moderator either (it's legal for a player to claim an identity in the message, but also to lie about their identity in the message).
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
17)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Loud Traffic Analyst
.
Abilities:
Every even-numbered Night you can choose a player, and the analyst will learn whether or not there are any players that that player can legally communicate with outside the game thread. (The identity of the people that the target can communicate with is not learned, nor is the content of the communications.)
Note that merely having access to a private topic is not necessarily enough to be able to communicate; there will have to be a second living player in the private topic in question to communicate with. In general, the role will give a "can communicate" result on a player who shares a private topic with another living player, and also on roles that can use active roles to relay messages via the moderator (such as Mailman and Captain); and a "cannot communicate" result on anyone else.
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
18)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Loud Town Roleblocker Miller/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
Each night you can choose one player to block from performing his or her night action. The target's night action will not be performed -- that is, the Roleblocker blocks the target's role from working.
Miller:
You the player will passively return an unfavorable result (i.e. Guilty) if investigated by a Cop.
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
19)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
1-Shot Bulletproof Citizen
.
Abilities:
Only once, during any Night, you will be prevented from one kill attempt. You will not be informed of surviving a kill attempt. You can be killed by a "Strongman" role if one exists.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
20)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Backup Doctor/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
If a Doctor role is killed, you will be granted the Doctor ability, along with any modifiers that Doctor had (if one exists). You will not be informed of who the past Doctor protected, if any.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
22)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Backup Cop
.
Abilities:
If a Cop role is killed, you will be granted the Cop ability, along with any modifiers that Cop had (if one exists). You will not be informed of any results that Cop may have had.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
23)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Vigilante
.
Abilities:
Every even-numbered Night you may target one player to kill.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
24)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Odd-Night Vigilante/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
Every odd-numbered Night you may target one player to kill.
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
25)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Even-Night Cop/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
Once every even-numbered Night you may investigate one player to learn their alignment. The results you may receive are "Guilty," Innocent," and "No Result."
You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.
[/area]
33)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Purple Ascetic Bulletproof Serial Killer
.
Abilities:
Each Night you may target one player to kill.
Ascetic:
You cannot be targeted by any abilities.
Bulletproof:
You cannot be killed by any kill attempts.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction number equals the number of living Town members.
[/area]
34)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Red Mafia Ascetic Mailman
.
Abilities:
Each Night you can send a message to one other player at Night, via the moderator. Mailman messages should be formatted in such a way as to make it clear that the message is not mod-confirmed information. However, the author should not be confirmed by the moderator either (it's legal for a player to claim an identity in the message, but also to lie about their identity in the message).
Ascetic:
You cannot be targeted by any abilities. You can still be targeted by kill attempts.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
35)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Red Mafia Loud Rolecop
.
Abilities:
You can target a player each Night to learn its role, e.g. "Cop", "Doctor", "Roleblocker", etc. There is no indication of the target's alignment; if a Mafia Goon or Vanilla Townie is investigated, they return "Vanilla".
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
37)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Red Mafia Odd-Night Roleblocker/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
Each odd-numbered night you can choose one player to block from performing his or her night action. The target's night action will not be performed -- that is, the Roleblocker blocks the target's role from working.
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
39)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Red Mafia Ninja
.
Abilities:
Ninja actions cannot be seen performing actions by action-investigative roles (e.g. Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, and Motion Detector); all these roles return results as though the Ninja action had not occurred at all. Roles that do not investigate actions, such as Roleblocker, can interact with Ninja actions as normal.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town factions have been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
40)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Blue Mafia Odd-Night Jailkeeper
.
Abilities:
Every odd-numbered Night you can target and protect one player from all kill attempts, but also role-block that player.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town faction has been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
41)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Blue Mafia Loud Psychologist/Neighbor
.
Abilities:
You can investigate one player for unused kills each night. Only three results can be obtained from this investigation: Negative, Positive, or no result. This investigation resolves after any killing abilities in the Night phase.
- A negative result is returned from players that are unable to actively kill another player, or on a player that has already killed.
- A positive result is returned from players that can choose to kill, but have not done so.
- The "no result" result is returned as a result of the action failing as a consequence of another role (e.g. a Roleblocker or Ascetic) interfering with it.
Loud:
The Loud modifier makes it so if Player A targets Player B at night, Player B will be informed that he/she was targeted by Player A but not what action was taken. For example, if Player A was a Loud Cop and used it on Player B, Player B would be notified that he/she was targeted by Player A, but not that he/she used cop.
You win when the opposing anti-Town faction has been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
42)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Blue Mafia Announcing Vanilla Cop
.
Abilities:
Each Night you can selet one player and learn if they are Vanilla or not. "Vanilla" results are given for any role that doesn't have any individual powers (e.g., Vanilla Townie, Mafia Goon, a Serial Killer with no other powers); "Not Vanilla" results are given on all others.
Announcing:
When acting, whatever player you target will be informed that your role targeted them. For instance, if an announcing doctor targeted player X, player X would receive a message saying "You were targeted by a doctor ability during the night". It should not explicitly state the entire role, only the ability that was used (so the message shouldn't be "you were targeted by an announcing doctor"). If an announcing mafia made a kill and their target survived, the target would be told "You were targeted by the mafia kill during the night". This is a direct complement to the existing Loud, which informs a player of a player that targeted them, but not what role.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town faction has been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
[/area]
43)
Welcome,
[Player Name]
. You are a
Blue Mafia Even-Night Roleblocker
.
Abilities:
Each even-numbered night you can choose one player to block from performing his or her night action. The target's night action will not be performed -- that is, the Roleblocker blocks the target's role from working.
Neighborhood:
-
Win condition:
You win when the opposing anti-Town faction has been eliminated, and your faction members equal or exceed the number of living Town members.
What happens if both the Even Night Doctor and Odd Night Doctor die in the same night? (Also, I'm not sure what the current rules regarding backups and modifiers is.)
I don't think it's normal to include the "Neighborhood" line in everyone's role pm. It basically informs everyone that at least one neighborhood exists. That being said, I think it may be okay for you to announce such (that there is at least one neighborhood in the game) in your ruleset in which case you can keep the role pms as-is.
The town win condition is non-standard. Town wins when, "You win if all threats to the town are eliminated, and at least one town-aligned player is still alive."
I might need to draw it out on a piece of paper to visualize it.
