Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Menalque]

Are we sure that Pret was a scum kill though? Because Salamence was mostly townread from what I remember so I think scum was more likely to kill him.

Interesting. You think that Boon was a vig shot because Salamence was the scum kill?

Possibly, but probabaly unlikely with how little town guns there are

Yeah but this probably implies a scum cross-shot unless scum chose to stack shots for late game

[Something_Smart]

Possibly, but probabaly unlikely with how little town guns there are

Please expand on this, as much as you can.

I'm not trying to needle you for a contradiction or anything, I just want to hear your thoughts.

[Datisi]

Hah, it actually read to me as a fake ~townslip~

[AaronFrost]

I didn't forget that scum could pick guns. I guess for a hot minute I thought scum could only kill if they had guns.

[Menalque]

@dats what do you think about the pret kill?

[DogWatch]

Hah, it actually read to me as a fake ~townslip~

that's why I try really hard not to read too much into slips of any nature.. but it is something I picked up on regardless

[Datisi]

Hmm, I was waiting for you to ask that. Not much.

[AaronFrost]

Possibly, but probabaly unlikely with how little town guns there are

Please expand on this, as much as you can.

I'm not trying to needle you for a contradiction or anything, I just want to hear your thoughts.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what warranted killing Pret and whether it was a town kill or a scum kill.

Dogwatch
Iconeum
DrDolittle
alimdia
Texcat
AaronFrost

He was scumreading Datisi towards the end of yesterday and then brought these names up as potential partners.

[AaronFrost]

Yeah now that I think about it both kills were probably scum kills.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: DogWatch

The transition to the Creature vote felt forced to me, like scum finally deciding to hop onto a mislynch

[DogWatch]

VOTE: DogWatch

The transition to the Creature vote felt forced to me, like scum finally deciding to hop onto a mislynch

I don't need to force a vote on someone I've been scumreading since early game, GL.

[GuiltyLion]

That's my point though, you claimed to be scumreading him the whole game yet were bizarrely reluctant to actually join his wagon once it took off

[GuiltyLion]

My problem right now is that my two top scum reads don't make much sense together. GL and Creature BOTH being scum seems really unlikely considering how fast they jumped the amrun wagon one after the other, and I know they're both better players than to do something that sloppy and obvious if the efforts were scum-coordinated.

SCUM with Creature. Maybe scum regardless.

I doubt you have little reason to not be voting creature right now since its the stronger read. And I doubt there has been anything that would make GL worse than creature.

[DogWatch]

I explained my hesitancy to vote him at the time, and I also explained why I eventually moved from you to him, so I don't see why you find anything about it 'forced.'

[DogWatch]

I also think it's a pretty comical accusation from someone who jumped on the amrun wagon the way you did.

[Iconeum]

vla weekend

[GuiltyLion]

I explained my hesitancy to vote him at the time, and I also explained why I eventually moved from you to him, so I don't see why you find anything about it 'forced.'

This is like, my entire point though. You made very sure to explain to us throughout that you were scumreading Creature. Then when a wagon started on him, you made very sure to explain to us that you were not sure what to do. Then when you voted him, you made very sure to tell us why you were finally voting him. It reads like a mechanical and crafted/calculated scum trajectory, not organic town doing shit to try to generate information.

I also think it's a pretty comical accusation from someone who jumped on the amrun wagon the way you did.

"comical", why use that word instead of something that might describe my alignment? You're more focused on discrediting the content of what I'm saying than evaluating me. And are we really still talking about that damn amrun vote when there's been probably 1000 posts since then?

[GuiltyLion]

it's also just kinda ridiculous to compare the two. My Amrun vote received flack because it was barely explained and I spent most of my time calling out another player. I was accused of opportunistically sheeping.

Here, I am accusing you of having

all the reasons in the world

to vote Creature, yet it still took you a long time to do it and you seemed very self-conscious about what might happen when you do.

It's two different behaviors and yours is the more scum-indicative one

[DogWatch]

This is like, my entire point though. You made very sure to explain to us throughout that you were scumreading Creature. Then when a wagon started on him, you made very sure to explain to us that you were not sure what to do. Then when you voted him, you made very sure to tell us why you were finally voting him. It reads like a mechanical and crafted/calculated scum trajectory, not organic town doing shit to try to generate information.

Because one of the criticisms of this game was that few people were explaining their votes, so it made sense to do that. I just think it's good to explain your thought process when you vote.

"comical", why use that word instead of something that might describe my alignment? You're more focused on discrediting the content of what I'm saying than evaluating me. And are we really still talking about that damn amrun vote when there's been probably 1000 posts since then?

I can't just state what I think? It struck me as funny, that's all. And I don't think your vote is AI, so there's no reason to describe your alignment in relation to it.

[DogWatch]

Here, I am accusing you of having

all the reasons in the world

to vote Creature, yet it still took you a long time to do it and you seemed very self-conscious about what might happen when you do.

Did you not have very similar situation with alimdia when you voted amrun? I don't think these circumstances are as different as you think.

[GuiltyLion]

Did you not have very similar situation with alimdia when you voted amrun? I don't think these circumstances are as different as you think.

It would have been similar if
- I stated I was scumreading alimdia throughout the game, similar to how I had (I later changed my mind but that's kinda irrelevant to this)
- Menalque or some other person started an alimdia wagon and it got 3-4 votes
- I didn't vote alimdia and made a post declaring how unsure I was about moving my vote, despite the fact that I had proclaimed a strong scumread on him earlier in the game
- I waited until basically a day before deadline before finally voting alimdia
- Alimdia flipped town

[GuiltyLion]

like I would have less of a problem with you if you had hopped on Creature immediately. Are you understanding that?

[DogWatch]

Fair enough, they're not so similar really. But I disagree about being mechanical in any way, it could be that we just think things through differently or articulate them in different ways. I notice your posts lean more on the side of stream of consciousness.

[DogWatch]

like I would have less of a problem with you if you had hopped on Creature immediately. Are you understanding that?

I do, but since my vote was on you, you naturally would

[GuiltyLion]

how about we talk about who you think might be scum on the Creature wagon if it's not you? I think at least one scum definitely voted him at some point, more likely towards the end of the day, and I'm curious who you think that would be if it's not you